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FAQ Fridays: Recipes. Hardware, and you. How the ravages of time also (often) claim our recipes.
submitted about 4 years ago by Foment_lifeWinner: Best Recipe of 2020 - Gruber Grape

#Introduction:

Okay, so let’s say you see a recipe that looks like it should match your preferred profile perfectly. It’s got a ton of reviews, most of them positive, but you mix it and it’s absolute crap. What gives? Well, there are a lot of things that could be the reason for this. Sometimes you don’t get on with a specific flavor (TFA Vanilla bean ice cream and pepper tasters?) or maybe your palate doesn’t mesh with that of the recipe’s creator. There’s nothing wrong with that, it happens to all of us. However, there is one other thing that’s worth consideration: the age of the recipe.

#Vaping hardware over time

Let's take a quick stroll back in time, shall we? There has been an absolute ton of innovation and iterative improvement in design for vaping devices over time, and worth consideration, not every change has been perfectly smooth. Prior to the advent of the Kangertech Subtank mini what was the most popular atomizer? It was almost certainly the CE4 or CE5 clearomizer. Those are… not especially good devices by modern standards. That Subtank mini didn’t really start to gain any traction until late 2015. Early reviews were in May, and from my recollection, general availability to users wasn’t until much later in the year, around October. That means that we were looking at the real advent of regulated single cell devices in the mainstream around the middle, or tail end, of 2015. Giving recipe creators all of two months to start adjusting their recipes before 2016 began. At that point we began seeing things like Smok’s TFV4. That tank, for those who were adopting single cell devices late in 2015, would have been too power hungry to bother with as it required 40w at the low end and had coil options that reached up to around 130 watts. While it was, absolutely, a huge hit at the time, it didn’t really start seeing a ton of active user adoption until things like the Joyetech Cuboid and Wismec Reuleaux RX 200 were readily available. Those two devices were released around December 2015 and didn’t start shipping from places like Fasttech until March of 2016.

So we are looking at the move from fixed voltage ego threaded devices to 100+ watt tanks in about 6 months time. That is absolutely crazy in hindsight. From 8-15w stick devices, to 100+ watts was almost no time at all in the grand scheme of things. That’s not to say that the tanks that had suddenly taken over the hype machine were, by modern standards, flavor beasts. They were not. We saw yet more considerable upside extracted in device quality over the following year or so. By the middle of 2017 we were looking at devices like the Wotofo Serpent SMM being readily available and the Smok TFV8 baby beast tank having already been on the market for half of a year. That is an insane step up from the relative trash that had been previously available. We also saw the advent of complex coils (beyond round wire and twisted round wire builds) over this same general span of time. “Popular” gear moved from super low power thin round wire vertical coil atomizers with silica wicks to big fat clapton coils in smartly designed airflow atomizers in under 24 months! Sure, stuff like the two post Kennedy had come out all the way back in 2015, but most folks who were getting their feet wet in vaping and DIY weren’t looking at mechanical mods at the time. Anything worth its salt was expensive and even still we weren’t seeing complex coils regularly in use.

That means that recipes from that era, 2014-late 2016/early 2017 are all likely made with devices that do not in any way represent modern vaping technology in mind. Putting aside that we were looking at a considerably lesser number of readily available flavors from a smaller number of vendors, the gear itself evolved very quickly over a fairly short period of time. If you bought one new device per year from 2015 to 2017 you may have gone from rebuilding a protank III to a subtank mini RBA to a Geekvape Griffin RTA with mods to pair with these tanks and never once taken a step toward the higher wattage and/or more flavor focused gear that came out over the same time frame. This would clearly impact how the recipes put out over that time frame would age. Obviously some have aged very well, but many others have undoubtedly aged like milk left out in the sun. When was the last time you tried something from companies like Cosmic Cloud or Space Jam? The recipes that made them popular were designed with things like the CE4 or Protank III in mind and it shows.

That all fails to discuss the massive impact that mesh based atomizers have had on how recipes present themselves in modern devices, but that may be a topic for another post altogether. Suffice it to say, Mesh was the last major “game changer” in direct lung gear that we have seen, and it meaningfully augments how a lot of profiles can, or cannot, be successfully presented on a given atomizer.

#In summation:

All of this is to say, that there are a lot of reasons why older recipes don’t always work in today’s devices. I think it’s truly important to consider the historical perspective though, and what hardware might have been most readily available when those recipes were put together. Things like the Psyclone Hadaly came out in late 2016, those who were serious about “flavor chasing” in 2015 and 2016 had the Praxis Derringer, the Kennedy, the Velocity, or the Tobecco Zorro. We have come a long way in the past 6 years, folks. Honestly, were it not for the advent of pod devices slowing the rate of innovation in the devices we use day to day, it may be that every recipe released from mid 2016 to 2019 may not present well in the “what could have been” world of modern atomizers.

So, I ask you, when you’re considering a new recipe to mix, to put yourself in the rough time frame when the recipe was released. Did we have “modern” gear yet? Was that gear “available” or was it ubiquitous with the vaping landscape? Hopefully this helps, even if ever so slightly, in your search for your next ADV.

If you fancy a look at some past FAQ Fridays posts, and you absolutely should, do so here

If you’d like to join us for a more immediate discussion on various DIY (and most non-DIY topics), I’d love to see you over on the DIY Discord

Comments
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10 points
 
by kuri_sanTouabout 4 years agoDiketones, Schmiketones

Nice write up, fo. I wish you would have posted this last week. I got wrecked last week on ECR for saying 'Nana Cream Clone by fizzmustard was old

8 points
 
by Foment_lifeabout 4 years agoWinner: Best Recipe of 2020 - Gruber Grape

Thanks Kuri!

Honestly I've had the idea to write this for the last year-ish. I just couldn't get out of my own way long enough to write it.

Posts like that are exactly what spurred me on though.

4 points
 
by igrowheathensabout 4 years ago

I am willing to bet I have vaped 10 gallons of that stuff.

5 points
 
by Foment_lifeabout 4 years agoWinner: Best Recipe of 2020 - Gruber Grape

37854.1 mls? even at 120mls per bottle that's just under 315.5 bottles.

6 points
 
by igrowheathensabout 4 years ago

Ok just over 8 gallons.

4 points
 
by Mother_Punkerabout 4 years agoUnsung Hero

Omg 😱those flavour levels tho!

5 points
 
by XtaC23about 4 years ago

Great post. This was actually something I didn't think about when I got into DIY and I ran into some issues lol. This community has been great tho.

5 points
 
by apocalypticdiynewbabout 4 years ago

Awesome write up and really puts diy recipes into perspective. This will definitely help newer mixers or people who haven't been vaping for many years. Man do I remember the Subtank mini and how awesome it was at the time. Still have it in my collection.

4 points
 
by Foment_lifeabout 4 years agoWinner: Best Recipe of 2020 - Gruber Grape

Thanks!

The RBA head can sorta be made to work for loose MTL/RDL now with something like a 2x30/40g fused, but it definitely isn't sitting on top of the pile for rebuildable atties, especially when you consider how annoying it can be to build on that RBA head.

4 points
 
by apocalypticdiynewbabout 4 years ago

Yeah I can see a tiny fused clapton working good in it but not the flavor monster compared to today's standards. That damn rba deck is so flimsy, I somehow broke off the positive post where it threads to the 510 pin in my first one, had to buy a second one lol.

5 points
 
by chudthwackabout 4 years ago

Very interesting post foment. Something that is coming up for me lately is trying to make recipes for a friend who only uses sub-tanks. I don’t know how to adapt recipes so they taste good in her device. I wish there were more consistent methods for doing that. I’m hoping to give her a few bottles for her birthday coming up if anyone has any suggestions for fruit or candy recipes they know that would fit that bill?

Edit: I confused adapting recipes for pods with sub- tanks. I appreciate everyone’s help.

5 points
 
by Foment_lifeabout 4 years agoWinner: Best Recipe of 2020 - Gruber Grape

The real question would be what kind of juice does she normally vape? If she's normally vaping the kind of stuff that's got huge amounts of sweetener to it there's very little you can do, short of adding sweetener to the recipes you're mixing, to dial recipes in for her preferences.

Modern subtanks still lag behind the best rebuildables, but the gap is a lot tighter than it was a couple years back (seriously that TFV4 was godawful when you compared it to any decent RDA available at the time).

Are there any fruits or candies in particular she likes?

8 points
 
by Mother_Punkerabout 4 years agoUnsung Hero

>Modern subtanks still lag behind the best rebuildables

Ergo why I am so fucking annoyed that canada just banned all rebuildables! Honestly. Ahhhhh

4 points
 
by Foment_lifeabout 4 years agoWinner: Best Recipe of 2020 - Gruber Grape

Really?

I had only seen mention of the nic strength constraints.

2 points
 
by bigtidderabout 4 years agoSalty Dog

Seriously, they banned rebuildables too? Glad I ordered 2x Asmodus .Blanks as backups last year....the only color option was gay rainbow but at least I have spare parts now. Also stocked up on parts to build my own regulated squonkers - a couple of DNA 75Cs, 510s, battery sleds, etc.

2 points
 
by chudthwackabout 4 years ago

Yeah that makes perfect sense and adding more sweetener is pretty much all I was coming up with as well. She really likes candies, bubblegum, strawberries, peaches. I’ll find out exactly what she vapes currently so I can be more helpful. I appreciate your answer.

5 points
 
by EdibleMalfunctionabout 4 years agoI found my thrill on Blueberry Hill

What recipes haven't worked in modern day stock coil tanks?

4 points
 
by chudthwackabout 4 years ago

I mean I have given her a bottle of a bubblegum (can’t remember which one it was exactly, but it had a few good reviews and looked good) and the problem is, she never said anything and I doubt she even vaped it because she probably just thought is was lower quality than commercial. I’m just trying to make her something i know will be good. I can see from talking here and with others that I definitely have more research to do. I need to find out exactly what juice she vapes right now. Thanks for commenting.

3 points
 
by kuri_sanTouabout 4 years agoDiketones, Schmiketones

Not sure I understand the dilemma. Why not just follow the recipe?

3 points
 
by chudthwackabout 4 years ago

I guess I’ve just heard that most DIY recipes don’t translate well to sub-tanks because they are so nuanced. I’m seeing that my biggest problem is that I no longer own any devices like that to test on. Writing this I am realizing that it would probably be best to just choose a simple profile I like and go for it.

6 points
 
by kuri_sanTouabout 4 years agoDiketones, Schmiketones

I think they meant they don’t translate well to pods

3 points
 
by Mother_Punkerabout 4 years agoUnsung Hero

Cpl points; pod users typically use higher flavour %ge and more simple pairings compared to rda users. Tho tank users usually use higher flavour than rda as well. So percentage wise you should be ok going from pod to tank. However she might be better with a more complex recipe than you’re used to and also wayyyy more sweetener if she’s used to commercial.
Most of us mixers that mix for commercial gain In any way, have multiple devices we test our recipes in. So if this is something you’re serious about doing, invest in a testing tank and rda.

4 points
 
by Foment_lifeabout 4 years agoWinner: Best Recipe of 2020 - Gruber Grape

ehh, I'd say you don't need to really push percentage a ton higher, just simplify your recipe's concept.

IE: Strawberries and cream works fine. Strawberry compote over sponge cake with a vanilla whipped cream probably doesn't.

3 points
 
by chudthwackabout 4 years ago

Thank you, I appreciate the pointers!

2 points
 
by LilBearLuluabout 4 years ago

Great post. I still mix up some of the old recipes but before I do I read through the comments. A lot of times people will mention in there if they have cut the percentages in half or even 1⁄3 to work on modern devices and I will start with that. There's been a lot of misses but there have been a handful of hits and they're they're still among my daily drivers.

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