So I’ve been lurking on these threads for a while now and decided to finally jump in and join. I’m still a pretty new mixer (vaping in general), but I have built up a stash of flavorings and I enjoy it immensely. Unfortunately, I suspect I may have the ultimate TRIFECTA of olfactory/taste issues and was wondering if anyone had any advice on flavorings to try.
For one, I’m a non-strawberry taster. This one I’ve been working on and am feeling a bit better though, as alpine strawberry works wonders for me, especially mixed with some 27 fish, cap sweet strawberry, and a little sucralose. Nice strong strawberry flavor, but man the stuff is crazy expensive. And I have the same issue just on a lesser scale with all fruits, taste good at first but I lose flavor quickly. I can’t get through a tank of any fruit flavor without losing it.
Two, I suspect I’m sensitive to flavorings with DAP. Not at all worried about the health aspect, but many of them taste like hot garbage and plastic to me, it’s horrendous. But there are some DAP containing flavorings that don’t have this very specific and hard to describe taste, so I’m confused. It seems like CAP flavors are the biggest offender, which stinks because most of my heavier creams/custard etc I have right now are CAP. The worst offenders are vanilla custard, NY cheesecake, sugar cookie, and by far the worst is cake batter. Ugh. I have some sugar cookie v2 coming and I’m praying I don’t also fall victim to the barf notes lol. Also have some INW yes we cheesecake and custard coming to see if it’s all the heavy flavorings or mainly CAP. I sadly get the same taste from VBIC though, no pepper, just that same nasty distinct taste. And I have let them all steep for months, and if anything they get worse with time.
Third, I think I may also have problems with vanillin or vanilla notes in general. CAP French vanilla is gross to me, vanilla swirl has weird off notes but still useable in the right recipe, etc. So now I am confused as to whether or not the vanilla is causing my issues, or just flavorings with high levels of DAP, or, god forbid, both. Hard to determine because most of the heavy custard/creams that bother me so much contain both vanilla notes and DAP. TFA Bavarian cream doesn’t have that nasty flavor, but it still doesn’t taste good or even like a cream to me as a stand-alone, but strangely I seem to be able to mix with it anyway and still get some richness from it. Outside of that one only the much lighter cream/dairy/marshmallow I have so far seem to work ok for me which is a damn shame. I would give anything to taste custard or cheesecake like most other people seem to.
So any advice or direction here would be greatly appreciated, as I really enjoy mixing but that many taste issues is extremely limiting. So far the only juices I’ve made that I feel I can taste very well, accurately, and they don’t fade are some cereals, bakeries like banana nut bread, RY4 recipes, things heavy in flavors like FLV milk and honey, pistachio, etc. Sorry this got longer than intended.
> CAP French vanilla is gross to me, vanilla swirl has weird off notes but still useable
It's not just you...that's exactly how I'd describe those two flavors too.
For a clean cream flavor, try FLV Cream and FA Fresh Cream.
For authentic vanilla, try TFA Madagascar Vanilla Bourbon.
Thanks. I have fa fresh cream and agree, I like that one. I’ll have to get some flv cream. I’m gonna order some Madagascar vanilla, that gives me a little hope. There are def some creams I can do without a problem and I’m thankful for that, I just really want to play more with custards and cheesecakes, and the really heavy rich stuff. Just haven’t found any that work so far.
FW Bavarian Cream is very forgiving IMO. Sweet and Creamy
I’ve had a lot of success mixing with Bavarian cream for sure, but really only to give that little impression of rich heaviness. It is still only a hint of it to me, and the actual flavor is pretty much nonexistent in my mixes and downright weird as a stand-alone, especially if I go higher than 5%.
I can't help I'm afraid, but maybe my experiences can maybe offer some perspective. Like you I can't taste strawberry (I must give Alpine SB a go but if it doesn't work that's an expensive mistake), and I also lose taste from fruit mixes pretty quickly. Cap French Vanilla, VC1, Cake Batter, Sugar Cookie - all disgusting to me. Likewise TPA Vanillas and even Holy Vanilla (soap). However, I don't think it's DAAP causing the issue, just those company's flavour formulations. FA Cust Prem and LB VIC taste GREAT to me and they're loaded with DAAP. INW and FA Vanillas are very pleasant and no off tastes.
I can't taste Pistachio AT ALL, VTA Golden Syrup reeks of cat's piss, DDL's and Bav Creams are just 'soggy cardboard', FA Bilberry literally makes me gag - the list goes on. The conclusion I've come to is that A: my palate is overly sensitive to some compounds and simply unable to 'read' some others, and B: some flavour companies use their own 'signature' mixes of flavour compounds across their range, and if you don't get on with those compounds, well, you're screwed!
So what I'm saying is that it may not be a sensitivity to DAAP, but perhaps you just don't get on with whatever's in Cap French Vanilla etc. Give some other vanillas a go. I'm sure people far more experienced and knowledgeable than I am will be along to offer real advice.
Like I said, I'm no help - but you're not alone!
No that’s actually pretty helpful, thank you! And yeah, I think you may be right about signature mixes with certain companies, and CAP seems to be a big offender for me, at least with creams. I love a ton of CAP fruits so from now on I will stay on that side of things if I order from them. Like I said the only non-cap so far I’ve gotten that very particular taste from is VBIC, but most of the really heavy stuff I’ve tried is from cap so I guess I need to just keep ordering and testing. This is gonna get expensive.🤣
And I felt the same way about alpine, it is certainly pricey if it ends up not working, and I’ve read both ways for people with strawberry issues. For me, I’m extremely glad I bit the bullet and ordered it, but I know how disappointed I would be if it didn’t work out. The suggestion of mixing it with 27 fish I got from someone and that was immensely helpful. It really brought that strawberry flavor out and gave it some real body that helps last through the whole vape.
Man this won't help you at all...but I wanted you to know you aren't alone lol. Creams and custards make me gag. Like involuntary hard af gag. It's awful. Even if they don't even taste horrible. It's just SOMETHING about that type of flavoring...
Sorry to hear you suffer from a similar disfunction...
This is me with strawberry... used to love in 5 years ago. Now the second I take a hit, my stomach is turning.
Gah I really hope I don't get this way with fruits too!
There's this one mango cream juice that Twist makes. I love mango. But nope. This juice made me full on hug the toilet bowl sick. Now when I think about mango ejuice, it's like remembering a few baddd nights back in my college days...
Damn. Maybe it just is what it is. I’m still in denial, hoping I can find an alternative that works. It might be a lost cause lol.
I just ordered some whipped cream and some marshmallow to see if I can handle them. I'm pretty new to diy juice and have only really messed with straight fruits because frankly, I'm fucking terrified of creams and custards!
Whenever I would buy commercial juice I always only cared to make sure there was 0 cream flavor. Sometimes they'd like to sneak that shit in there.
Just throwing it out there, for creams and dairy I can do sweet cream (cap and tfa), merengue, milk and honey (flv), whipped cream (tfa), dairy/milk (tfa), marshmallow (tfa), and fresh cream (fa) all just fine, no weirdness at all so maybe those will be ok options for you too. Vienna cream gives me that nasty taste, which once again makes me wonder if it’s more of a vanilla issue because I think it has strong vanilla notes?
Yeah it makes me question the DAP thing, since like a said there are some I can do without getting that distinct nasty flavor. Golden butter is a good example, doesnt really taste “buttery” to me and I suspect I’m not getting the intended flavor from it, but there’s NONE of that specific nasty taste and I damn well know that one is loaded with DAP. It has to be lol.
Yeah it does, it has the caution label on it lol.
That's so weird that one works for you.
I hate to think I'm gonna have to dry a zillion flavors and gag through em all to find what's decent.
From what I'm reading, my experiences and issues are very similar to yours. I started DIY early in my vaping as well. I don't think its a serious health issue as much as it just having a different sense of smell than most people. People around me have told me that I have a sensitive sense of smell on many occasions though. Not for everything, but certain things hit me harder. Maybe its a sensitivity to some compounds, could be its just genetics. As you can tell from the responses you are definitely not alone. I just accepted it and keep searching for things that do work for me.
I almost gave up on strawberries until I got Alpine for my strawberry mixes. I believe someone on this sub had mentioned it. I only use 0.3% max, so I don't think its as expensive as it seems. FA Red Touch, INW Shisha Strawberry and RF Strawberry work for me too, though be it partially. I know I can or at least used to be able to taste strawberry fine, because I've had commercial stuff taste good and proper to me in the past.
I can't do most heavy creams either, but INW Custard and Yes We Cheesecake have been fantastic. I can't do TPA Sweet Cream, but most of what you mention are good. CAP Vanilla Cupcake v2 has been good to me as well and I dislike CAP Cake batter the same. On top of being partially strawberry blind and having an aversion for those butyric flavorings I'm also a pepper/aniseed taster from certain vanilla custards and ice creams.
As for the fading of fruit flavors I'm not entirely sure what to tell you. You probably know and or have read the following things before, but I feel this is all I can do for you. You have to keep trying if you want this to work out.
I assume you aren't vaping the same mixes all the time so olfactory fatigue ("vapers tongue") would be ruled out.
Could be you are using flavors that just fade quickly. There are a lot of flavors like that out there. I think one of the hardest things in creating eliquids is to make something stable. I recently went "back to basics" with my mixing. For some recipes in the past I just kept adding things I like. Sometimes reaching 12 different flavorings plus sweetener. This makes it incredibly hard to develop so I had to change something about my ways. Now, when I create a concept I start with 2 flavors and try to work them into stable and complete profiles. I'll then proceed to find a third complementary or contrasting profile and work that into it. I try to stick to a 6 flavors per recipe maximum that would include 2 or 3 distinguishable profiles where I'm using 1-3 flavors to complete a profile. And of course its okay to go over or under sometimes. This process takes many iterations across a few months for me though. I just vape what I mix up and try to develop a bunch at the same time.
Could be that you are using flavors that already contain E.M and or sucralose. Maybe you are using too much of them, muting themselves.
It can be a dietary thing. Sticky and strong aromatic foods can mess with your sense of smell. Think of things like garlic, toffee, chocolates..
The obvious: Staying hydrated, switching up your mixes, trying some new foods to expand your palette, making some dietary changes. If you are desperate, its worth a try.
Best of luck! I'd be glad to know if you end up getting things to work out for you.
Thank you this was full of helpful info. Yeah I switch flavors around constantly to avoid fatigue because I lose them so easily, or at least fruits. I also keep my mixes really simple for now outside of a few really fantastic recipes from others that I love, mostly because I’m trying to work out what is acceptable and what flat doesn’t work for me.
What you have going on sounds almost dead on exact to me, so I’m super excited to get inw custard and cheesecake now lol. Fingers crossed! I will def pick up some van cupcake v2 and give it a go. The EM/sucralose issue doesn’t seem to be the case because for one I add very little if any, I don’t mix too many fruits together at once, and the fruits I do mix are usually loved by a few people close to me and they don’t lose flavor. I think that’s just a me problem and I’ll have to keep tinkering to find the ones that stick around well for me. Thanks again😊
Update...I got my INW cheesecake, mixed it two nights ago so it has barely steeped yet, and...it tastes like cheesecake!!! I’m so excited right now, I feel like a new world just opened up lol. INW custard still tastes really weird to me but it has only steeped for one week so far, so fingers crossed.
Thats good to hear! INW YWCC is a more European style cheesecake. Definitely my favorite and I think its a pretty big difference with NA style or even ye old TFA graham crust types..
About INW Custard. If its not sitting right with you in the first 3 day, its probably not going to get much better. It does get a little better over time, but does not require steeping really. I use it around 1.5% and can't do much higher or it will start to taste a bit chemical or bitter. The only other custard that I have found I can vape is CAP's v1, but its a bit rough for DTL to me and it requires steeping.
Good luck!
Well, I have a really weird taste issues, too. Caramel, even the slighest hint of it in any mix gives me an overwhelming, strong, unpleasant caramel taste. No idea what's wrong with my nose, but if you want to ruin any juice for me, just put in a drop of caramel flavour of your choice.
I love caramel in food, but in vape juice it's my nightmare.
Wow! You've got some serious taste issues here. I have to wonder, though, if it is the individual flavors (which may be if others are OK), or if you have an underlying issue.
Just throwing this out there, but I have a sensitivity to PG. I don't get sick from it, but do get an overwhelming "chemically" taste that throws a whole mix off. I started to mix to get rid of sucralose, but I have found that I need some sweet to combat the PG issue. For me, depending on what I am mixing and the PG/VG ratio, 1-2% marshmallow does it. BTW, my ADV is a complex vanilla custard.
Try dripping a little PG and VG and see if either give you an off taste. They should both be flavorless.
Thanks appreciate the input. I have done VG and PG individually to test that out, no issues there besides being a touch harsh PG doesn’t have any taste at all to me. My first batch I bought did, but it was cheap and I chucked it and got some from nic River, no problems since lol. Ive been playing around with different devices and temps, still get that same nastiness from most of my “heavy” flavors regardless of setup, unfortunately. What is really weird to me is that CAP golden butter tastes a bit weird but doesn’t have that nasty distinctive flavor and I’m assuming it is LOADED with DAP, so now I am extra confused lol.
I'm not sure how you define "LOADED", but in the grand scheme of things, there is little DAAP in any flavors. My God, how many people still add 2% sucralose to a recipe (thinking commercial juices are loaded, when in reality even they only use 1-2%): you'll add far more sweetener to a recipe than the amount of DAAP in a flavor.
Don't forget, many (most?) flavor concentrates are 80%+ PG and you are adding 10-20% flavor to a mix: I'm thinking micro litres of any given ingredient.
Now, vanillin is a common ingredient in flavor concentrates and we've had reports about that...
Very true. When I say loaded, I mean more by comparison to other flavors, not so much that the percentage in the mix is actually really high. I know DAP percentages are actually pretty damn low in any of them, even the ones that are the most “loaded” with it lol.
I'd love to know what you're using for percentages or what recipes you're mixing where you're seeing these things happen.
Did you experience similar issues with commercial juice?
Yeah I get the same issue from commercial mixes with custards/cheesecake etc most of the time. I’ve done some single flavor testing for the big offenders and mixed them at 1%, 3%, and 5%, the flavor was there regardless, just got worse with 5% lol. I’ve been mixing with NY cheesecake and vanilla custard between 2 and 3% and with many other flavors I can usually get away with that without too many off notes, but I can’t really taste them either. Doesn’t taste anything like custard or cheesecake.
Sugar cookie is similar, have a couple of recipes around the 2-3% mark where it’s tolerable and they work reasonably well, but doesn’t really seem to add any flavor just a little richness. Recipes like suicide bunny or custard clones are the WORST. Did a grants custard with 4% vanilla custard, 3% NY cheesecake, 3% French vanilla and I damn near threw up lol.
What profiles do work for you from commercial MFGs?
Fruit profiles usually work but still lose flavor for me, maybe last a little longer due to the extreme sucralose lol. Bakeries often work, like lemon tart or blueberry muffin, cinnamon roll, stuff like that. But the vast majority of the time the custards and cheesecakes and even sometimes ice creams don’t work. Some tobaccos do too, but I haven’t even dabbled in that outside of RY4. To be honest, I jumped straight into diy very early on in vaping so I don’t have tons of commercial juice experience. Was buying too many I didn’t really like or liked outside of being way too sweet for me, which is what turned me on to mixing.
I feel bad that CAP Sugar Cookie isn’t something you can enjoy. It’s magical
I've been vaping for over 6 years now and I lost the taste of strawberries recently. I can taste FLV Alpine only.
Are you sure FLV Alpine is really expensive? I mean my 10ml bottle will probably last me for a few years. What percentage are you using it at? Or any of the other strawberries for that matter?
Percentage on strawberries for me varies a TON. If I use the typical cap/tfa sweet and ripe combo I can minimally taste it at REALLY high percentages, but not for long. And yeah you are right, alpine is gonna last a pretty long time because it’s very effective for me even as a mostly standalone at 1%.
Do something like this
3% (FLV) Blueberry
1.5% (FLV) Cream
0.3% (CAP) Super Sweet
1.5% (CAP) Vanilla Custard
1% (TPA) Vanilla Swirl
edit - credit https://alltheflavors.com/recipes/46105
Thanks I will give that a try. I need to get some flv cream though, that’s one I don’t have yet.
I don't think I can help much, but a strawberry base I use might come in handy for you.
TPA Strawberry Ripe 5-7%
TPA Sweetener up to 2%
FA Lemon Sicily 1%
Lemon Sicily does wonders to compliment the sour side of strawberry, while not being too sour. It results in a distinct, but not too strong strawberry.
I sometimes mix just that for a shake and vape and it disappears in a couple of days. It's perfect for an ADV imo. I have used it with other fruits and I think creams? But not custards.
Good luck!
Have you tried CAP Vanilla Bean Ice Cream? I HATE TFA VBIC and LB VIC, but CAP is pretty good. I use that to replace LB and TFA vanilla ice cream 1:1. Have worked pretty well for me. I dunno, it can be something for you.
You haven’t specified what device you use for vaping. From my experience, same juice can be either fantastic or nearly gross depending on the device. BTW, I’m in the same boat for not tasting strawberry, and blueberry as well (I fake it with boysenberry + bilberry)
I have several different devices, from my drip tank and a few sub ohm tanks to a MTL tank, a few different mods, and now my smok nord 2. I def know what you mean by juices changing based on device, they do a LOT, but these issues I highlighted up above happen for me on all of them. I also don’t taste blueberry well at all. I just got bilberry and boysenberry and a test batch is steeping😊