Just want to see the general consensus here. For me it seems that when i limit my juices to no more than 3 or 4 flavorings they usually turn out much better. Granted ive tried complex mixes that are great. What are your thoughts?
My thoughts are, that it's an impossible question to answer. Anybody can throw together 2 or 11 flavors and make it taste like absolute garbage, but it can go the opposite way too.
You simply cannot compare the two ways of mixing to eachother.
As a standard I always try only two or three main flavours.
For example is you want to create a coffee milkshake. You might use espresso and ice cream as your two main flavours
Ice ream is your base and espresso will be your high tone.
But you may find that the two alone are not well rounded and flat. The espresso on its own might be too strong or bitter but if you reduce it you feel like the ice cream is now too overwhelming.
So you can drop 1 percent of espresso and replace it with 1 percent latte or cuppacino. Or any milder flavour in the same category. Now you have a more rounded coffee flavour.
Or you want the ice cream less sweet and a bit smoother. Then drop 1 percent ice cream and add 1 percent whipped cream.
Finally you can work with low tones. Or overtones. The flavours you generally get after an exhale. For this one maybe I want a bit of a nutty addition so I can maybe add 1 percent hazelnut praline or almond.
So you might en up with something like 4% ice cream 2% whipped cream, 2% espresso and 1% cuppacino. And then 1 % hazelnut praline and 1% almond.
In total you have only 11% flavour but only 6% is your base flovours.
As a newby I used to mix two or three flavours that I wanted in my juice as the main taste and I never got a good result. Only sometimes with fruit flavours.
As soon as I started rounding each flavour profile off like described I really good nice full juices. Especially for bakeries and desert recipes.
When you use too many different base flavours you will start tasting almost like a soapy taste.
For fruit juices it's a bit different. If you have a really good flavour you can honestly use 1 basic flavour as a profile like 4 or 5 percent blueberry. Then you can add a similar berry at about 2 percent which won't overpower the blueberry. Maybe a raspberry (good raspberry is hard to find). But now again the flavour might be nice but won't feel full. So I would add a filler and I personally love to use a yoghurt flavour or nougat. Ice creams often ruined the fresh fruit taste. Adding a bit of sour also helps for fruit. Sweetener I find is always neccesary in fruit profiles but not always with deserts.
Fruits are generally harder to get right but requires less additional flavours. You want to keep to a single main flavour, compliment it with a candy that goes well with it like a gummy, add a rounding off with a similar type of fruit and add sweetener. Btw ripe strawberry with any fruit in low quantities does wonders to any fruit juice.
I've made desert recipes that uses 4 different types of cookies 4 types of nuts, two types of banana and even cream on top of that. Comes out great and if I would leave 1 of the cookie flavours out it's just not the same. But my total percentage never went over 14%.
But fruits. I've always stuck to three fruits max, generally of the same type, one candy, sweetener and maybe yoghurt on top. Less flavours but you can use higher percentage total for fruits for a stronger base.
A good idea is to first make a tester just of two or three main flavour profiles you want. Then try it and determine what you want to change or add or round off. It sounds tedious but usually after the first test I would make a pretty good juice on the second try and on the third id have it just right.
Recipe development is all about trial and error, and the number of trial mixes required to balance everything perfectly increases exponentially as you involve more flavors.
If you're not into systematic testing to fine-tune your recipes, then you should limit yourself to no more than 3 flavors in a recipe. 3 flavors is enough to achieve many good things, without having too many variables to control.
Look at it this way: With 3 flavors, it only takes 9 samples to test the effects of increasing/maintaining/decreasing each flavor. With 4 flavors, 27 samples are needed to do the same thing; with 5, 81 and so on.
I have always mixed like you. Keep it simple. At first I was cramming too many flavors into a recipe, trying to get it a little better. Chasing a dream. When i see recipes that appeal to me but have 6 plus flavors, i usually simplify for my tastes.
I feel this a lot! I think having too many flavorings crowds my palate and i have a harder time picking out nuances
You're right, just like some flavors compliment others, they can also antagonize each other and alter your perception of or drown out the more delicate notes. Same reason that beer and wine are paired with entrees, and ordering a red wine with fish will make society folks stroke out / vice versa in that you generally won't want a white wine with beef.
Every time I come to this sub I find answers I didn't know I needed to know. Thank you all.
Same here. I was hesitant to ask this question to begin with because I knew that it was pretty trivial, but the answers that people have posted they are gold and I love to hear other mixers perspectives
Context. In a squonk, with a good RDA and fused Clapton, I can taste the nuances of my seven flavour ADV. I delight in the combination of caramel, cinnamon, vanilla and custard. Try that one in a pod.
Now, try my two flavor lemon tart jacked with nicotine in a pod and you'll beg for more. That same recipe will blow you away if you hit that in an RDA.
It took me almost a year to perfect my ADV. Do you really think a three flavour recipe is going to be better? It depends on the context.
You sound like a fellow flavor chaser - mind if I ask for your recommendation on best RDAs (brand & model)? I'm wanting to make the jump from pre-built sub-ohm to rebuildables, and figured an RDA prioritizing flavor, simplicity, and reliability would be ideal (pandunemployed atm so okay with tankless setup for around the TV).
I'll give up my gear list, but I'm not sure what's still on the market:
Psyclone Mods Citadel (clone from FT): small RDA is an excellent single flavor reference.
Psyclone Mods Hadaly (clone from FT): small RDA is an excellent single flavor reference.
Vapefly Pixie: small, single coil, good for single flavor reference.
Blitz Hermetic: single coil, good all-round RDA for recipe testing.
Oumier Wasp Nano: single coil, good all-round RDA for recipe testing. Also good on a squonk.
Wotofo Elder Dragon: tight, single coil RDA. I use this one for testing pod recipes.
I've probably got another dozen RDA's (mostly dual coil) and another dozen RTA's. I love my rebuildables.
Wowza 😳 I really appreciate the info. I'm only about three months into sub-ohm, after about eight months on salt pods, and haven't found a local community yet so I'm still pretty ignorant about what's out there. I actually just learned about the whole PMTA situation this morning, crappy way to start a day. Looks like it's the best time to get into DIY though!
From what I've read, it seems as though modern RTAs have largely caught up to RDAs in terms of flavor - have you found that to be true? And would you recommend wire or mesh coils?
Adding to what Tim said below.
In my rotation for flavor:
KRMA RDA- Great flavor single coil. Easy to build on.
Hadaly RDA- Great flavor single coil. The posts can be a pain in the ass.
Entheon RDA- Great flavor single coil. Basically an updated Hadaly with posts that are user friendly and a bigger cap.
Wasp Nano RDA- Great flavor single coil. Lots of airflow. Whistles when hit hard. Occasional spitback.
Fireluke 2 sub-ohm tank- Great flavor mesh coil tank.
With that said, your mod can have a huge impact on the experience.
My typical all day set up is a MCM Underground SSS mech mod topped with either the KRMA or a Waspeon (wasp cap on a entheon rda) with the KRMA drip tip.
That drip tip reduces airflow, eliminates whistle and prevents juice spitback from the wasp cap.
Well as i said, the amount of flavorings used does not ultimately determine how good a juice will be. Im sure your 7 flavor adv is amazing! (And i would love to try it,sounds right up my alley!) I was more so meaning for this to be a discussion about complexity. For instance, when I first began DIY I was under the assumption that complex flavor equals a complex recipe. Buy as I have continued in DIY I have started to notice that my simple recipes that contain about 2 to 4 flavorings seem to have more nuances that I can perceive as opposed to the complex recipes that I've created / found online. This isn't to say that one is better than the other I was just asking the question because I wanted to know other people's experiences and opinions. For me I'm having better luck using less materials to get to where I want to be
http://tjek.nu/r/yRAJ Here's my "Just Another Vanilla Custard".
What DIYer doesn't want to save money? Did you know you can mix Capella Lemon Meringue Pie at 15% and have a decent vape? I guess if you find 2-3 complex flavors and the right ratio you probably can come up with something. I just see too many people rave about there two fruit and Super Sweet recipes, only to be back on the forum next week looking for "tried and true" recipes because they can't find the perfect ADV.
Agreed. ALWAYS use a rda to test your flavours. Bottom flow is best if you ask me. I used to use tanks because I thought rdas are a mission but really it's not. If it's a side flow rta you will probably have less leakage than a tank. You fill the bottom reservoir, you smoke it till it's basically almost dry and you leave it till your next puff.
i rarely do over 2-3 these days, must be getting old. one base, one accent, and optional one to reinforce either base or the accent. as zen as it can be.
I think well constructed recipes are better than ones that are thrown together. Whether that means carefully picking out the perfect set of strawberries to make a simple strawberry recipe or taking time and crafting something dozen nuanced flavors.
Between the two there is no best option. Both have merits, both have points where they are better executed or are better able to shine in a given set up. Like, I don't typically aim for near as much nuance in pods or MTL recipes, but I am content to build more complex recipes for my DL atomizers, but even then there are exceptions to the rule.
Depends on what you're attempting to replicate.
Ex. Try making Baklava with 3 flavorings.
A great baklava needs only 2 ingredients:
Ingredient|% :---|---: Baklava (SC) (Real Flavors)|3.00 Pistachio (TPA)|3.00
Flavor total: 6%
Remember to rate it at e-liquid-recipes.com!
Saw that awhile back. Reviews for Baklava SC seemed hit or miss so I made it from scratch.
With only a few exceptions, we're not dealing with "simple" flavourings to begin with. Your two-flavour recipe can easily be a far more complex blend than someone else's fourteen-flavour tour de force - it just looks simpler because you used fewer bottles getting there. And if you have a single, simple flavouring that's already bang on point, all you can do is steer it away from your end goal. The question is meaningless.
There's no real answer. There are 2 flavor bangers and some that got over seven. But IMO 6 flavors is a pretty good number. You have to look at the recipe and really read the notes then you can understand why there's 6 flavors in it
Ah, I found the answer right after I asked.
Could you give us some recipes that support your argument here. I’m familiar with the 1-2-3 recipe bangers, but not much in the way of 2 flavor combinations.