So with the looming vape mail ban, I’m beginning to get nervous and want to discuss potential workarounds. I’ve heard that it’s going to be almost impossible to get nic/base/flavorings delivered soon via USPS and FedEx, with UPS expected to follow.
Is this still the case?
Are there any DIY businesses that will allow in person pickups of orders on the west coast? I know River Supply and LNW are on the west coast. I’m just not sure if they allow in store pickups. Hopefully if they don’t, they soon will.
I’m up for a road trip to get my supplies. Do you guys think that this will be a feasible alternative?
Any other workarounds that are in play?
Base and flavorings are not vape products. Those are exempt. Nicotine is a pharma product. Though it could be argued that nicotine base is a Vaping product, no vendors have made any announcements about there being an issue.
I did talk to someone an age ago saying that they were considering changing from a vape supplier to a cake supply shop selling flavours and additives that can be used to make cakes etc but are safe for other uses. Not sure if they actually did it or if it would be an alternative work around
So if you're right then it won't really affect DIY at all, am I right? I have stocked up on flavors, vg. I just haven't bought the nicotine yet and I'd rather not drop a bunch of cash to stock up if I don't need to.
Base and flavorings shouldn't be restricted. They are regularly used in things other than vaping. Nicotine could possibly be an issue, but honestly, the nic tax that has been looming is more concerning. It will put the cost of nic way out of most peoples budget, so shipping nic for many will be moot.
"base" is sold by the gallon every year around halloween as fog juice... Spirit halloween had 20 gallons of VG and 5 gallons of PG on display a few months ago.
Glycerine is used for cooking, making soap, and a bajillion other diy home crafts, and glycol is pretty common in food service.
"Base" is absolutely not gonna go away.
Flavorings are less common, but pretty benign. Could go the way of sudafed where you get put on a list for making cupcakes I guess.
Nicotine is a big deal. Like a really big deal. There's no "public" or "common" justification for buying it, and the vast majority won't give two shits if it gets banned, taxed, hazmatted into oblivion, or whatever else (in truth, I imagine a hefty majority would actively support it). Frankly, I don't understand why the FDA didn't quietly and casually just implement some form of insanely expensive permit requirement for nicotine and let big tobacco just buy the entire vape industry out of existence. Thank God they're incompetent I guess?
Isn't nicotine used in some pesticides? Just spitballing here but I've definitely heard something along those lines.
Yes, but John Q public isn't gonna buy that as a legitimate reason to need nicotine at a consumer level...
The FDA clearly doesn't need science, they just need a majority approval. That's why crazy ass taxes are working, because the public isn't going to tweak over it.
That "we the people" aspect of it :) it's the only reason the FDA hasn't just gone with a straight up "no vaping" approach.
Yes it is,when the TPD came into law in Europe,I spent many boring hours going through the EU laws,and found a loophole where you could purchase nicotine at no more than 72mg without a licence for poisons I think it was,for use in pesticides.
So it would be worth looking through your laws on pesticides,to see if there is a similar loophole there.
So stock up on nic? Got it. I’ve only bought premixed base/nic, so I’m hoping a liter or two of 100mg VG will last me a while, and I’ll make sure to keep it in the freezer.
Im vaping on 2yr old nic right now that I've stored in the freezer and its fine. Still as light colored as the day i bought it. Just make sure to not store it in the plastic bottle they ship it in. I use smaller brown glass bottles i find on Amazon and store them in the freezer. I use the 8oz ones so i can pull them out in batches and keep the rest secure in the freezer as its a terrible idea to allow it to warm up use it and toss it back in the freezer. I leave the bottle im using out at room temperature from that point on. I have enough nicotine for at least 7 years and im told it will store for 10 in the way i do it without much noticable degradation.
I'm mixing out of a bottle of nic I put in the freezer in 2016, and it is crystal clear. No difference in taste, smell, or appearance. I know it's not 10 years, but it proves to me that when stored properly from the very beginning nic base will last quite a while.
I use about a 120ml of 100mg a year. If I buy 2 liters that could last 16 yrs. I could lower my nic dosage and stretch it if need be as well.
I bought 2 liters of 100mg nic base a little prematurely at the beginning of last year, havent been using any flavors just because I've been too lazy to do the shopping.
And I'm only just getting to the bottom of my first 15ml working bottle of the base.
A little bit goes a loooong way.
: |
I'm more worried about hardware.
I hear ya. I’ve just ordered 3 mods, 4 tanks, and 15 packs of coils that I’ll start cleaning and reusing.
I try to clean and reuse my coils, but they always seem to leak really bad after. Other than that, the flavor is always on point.
This sounds crazy and not very well thought out, but what if we start our own "distribution & delivery" service. I don't mind waiting a month if I had to.
This right here.
There's nothing stopping someone from starting a delivery service that exclusively delivers vape products.
But it would take some resources, and jumping through some hoops.
They would have to collect ID at point of delivery.
... And theoretically they would need enough deliveries in one area to make it economically viable.
... And shipping costs would likely be a bit higher than we're used to dealing with...
Someone could potentially make a lot of money doing that, if they set it up right. But it would definitely take some resources to get set up...
Ya awhile back I bought a HUGE supply of nicotine that I and my SO use, and put it in freezer safe amber bottles. In a freezer Nicotine has a 20+ year shelf life. I would suggest picking up the largest amount you can and freezing it for later use. Regardless what happens with the laws you will know that you will always have your nic. Hope you find something that works for you, and wish you the best of luck. Hope you have a great day!! :)
Any recommendations on bottles? Just generic amber glass that seals?
Get the amber bottles with the polycone caps, from what I have read about those bottles the polycone caps have liners that not only seal better, but they can stand up to the cold better (since we are putting these bottles in the freezer).
Hope i wasn't too late with this advice, I didn't see this convo until today.
There will always be a workaround. Thing is we wont know it until we have to find it.
A certain West Coast company ships in non-descript boxes through FedEx. I live in NY and just received another package last week: 2 liters of pre mixed and a ton of flavors. I’m still not done with the product I purchased from Liquid Barn last year, so I think I’m set for a while. Besides, there will always be a way.
Can you throw me a pm? I'm going to look into mixing my own, getting tired of driving out to NH every so often to restock.
I was hoping that it would only create a problem in Nicotine and for some, coils tanks, mods, ect. However, two of my suppliers have responded to me in saying that everything is subject to this ban and they will no longer ship at all. Here is what was sent to me from my main supplier.
Thank you for your message. The vape mail ban includes anything vape-related. This includes Nicotine, VG, PG, Flavored and unflavored E-Juices as well as flavor concentrates, devices and coils. After March 26th we will not be able to ship any of our products.
Thank you and have a great day.
This may get rocky for us unless more people create candy/baking websites that sell only flavorings that are vape safe with links to material safety sheets and express warnings to consumers. The FDA cannot and has never been allowed to regulate DIY food products for personal use. That is why Feinstein went this route to pressure mail regulations with broad scary language with threats of 3 yrs imprisonment. Everyone is scared because the burden of paper work alone means one slip up could rain down fire from ATF.
I am fine with no longer being able to get nicotine. I have weened myself down to 1mg or less and I have 2 liters of 100mg/ml, so like 1ml per 100ml mix. But I cannot imagine going back to the one vape shop in a 3 town radius, and paying 30 dollars for a 30-60 ml juice that may or may not be loaded with sweeteners.
As others have said here, PG, VG, Flavor concentrates all are used in baking, candy making, soaps, and lotions. As long as we are careful in finding sources that are vape safe and keep communities like 99juices.com and e-liquid-recipes.com going, we should be able to keep our hobby and remain safe.
The fuck? Fuck USPS
I think it's more fuck those that we voted for making this decision for USPS.