With the changes to tobacco laws in the US, I decided it's time to cut the nicotine from my life for good. I'm two years out from my last cigarette, it's time.
Now, the biggest draw for me from vaping hasn't been the nicotine; it's been the throat hit. Everyone says PG produces that throat hit; I never bought it. I've mixed 100% pg juice's for a full year, doesn't feel the same. What DOES feel similar for me is the taste/feel of oxidized nicotine. That harsh pepperiness feels so similar to the throat hit of an actual cigarette to me. So that's what I'm looking for; has anyone ever found a compound/ingredient that can mimic that pepperiness? I've tried malic acid, while it's great in my lemonade mixes, it's not the same. I've tried 100% PG mixes, not the same. Any advice?
Edit: I'm honestly shocked at how many of you, after I explicitly wrote as the first statement in this post that I'm ditching nicotine and looking to MIMIC the taste, suggested I up my nicotine content. Work on your reading guys and gals.
Are you a pepper taster in vanillas by chance?
Aside from that there are plenty of flavours that have harshness to them. Most of us seek to blend those out but I presume that could do it for you perhaps? Try searching the form for harsh concentrates and see what pops up. Off the top of my head I’m thinking FLV persimmon and bubblegum. Oh. Anything spicy cinnamon.
Since taste is subjective you may find what does this for one, will not work for you so you’ll need to play a bit. If you get pepper from TPA vbic, blend that with some harsh fruit and that would do it. I still put a few drops of nic in my juice cuz I find the flavour tastes flat without it.
I actually didn't even know that was a thing. I haven't used any vanilla flavours in 3 or 4 years, so I'll give them a shot.
I also hadn't actually thought of looking for a black pepper flavour though, that's a good idea; I pretty much haven't used anyone but TFA/TPA for the last 8 years, so I'll have a look around at FLV.
Check this out. TFA jalapeño?
Also what about going for the obvious? FA black pepper? I actually just bought some for a chai recipe but haven’t tried it yet.
Read what’s in that additives link above about FA flash. Sounds like just what you’re looking for.
>with some harsh fruit
like what?
Well the fore-mentioned flv persimmon and tpa jalapeño.
Just took a quick scan over my flavour spreadsheet and found some more. TFA tutti frutti. Cap double Apple. INW citrus mix (many citrus in fact) TPA sweet and tart. TFA and cap blueberry. TFA juicy peach & TFA kiwi (both pretty notorious). INW white grapefruit. FA lime Tahiti CP. Everyone has different harshness tolerance so you’ll have to experiment. Push the percentages a bit even.
There’s a melon or two that I stopped using years ago cuz of harshness but can’t recall which cuz it was before I did spread sheets lol.
Most pit fruits really, at higher percentages.
Keep in mind that the harshness of most of these is remedied by either steeping or adding things like triacetin (smooth vape wizard etc). So, 1: don’t mix large batches. SnV is what you’ll wanna do before you steep out the harshness and 2: look for recipes that use things like liquid amber, smooth etc to round the edges and then just omit that. Read and look for recipe notes that talk about ingreds being used to eliminate harshness and follow the clues. You could also try doing a search on here for “harsh”and see what ingreds ppl are finding makes their mix harsh.
Maybe Because u titled it "a bizarre, strange request"from the start,, so of coarse many weren't exactly sure what u were asking lol.If u liked iced juices..Koolada gets peppery above 5% but there's gotta be several concentrates that get that peppery taste..theres probably even tobacco flavored ones but you'd have to dig a bit deeper into this matter.Sounds like a particular cigarette too- not cigarettes in general but as a non smoker im certainly not qualified to answer or help in this matter..i do know every smoker will tell u every tobacco is different in many ways..Good luck
Oxidized peppery nic is the exact taste/feel I'm going for; it's the only thing I've found that feels like an actual cigarette in my throat. But I'm cutting nicotine out fully, so that's not an option, I'm looking for an analogue for that taste/sensation.
How did so many people completely gloss over the very first thing I wrote in this post?
I think you like the harsher throat punch that 12 n 18 mg freebase nic has..like a mtl atomizer.Peppery is different, that's more like one of the flavors added is a bit spicey or too high of a percentage of a particular flav that hasn't steeped yet.If u smoked your looking for harsh throaty hit not peppery.I use salt nice salt n make my own liquid and I can use up to 50 mg- the highest allowed to sell over the shelf( salt is just nic minus the harshness) but sometimes ill add an ingredient or flavor the acidly or pepeppery which sometimes means a bad ingredient or unsteeped or the nic is low grade n spoiled..i think you'd like a punchy throat kick that high mg freebase nic offers that many smokers like..peperry wouldn't be the word ID select its awful
Last year an Italian producer (BlendFEEL) released a new product aimed to substitute nic. This product is named "Zero".
It's basically a solution of piperine, hordenine and ascorbic acid, and this product is intended to be mixed in your e-liquid in stead of a regular nic shot (as it's usual in EU). The piperine - which is the alkaloid responsible for the pungency of black pepper - will cause a hit on the back of your throat that's similar to the one caused by nic.
This "Zero" comes with differente potencies names "Forza", so you can get "Forza 1", "Forza 2" "Forza 3" etc. and you must try to understand which "Forza" is most suitable for you.
I may suggest you to contact the manufacturer directly, hoping someone who speaks English fluently can assist you, and try to get a quotation for getting this product.
Ask them to guide you on which "Forza" could be most suitable for you.
I know few people who tried it, and the feedback is polarized: those who after a while started craving nic and didn't like the effect of "Zero" on the throat (in fact, the hit is similar but not exactly the same as the nic hit), and those who said it's not actually that bad, and it's an interesting solution for those who already are low nic users (1mg or 2mg) and wants to get rid of it for good.
Whatever Juul is using in their formulas. I'd never pay for their overpriced products again, but the throat hit that they've achieved is absolutely perfect in my book.
High Pg, salt nicotine and high coil temp is what they are using pretty much.
>High Pg, salt nicotine and high coil temp
JUUL e-liquid is ~ 70vg / 30pg, and the device is temperature controlled to 420 F, so the throat-hit isn't caused by Pg or high temps. And nicotine benzoate salts aren't great at delivering the kind of throat-hit OP is talking about, so I don't think that's it either.
I think the reason JUUL delivers decent throat-hit, u/ResplendentShade, is: A) the device is specifically tuned to deliver it (wattage, temp, wick & wire; airflow and vaporization chamber); and, B) JUUL salts actually contain a significant freebase fraction. So you get the kick of high-concentration salts with the throat-hit of freebase.
I'm not a fan of JUUL Inc. either. But give the devil its due: JUUL designed a pretty good cigarette substitute there, back when they were Pax Labs.
PS - Re. your other comment about the acids in JUUL possibly being responsible for the throat-hit - ALL nicotine salts are converted from freebase with acids. JUUL and many others use benzoic acid. Other acids can be used, and JUUL apparently tried most of them in their patenting process. But they use benzoic, and there's nothing unique about that.
Ah thanks for all the information, in particular concerning the benzoate salts.
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>A) the device is specifically tuned to deliver it (wattage, temp, wick & wire; airflow and vaporization chamber); and, B) JUUL salts actually contain a significant freebase fraction. So you get the kick of high-concentration salts with the throat-hit of freebase.
Related to point A, I refilled Juul pods for a while with other 50mg nic salt juices and didn't get an even similar throat hit. Related to B I didn't use any freebase nic, but I did try higher PG which helped a bit but still didn't produce the same qualities in the throat hit that Juul has going on. Some day I'll have to experiment with mixing freebase, though.
I remember reading at one point that they used benzoic acid in the process, did some searching and found this bit in an article:
>Unlike the nicotine salts that are found in cigarettes, JuulSalts aren’t made by heat-drying tobacco leaves. Instead, Juul mixes freebase nicotine with an acid, setting off a chemical reaction that produces the salts. Juul uses benzoic acid, though their patent covers a wide range of other acids as well.
Makes me wonder how much that might affect the throat hit.
edit: this site sells Nicotine Benzoate, which is apparently the type of nicotine that Juul uses: https://www.nicselect.com/gb/products/nicotine-salts/
Have you tried Hiliq Nicobacco?
It's not a flavour concentrate, you mix it as you would freebase or salt nicotine. I have only tried a few small testers so far but it definitely gives me the sensation of a cigarette more so than freebase or salts.
https://www.hiliq.com/en/nicobacco-base-100mg
Higher nic level would do it, kind of takes away from the whole no nic thing though. Even CXCT is harsh as hell to me @ 60mg. FA has a black pepper flavor. PGA give a harshness too.
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Why am I getting downvotes for this? Try to help by sharing truths and get downvoted?
Maybe people don't realize this exists? That's the only reason I can think of. https://us.flavourart.com/product/pepper-black-flavor/
in for an answer on this one
i cant even vape some mixes that I actually enjoy the taste of because they use too many smooth flavorings that lack a throat hit
vaping pepper (Flash) feels like it's not a great idea for my lungs, but i'm interested in any other flavorings that are known for being 'harsh'
Tfa swedish fish is a harsh flavor. I am all about throat hit myself. I went 0 nic for about 6 months but missed the throat hit way to much. Started having really bad cravings so I just went back to nic. If you find a really good solution to throat hit please post it .
18mg FreeBase sounds closer to what u want( even tho u insist nice isn't what u need child)..u can say peppery all u want but u admittidly said you were looking for closest thing to a cigarette.Oxidized shot nic is just shot nic.Up the mg with freebase cause peppery oxidized nic tastes nothing like a cigarette but high mg freebase does..i used to smoke too.I was just trying help but u got all defensive n said nobody in the group understood exactly what u were saying so its not just me