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Dear Reddit,

I asked u/ID10-T once in the FotW thread to revisit RY4 and he shot me down. I can begrudgingly concede that his reasoning was sound, there really were no new flavors in this category and it would be weird to make a whole episode on something that had been done before. So... I decided to man up and do it myself, test the flavors, record the notes, compile them for y'all. This time, I enlisted the help of u/fieldgreens for some reference and second opinion on flavors. He was kind enough to oblige so today's installment will feature both of our notes. And maybe an introduction. Let's begin!

Prior Reviews:

Noted Episode 59: RY4 - watch this if you want to hear ID10-T break down the flavors with wayne (as only he can), u/CheebaSteeba's analysis, and u/mLnikon's endearing tobacco comments :)

FotW RY4 - pay particular attention to u/ChemicalBurnVictim’s notes in the comments

Introduction:

I like tobacco flavors. They’re just enjoyable to me where others aren’t. Not that I don’t enjoy a good fruit, candy, booze, or soda when in the mood, it just doesn’t last all day for me. Tobaccos give me a kind of complexity that is both easy to vape as well as easier to mix sometimes too since I can keep it simple and still get the nuances I enjoy. Many of the tobacco flavors are complex enough on their own, you can find simple mixes that hold their own. They can have a brutish, up-front quality that also comes through distinctly in MTL setups which is another bonus.

RY4 is kind of special in that it should be a blend of Caramel, Vanilla and Tobacco. The 4 signifies the rating of the strength of the flavor farther from the tobacco, meaning RY1 is mostly tobacco with hints of Caramel and Vanilla and 4 is mostly Caramel and Vanilla with hints of Tobacco.

More info on RY4 here

Notes:

(1) FA RY4: (Fieldgreens) Tested at 4%

• 5 day steep- Light caramel, nice light vanilla. Could be a good starter for a lighter RY4 recipe but will need considerable help. Might do better at a higher percentage, but worth building upon.
• 15 day steep- Probably the most outright agreeable flavor of the bunch, with all three flavor profiles easily discernable. Still needs help to feel complete, but it’s easy to see some pairing combinations here. All three profiles are there but remain light.
• Pairing suggestions- OSDIY Lucky Shot, INW Shisha Vanilla + FW Salted Caramel

FA Ry4: (doggo) 4% / Steeped 52 days / 70/30

If legend is true, JF is the answer to FA. There is a very slight difference here between the two that is hard for me to pin down. Where JF is a deep dark sweet to the caramel, the FA feels like it is lacking just a little in terms of completion. Which seems to have its benefits to me. The caramel taste is a bit sharper and less authentically caramel, if that makes sense. In a way it feels less... complete, which I can see making it more useful if you wanted to use it with other flavors to get a more rounded caramel sensation, or a more personalized one. It strikes me as a little less sweet and much thinner flavor. I wonder if it will get ‘lost’ more in a plain tobacco mix. Again, this could also be good if what you want is more of a hint of darkness and sweet instead of going full on Ry-ish. I'm thinking I would use this as an all in one frank’s hot sauce style sweetener for tobaccos. Nothing about this screams ‘pair me’ which is odd since I got that so much more clearly from the jf. There’s a real slight sharpness to it that isn’t bad, almost like idk, like it had some alcohol in it that didn’t steep off, which is weird since it steeped aplenty. I have used this in a simple mix with red burley and Ct Shade. It took the spice notes extremely well and mingled with the nuttiness of the RB easily. I think the JF will be used more when I want a clear deep undercurrent of sweet, and the FA for when I want something more pliable and discrete. No real tobacco here that I notice. 3-5% is probably the max I’d take this before adding in something else. I can see the JF going higher but, here, I would just use other stuff to boost the notes I wanted.

Noted: u/ID10-T mentions this needs a steep yet still got a faint ‘vinegary’ note. That must be that same thing I am describing as a slight alcohol note. Clearly this never quite fades.

Who is this for? This is for the mixer who wants an RY4 that is more versatile and they can bend it in various ways.

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(2) HS RY4: (Fieldgreens) Tested at 5%

• 5 day steep- This has a very forward pine note, but a very nice caramel behind it. It definitely needs more time, but could develop into something nice. There’s good stuff hidden behind the Pinesol here, but it currently tastes like an RY4 mixed with pine cleaner
• 15 day steep- The pine is now completely gone, and the caramel has lightened up. The tobacco has come to the forefront, and it’s very agreeable. This will need some help for both caramel and vanilla, but it’s a top 3 tobacco in the group.
• Pairing suggestions- This would pair nicely with some sweetness, so I think LB VIC would be a good addition. With some FA Caramel as well, it would make a really nice RY4 profile, as long as the tobacco stands up.

HS RY4: (doggo) 4% / Steeped 53 days / 70/30

Interestingly pronounced caramel. It’s more golden than dark, but there’s a dark sweet finish to it that is really interesting. It’s a bit thin here at 4% and I can see this going way higher, which kind of makes sense for HS. I feel it’s pretty empty on the top notes which makes me think this one maybe has less vanilla in it than the others. There’s some truly bad flavors and then there’s flavors that are difficult to work with. I think it’s all about finding the right application for it. I would probably lean towards using this when drying up a mix is in order. I’d pair this with something dark and syrupy like FLV Cavendish, Tatanka or even Red Burley which is wetter than most tobaccos. The caramel here really mixes well with whatever the tobacco portion is that they use. I’m a big fan of HS RY1 and this is definitely the further end of that spectrum. Where RY1 can just lay low in the cut at 3% for some neutral(ish) body, I could see this being that same sort of neutral(ish) tobacco booster to add that hint of sweet from 2-3%.

Noted: u/ID10-T “4% is maybe a bit overkill … Caramel flavored cotton candy RY4 … sponge sugar RY4 taste” Wayne “sweeter vanilla...not very rich … like a HS version of TPA RY4x2”

Who is this for? This is for the mixer who prefers a more forgiving flavor that will blend in discreetly into a mix and keep a more tobacco blend profile. Probably can be used to add sweet richness to ‘wetter’ tobaccos without edging towards syrup.

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(3) TPA RY4x2: (Fieldgreens) Tested at 5%

• 5 day steep: Sharp taste, definitely needs a longer steep. Caramel forward with the heaviest tobacco note of the group. Verging on harsh.
• 15 day steep: Easy to see why it’s the most popular RY4 around. Distinct caramel forward flavor with the most noticeable tobacco of the group. Dark and dirty, but not harsh. Infinitely pairable, but just needs some vanilla to fill out the trifecta.
• Pairing suggestions: Check ATF, there’s only about a million recipes using this. (3,500+ to be more precise yet less exact - doggo)

TPA Ry4x2: (doggo) 5% / steeped over 60 days / 70/30

Instant distinctive caramel flavor.There’s a reason this is so popular. People call this one ‘dirty’ and ‘difficult’ to work with. I could see that if you were trying to use it in a dessert profile or a desserty tobacco even. At the back end of the exhale is the sharpest, clearest taste of caramel you get. Like a little pop at the end that leaves a smooth caramel finish, that’s a little too sweet for my tastes personally. Until then, it’s just a little musky which is what probably sells it as ‘dirty’. It comes across as a muddled caramel that becomes clear on the exhale and leaves an almost chemical trail of sweet at the end that I really don’t prefer. I can see why this gets used in bakeries, milk shakes and other various non-tobacco profiles. I almost can’t get over how much sweetener there seems to be here. Where would I use this? Maybe with a cigarillo type Black and Mild where I want to have some sugar lips type finish. After mindlessly vaping the tester while doing other things, I found myself looking at it a few times over again to remind myself wth is this? Yes. It’s a good flavor. Yes, it’s complicated. You need only go to atf to see there’s 3,500 mixes using this flavor. A note about the caramel taste here: it’s deceptively good. It’s somehow simultaneously rich and dark but also light and sweet. I rarely comment on the vanilla because I never seem to notice it or pick it out clearly. I think that when I get a caramelish flavor that seems more pronounced, it’s usually when I get a distinct sweetness paired with a ‘flavorful’ caramel. The back end caramel here is full and makes the effort to use this flavor worth it. I do think that upwards of 4% in a mix is going to make it difficult to overcome the sweetness and some of the other challenges, but 2% may be just too low to get enough caramel to pair with the sweet that I imagine will show through regardless.

Who is this for? It’s not a beginner flavor in my opinion, despite the 3,500+ recipes that use it. This is a flavor that will require some effort to bend one way or the other. Luckily 3,500 recipes have laid the path out for you.

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(4) MB RY4: (Fieldgreens) Tested at 4%

• 5 day steep: Very mediocre, very flat. Nothing really to write home about so far. All three profiles present, but nothing that excites me at 5 days.
• 15 day steep: Much more workable now. Still slightly flat, but nice medium bodied caramel and light vanilla. Would go nicely with a butterscotch to build on the caramel. Tobacco is in the background and is just ok. Overall not great, not terrible.
• Pairing suggestions: FW Butterscotch Ripple

MB Ry4: (doggo) 4% / Steeped 52 days / 70/30

This one tastes notably different from the previous two (FA and JF). The caramel feels like it comes from a different shop. It’s a fuller flavor than the FA but not as dark as the JF. I substantially like this one more than the other two as a single flavor. While JF has this deep rich flavor, this one is maybe halfway in between JF and FA. The caramel is pronounced but seems like you could blend it more in a mix than JF. 4% seems pretty spot on for a percentage. It’s fully pronounced, has a very slight tobacco note that I notice, even. In fact, I nearly finished the sample just generally pulling on it without even realizing I did it. So, I’m going to say this one would be my recommendation if you wanted a stand alone Ry4 flavor. Thus far, I’d say this one was the most ‘complete’ flavor out of all of them...

Who is this for? This is for the mixer who wants a stand alone RY4 stand alone flavor, or just wants a solid all around RY4 for their mixes.

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(5) FE RY4: (Fieldgreens) Tested at 4%

• 5 day steep: Lots of leaf and almost nothing else. I don’t know what else to write besides that.
• 15 day steep: Still very leafy, almost like a CT Shade light. It’s much less offensive than Shade, but that’s all I get here. I don’t consider this an RY4 at all.
• Pairing suggestions: Maybe use in a recipe where you’d look for CT Shade but a bit lighter? I don’t see this as a really workable flavor.

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FE RY4 4% / 53 days steep / 70/30

This one off the bat is a much drier, more tobacco-y blend. The ‘dirtiness’ that is associated with most ry4’s (at least the ones that are described that way) is strong here. It comes across as a bit of spiced leafiness to me, more so than an actual spice itself. It’s dry and tastes so much like the drier HS tobaccos that I find it uncanny. That same really leafy dryness I get from HS No5 is present here in droves. I think this would be an interesting one to work with if I wanted to blend it with more Turkish/Oriental flavors that give off that spicy taste without sweetening them up too much. As for that ‘spice’ I feel like it leans more towards some leafy AP than anything remotely cinnamony/gingery/et cetery. Maybe a little nutty that leans more towards peanut? I like this more and more as I vape it. I’m finding that the caramel on the back end has more of a ‘toasted’ sense to it that goes well with the nuttiness. (Side note: early tests show it can go well with menthol mix.)

Noted: the regular ry4x2 which i didnt tryID10-T “ry4x2 is like green tea caramel coffee” Wayne “ryx2 dry coffee”

Regular ry4: ID “RY4 - sharp raw brown sugar, caramel nut that’s not sweet or sticky. Darker vanilla. Roasted nutty tobacco that makes the body, akin to Soho, drier finish than others that’s still smooth, use at 2-3%”

Who is this for? This is for the mixer who wants an actual sweet leafy tobacco flavor rather than a dessert caramel, wants to mix with spicier baccos, or to add a toasted nuttiness.

Bonus Reviews by Fieldy:

There were a few he tested that I did not get a chance to, kind soul that he is. Here you go:

(6) OSD RJ4: Tested at 5%

• 5 day steep- very dark caramel, faint realistic vanilla in the background. Moderate tobacco with a just before burnt aftertaste. Would need some vanilla help in a mix, but I think this could be worked with. Would not take this to a higher percentage.
• 15 day steep- Much more cohesive and smooth. Still very dark, but the scorched caramel has definitely calmed down. If you’re going to build on this, just some vanilla would probably produce a workable product. Still wouldn’t take this up any higher
• Pairing suggestions- This would probably work really well with a vanilla custard, dealer’s choice. WF Vanilla Ruyan Custard might be a homerun.

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(7) WF Vanilla Ruyan Custard: Tested at 4% (No 5 day test due to custard)

• 15 day steep- This is a surprisingly good vanilla custard, not really eggy, but rich and full. It’s paired with a nice tobacco, moderately dark and savory. Of all the flavors, this one surprised me the most. I can’t find any caramel in here, but I’m not really disappointed in that. Add one if you want, but this is a solid standalone flavor.
• Pairing suggestions- Add your choice of caramel if you want, but this would be great in any RY4 custard recipe.

(8) FE RY4x2: Tested at 4%

• 5 day steep: COFFEE. Dark, sharp, astringent coffee. Literally nothing else.
• 15 day steep: STILL COFFEE. If you told me blind that this was a coffee flavor, I’d believe you. Dark and sultry, there’s basically nothing else to this besides the coffee flavor, and maybe the slightest hint of vanilla.
• Pairing suggestions: Milk and sugar in the morning. (lol, fieldy)

Conclusion:

When people say 'dirty' caramel, I have no idea what they mean. And yet, I say it all the time too. I have a hard time with the vanilla notes AND the tobacco notes, so I tended to focus on the caramel which to me is the most distinctive flavor in an ry4.

What I am hoping you will get from this is a road map for trying something new. I am deeply indebted to u/fieldgreens for participating in this project for a few reasons. (1) I like the guy but, and more importantly, (2) he is relatively new-ish to tobaccos in general and picks up on notes that I am sort of numb to. If you are also newer to tobaccos and are interested to try something along these lines, lean more heavily on his subjective tastes. If you have been vaping tobaccos for a while, try out my lens and see if we don't align a bit more. We have a few more coming, including some notes on related flavors. I hope it wont be another month before I can get these to you. Also u/Foment_life promised to add on his notes for SoHo, tatanka, Old Captain and a few others. What a kind soul! ;)

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Please add your thoughts to the flavors in the comments section.

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I will be doing a second part with more reviews and I'm angling for a third post with recipes so please link to any recipes you think I should try that use or feature any RY4.

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Check out prior Tutorial Tuesday posts and please please please share with us what you have learned. Knowledge kept to one's self is knowledge wasted. PM me for an upcoming slot if you want to post up on a Tuesday.

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Thanks to the Noted crew for all their hard work in laying the foundation for future mixers and being a great show to watch, the mod team that everyone loves to give grief to but keep this place humming, and a special shout out to u/Apexified for encouraging me and loads of people to continue to share what we know in the hope that it may help another mixer down the line.

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keep mixing and keep sharing,

- i