I wanted to bring this up following the negative stigma.
I've been looking into the whole "popcorn lung" issue and a couple things seem to keep coming up. A lot of red tape screaming "ITS DANGEROUS, YOU can get IRREVERSIBLE lung damage!" But from what I've seen, cigarettes have 10x(at least) the amount in any ejuice. Coupled with the difference between the incident where the popcorn factory workers were constantly in a saturated area containing diacetyl in the air vs having a small amount in ejuice for flavoring has me questioning. I want to be safe. But DEAR LORD do I miss the creamy, buttery, milky flavors DONE RIGHT. I've decided to get into DIY and will be able to make my own mixes. But I want to know the risks. Shout out the OGs "mother's milk" and "moustache milk".
I'd like to welcome anyone that knows anything on the topic so we can squash the scare tactics for newcomers and mixers alike.
I have sources that state that the popcorn workers were in an area with "4-13 million particles per cubic foot"(why did they not report in terms of ppm...). Also "cigarettes have ~133 micrograms per cigarette"(paraphrasing from memory on this one) And "Vape juice on average has 9 micrograms of diacetyl"
I will include the sources in a little bit when I have a moment to edit this post.
Tldr; There's a negative stigma around diacetyl, but I'm not convinced. if there is 1% in a flavoring concentrate, is that per the bottle or per ml of said bottle? How do I verify? And are these 3 ingredients truly as dangerous as they're reported to be?
Edit: to everyone that comes to this post whether looking for answers or giving them, please note that this is not FOR or AGAINST the flavor enhancers mentioned above. This is solely to share the information we've each collected on the topic. I don't want to see anyone down voted to hell for having an opinion. Don't be sheeple.
We have no evidence of them being harmful in the quantities used in vaping.
Are they dangerous? Sure. But so is water.
I've been vaping liquids with DAAP for many years at this point and I personally don't have any plans to stop. But that is my personal call, and my own risk determination.
There isn't enough research being done on the matter, and we don't know the long term effects of inhaling any of this stuff - You decide for yourself what you're comfortable with, and what you're not.
Personally I'm not comfortable with oils, fructose and corn syrup - I use https://safety.diyejuice.org to try and keep track of what to avoid
Also worth noting is that not only is it true that cigarettes contain more diacetyl than a vape ever would, there has not ever been a single case of "popcorn lung" attributed to smoking.
I love flavors containing Daap and have been using them for the last 5 years. There's a minimal amount in ejuice compared to smoking cigarettes according to studies and I smoked for 22 years. So I'm pretty sure most damage was done in that time frame. I still haven't gotten popcorn lung in the last 27 years so probably won't in the future lol.
If there is 1% of diacetyl in the concentrate and you use 5% of that concentrate in some juice, that means the total volume of diacetyl is 1% of 5% which is 0.05%.
So let’s say you make 100ml bottle of juice, that means there is .05ml of diacetyl in your 100ml bottle of juice.
> if there is 1% in a flavoring concentrate, is that per the bottle or per ml of said bottle? How do I verify?
You can only calculate the PPM or diluted amounts if the vendor releases the ingrediants and the % amount.
TPA and WonderFlavors are two examples of doing that.
Yes , all that you mention are dangerous with Acetoin being the least dangerous out of the ones mentioned .
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Except for Acetoin all permanently scar lung tissue when inhaled and it doesn't take much. The inhalation of diketones results in the same COPD type illnesses as regular cigarettes .
Diketones permanently damage your lungs when inhaled especially when people vape at super high temperatures and consume lots of juice.
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There's no getting around this except for choosing to vape non diketone flavored juices .
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NEVER EVER ASK ABOUT THE DANGERS OF VAPING ON REDDIT , most of these people are youngsters and know absolutely NOTHING . They try to come across like they know stuff but in reality they don't.
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Many people on this forum know that they do not have the skill to make recipes without lots of diketones that's why 98% of recipes by these folks are loaded with Diketones.
AVOID ALL JUICES CONTAINING DIKETONES AND YOU WILL BE FINE ESPECIALLY OVER THE LONG TERM.
Do you have any recommendations for mixers that don't use diketones?
Do you have any recipe recommendations for creamy flavors that don't use diketones? (more importantly, OG mother's milk clones? Or good strawberry cream flavors)
What would qualify as "vaping at high temperatures?"
How does one vape at lower temperatures?
Edit: spacing / question specifics
It's a personal question, some people are more sensitive and some will have no problems what so ever. Things like popcorn lung is no worry and more have to understand your own body, it honestly boils my blood when vapers have no idea about this information and just say it's flavours.
Unfortunately i am a sensitive one and started diy because of reactions, I quickly learnt the hard way to keep to myself how my body reacts to certain things as vapers are more likely to laugh then support. ( documents doesn't change ones body)
I'd like to hear more from you. I'm all about knowing the risks. Data is data but the uncommon should be kept in mind as well.
You literally cannot inhale enough DAAP just from vaping to get anywhere close to "popcorn lung" levels. The workers in the popcorn factory were breathing air saturated with the stuff for hours on end, as you said. The flavoring companies have to let people know that stuff is in there so they can cover their asses against litigation, but it's a nonissue for vapers.
>f there is 1% in a flavoring concentrate, is that per the bottle or per ml of said bottle?
That's the same thing. A percentage is a percentage.
IMO it's not really something to worry about. I used to smoke cigs too and never worried about it. In fact, the same people who are still smoking - but then turn around and tell me that vaping is much worse than cigarettes because of "whatever" - have no qualms about inhaling much more massive amounts of whatever they're warning me against. Oh, the ignorance and hyposcrisy.
TL;DR: The minute quantities in eliquids are literally dwarfed by the massive amounts of the same and many more substances in cigarettes. Vaping is still 95%~98% less harmful than smoking......
We Humanoids are all different, some People can tolerate it and in some People it triggers allergic Reactions!
How do Risk Evaluation & Science work?
And how Politics need to interpret this Data & Conclusion?