Hi everybody! This is my first post. I haven't seen a presentation post or if I can't open a post of this type instead of commenting on another related post. If I've done something wrong, please let me know.
I work developing recipes for some not so well known brands, and I've been reading the notes of several reddit users about some flavours for years, so I finally decided to take the step and participate.
I want to open with a post where I tell my development notes about a profile that I've been asked recently, in case anyone finds it useful, and see if anyone has any suggestions since this profile is driving me crazy: cadbury crunchie rocks
On the cadbury page we can read: Chunky clusters of crunchy golden honeycomb and crispy corn flakes, covered in Cadbury milk chocolate, for that super-shareable Friday feeling!
When you eat it, you detect 3 main nuances: milk chocolate, rice crispies type cereals, and caramel/toffee.
So, I will post first the recipe and then the development notes and the problems I encountered (sorry for not putting the table format, I don't know if it's necessary to do it in markdown, so in my first post I will put the other suggested format)
Glamour chocolate (MB) @ 2%
Double chocolate (clear) (TPA) @ 2%
Crispy wafer (WF) @ 2.25%
Cookie (FA) @ 1.25%
Rice krispies type (FW) @ 5%
Butterscoth ripple (FW) @ 2.25%
Butterscotch (FA) @ 1.5%
Marshmallow (TPA) @ 2%
Bavarian cream (TPA) @ 1.5%
Sweetener (TPA) @ 1%
I know, over 20% and sweetener added. I wouldn't make an e-liquid like that for my own consumption, but it's a commercial liquid, and it has a sweet profile. Plus, rice krispies needed a lot of % shine a little bit.
Glamour chocolate (MB) & Double chocolate (clear) (TPA): I hate vape chocolate. It's hard to avoid the burning taste if you want an intense flavor, and one that doesn't taste like cardboard. MB chocolate was one of my great discoveries, it has hardly any off-flavor and allows a relatively high intensity of flavor without tasting burnt. TPA double chocolate does have a cardboard aftertaste, but so do crunchie rocks, and it allows for some deepening of the chocolate flavor.
My first problem is that the chocolate flavor is not as prominent in this recipe, I was planning to use HS Australian Chocolate, but I've been asked to avoid some brands, HS among them. I've tried the classic FA chocolate/FA cocoa and AP, but I'm starting to get the burned-out aftertaste.
Crispy wafer (WF), Cookie (FA), Rice krispies type (FW): CrispyWafer was a discovery here. Not as crispy as I thought, but I like the dry cereal/cookie nuance it brings. The buttery/vanilla and semi-nut notes it has fit well with the recipe. Fits well in a "crunchy" chocolate , like a Kit-kat bar. FA cookie is a workhorse to me. I love its taste, it brings depth to the cereal shade, and a dry touch to help the rice crispies. Its taste is slightly different from what I taste in a crunchie rock, but I think it's justifiable to use it. Was thinking about CAP cereal 27 to bump up the crispies, but it turned too cereally.
TPA rice crunchies discarted, It lacks a lot. Too smooth, more a sensation than a flavour. If % bumped, not tasting any rice, but gets toasty, roasted and burnt aftertaste grain. FW rice krispies was better, but it doesn't reach the intensity of flavor that I can appreciate in a crunchie rock. At higher percentages, the off-flavors start to get pretty annoying. TPA kettle corn was tryed to pump the rice profile, but didn't turn out well. too much "cinema corn" nuance for this profile.
Butterscoth ripple (FW), Butterscotch (FA): Butterscoth ripple has a nice buttery and caramel/toffe flavour, I love to use it when I can, and fits well with the caramel notes I found on crunchie rocks. FA buttersocht adds a little more depth so that the taste does not remain so much in the background, and they combine great.
Marshmallow (TPA), Bavarian cream (TPA), sweetener (TPA) :Marshmallow is for the mouthfeel and seems an inseparable companion to the rice krispies. It really completes your profile and brings some sweetness. TPA was prefered over CAP and FA. FA meringue was tryed, but it's too sugary for this profile. Bavarian cream it's my favourite blender for those pastry recipes. It combines all the flavors well and doesn't add a touch of vanilla that is not present in crunchie rocks.
Sweetener is necessary. The sweetness of the flavours used is lower than the sweetness of an ultraprocessed crunchie rock with different sugars. I usually prefer CAP super sweet in a lower amount, but TPA sweetener was chosen because it contains less sucralosa and a bit of EM, which is necessary to relax some sharp nuances derived from the high % required of some flavours to reach their desired intensity
I hope I haven't committed too many infractions with this post and that it might have been of interest to you. Looking forward to see your thougths!
Not that I'm going to be buying any commercial juice soon...
The only thing I see is all the maltol and vanilla buried in there. Where you want pop and sweet, you are muting with the % you are using. I'd suggest omit the Sweetener (TPA) and use 0.5% of CAP Super Sweet.
Honestly, I haven't done that test on this particular recipe. But normally, when I go above 20%, and I have some sharp notes, the amount of EM derived from that % of TPA sweetener rounds out the liquid a little bit by reducing the sharp notes, and the loss of flavor is negligible (thank you Charlie Nobble). But yes, I should definitely try that option, although my main concern is to accentuate the chocolate without the burning taste and without using HS Australian chocolate, and the rice krispies.
Thank you so much!
My ADV is a 20% flavor vanilla custard and I had this fight too. However, TFA Sweetener is 50% sucralose and 50% EM: but there is still a lot of maltol, ethyl maltol and vanillin (all sweeteners) in that marshmallow and butterscotch. Tip the scale and all that sweetener starts to kill the flavor.
I don't use chocolates or the other ingredients you use, so I can't comment on those. Hope it works out for you.
What brands are you not able to use? Is VT one of them?
It depends on each case. In this one, I don't know if VT will be "banned". HS was because the manufacturer of the brand that ordered the recipe from me has no commercial agreement with HS
Well I was just checking in case you could use VT chocolate custard, VT chocolate mousse, or maybe ooo chocolate milk but that one turns into a straight up Tootsie roll really easily. I'd say a combo of mb Glamour chocolate and VT chocolate mousse would probably be a more intense and realistic chocolate if you could use it
Edit: also, I've never tried this candy in particular, but you mentioned honeycomb. Maybe look into VT honeycomb to go with the rice Krispies?
VT Chocolate Mousse / Chocolate Custard are the only chocolate I’ve been able to tolerate vaping. Zero off notes. Straight up chocolate heaven. MB Glamour Chocolate is okay after a 2 week steep but I still get some weird off notes with it now and then.
Cadbury Crunchies in Australia are just honeycomb coated in chocolate.
Edit: Saw the link, its a different product. I dont think we get those here.
Funny. Up here cadbury crunchy is sponge toffee covered in chocolate.
Im not sure what sponge toffee is. Is it hard yellow and airy hard toffee? If it is then thats what we call honeycomb.
Usually the outside tends towards hard and pale yellow, the inside is closer to a brown with hints of gold, mainly full of air pockets. Basically it's toffee made with baking soda mixed in, add a bit of acid at the end to react to the soda and create all the bubbles. Could be the same thing. Honeycomb here is something from a bee hive.
If I was attempting this, I’d probably use something like this:
2% CAP Cereal 27
3% VT Chocolate mousse
2% WF Crispy Wafer
2% VT Honeycomb
0.5% CAP Super Sweet
I think you’d have a much better time using something along these lines. Should hit all the main notes of the profile without over flavouring.
Thank you very much for your proposal, no doubt, as a recipe in itself, it's better than the one I propose. The problem is that Cap Cereal is too cereally for a crunchie rock, which is more like a rice krispie and "dry" cookie, and chocolate mousse has a pudding flavour very far from the chocolate flavor you can taste in here.
Besides, even though I prefer those more subtle e-liquids, the brand wants something more intense
I re-read your original post, and have some additional thoughts on this.
First up, I've never bothered trying TFA Double Chocolate (clear), as I've always had issues with vaping chocolate, and - after reading others impressions on it - wasn't interested in wasting money on another chocolate that just ends up in the bin.
I've also never tried FW Rice Krispies Type, but I'm interested in trying it out after reading your notes.
I agree that on their own, both VT chocolates I mentioned above might not work here. However, experience has shown me that they can both be "bent" into more generic chocolate flavours with the right supporting ingredients.
So I mixed up a slightly modified version of your recipe to see if I could achieve this, substituting VT Chocolate Custard at 1% in place of TFA Double Chocolate (clear). I tried to keep your other ingredients at the same percentage as your recipe, but had to make a few small subs, as I'm missing a few flavours. (Subs in bold.)
TFA Bavarian Cream 1.5%
FA Butterscotch 1.5%
FW Butterscotch Ripple 2%
VT Chocolate Custard 1%
FA Cookie 1.25%
WF Crispy Wafer SC 2.5%
MB Glamour Chocolate 2%
FA Marshmallow 2%
TFA Sweetener 1%
I was pleasantly surprised by how good this was. I've always had issues with MB Glamour Chocolate, but the amount of Ethyl Maltol in this recipe really helps smooth off any off notes I usually get when using it. It seems I was using it wrong. I also consistently get some pretty nasty butyric off notes from FW Butterscotch Ripple, until about a 7 day steep, but again, the maltol seems to completely nullify that here.
VT Chocolate Custard at only 1% doesn't come across as a Custard at all. It just helps deepen some of the chocolate notes in MB Glamour Chocolate.
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As I don't have FW Rice Krispies Type, I can't really comment on its inclusion in your recipe, but I do think the combination of FA Cookie and WF Crispy Wafer gets somewhat close to a vague cereal impression.
The main problem here is balance: the large amount of maltol kind of muddies the entire profile, making it difficult to pick out any layers. But without it (or even with a reduced amount), I suspect the off notes from MB glamour Chocolate would start poking through, and ruin the entire experience.
I'm not an experienced enough mixer to come up with any solid ideas on how to resolve this, but I've got a few suggestions that may or may not help.
- Have you looked into using FLV Marshmallow in place of TFA? It has a cocoa note to my tastebuds. I suspect that Flavorah might be on your not allowed list, due to price point, but it might enhance some of the cocoa / chocolate notes, whilst bringing a little Marshmallow texture to the table
- FE Sweet Rice might be worth a look to enhance the rice krispy element. It's used here to add a starchy element to WF Crispy Wafer
The only other thing I'd personally look into would be to incrementally reduce the amount of maltol-containing components by 0.5% (Bavarian Cream, Marshmallow, Sweetener) to see if I could create a little more definition in the layers without letting the off notes from MB Glamour Chocolate and FW Butterscotch Ripple poke through.
Man, you're awesome. Just these days I've come to the same conclusion. I have eliminated the krispy rice and included the sweet rice raising the % of FA cookie. Also, I tried the custard chocolate even though I discarded it because it was far from the profile, and as you say, one way or another, it fits in this recipe for the rest of the components. That has allowed me to reduce the % of glamour chocolate, and the result convinces me even more. Thank you very much for taking the time to write down your thoughts and advice, it was an honor.
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