> This has been and probably always will be one of the most frequently asked questions anywhere DIY is discussed. From the ECF forum in 2009 to the DIY Discord in 2020, every DIY FB group, and even ELR’s own forum are consistently pinged with this same request “How can I make something that tastes like X?”
> Clones are often a starting point for a lot of new DIY’ers. They look at DIY as a way to save money by mixing up their ADV themselves, at a fraction of the cost. And because they’re new to DIY and new to the forum, they don’t realize how many times the same request has been made before they got there.
> With the upcoming regulations and the potential for your favorite juice to disappear from the shelves, now is as good a time as any to start working on that clone.
##Finding Clone Recipes is easy... but finding recipes that actually taste exactly like the juice you’re trying to clone? Pretty far from it. Searching ELR returns 4,446 recipes with clone in the name (another 852 with remix) but there are a few interesting points to consider when you break down the recipes by rating.
> The first 10 pages (250 recipes) are rated 3,885 times (2,387 for the first 50 recipes) and the number of ratings drops to 3 by the time you reach page 10. Keep in mind that nearly every recipe on ELR is rated 5 stars by its proud author.
- 21 recipes from 2014
- 96 recipes from 2015
- 100 recipes from 2016
- 26 recipes from 2017
- And an astonishingly low 7 made in the last 2 years.
Of course if I were to pull all the data there would be a lot more clones created in the last 2 years but what that shows is that the number of people trying and rating (or confirming their accuracy) is essentially nil. And with nearly half those highly rated clones being conceived 5+ years ago, the accuracy, if it existed in the first place, might only exist with 5+ year old gear.
ATF is just as bad with 105 “clone” recipes and 258 “remix” recipes that, while typically made in the last 2 years, are rated far less frequently.
What does that all mean? It might mean that looking at existing clone recipes makes for a better reference than a guide and that mixing that one clone attempt you find on ELR with 3 ratings might not be the best first step.
Better steps below, read on.
##Monthly Clone Request Thread
How you ask is more important than what you’re asking for. The key isn’t always to try and find someone who has actually tried the juice but instead describing what you’re tasting well enough that people can help you find the flavors that are close to what you’re looking for. Ultimately it will fall on your palate to decide. Recipes and advice posted in the thread can help you narrow your search and speed up the development process.
The more information you share, the more you’ll get back in return.
You can always find the latest Monthly Clone Request thread with this link
##Picking your flavors
- Take notes on your juice; Even if you think your palate isn’t up to par or finding the words to describe what you’re tasting doesn’t come naturally, taking notes will give you a way to break down your subjective experience. Figure out what the most prominent flavor is and then search for the accents. At the very least you’ll have a reference as you search recipes and/or post a request.
- The Flavor Review Wiki is a great resource for looking up reviews of flavors you’ve identified in the juice you want to clone. It gives you a starting point and ideas on what to add to your cart or wish list.
- If you can't find a full review for a flavor you're interested in you might find some notes or impression in the Flavor Notes wiki.
- Depending on how popular the juice that you’re trying to clone is, you’ll likely find an attempt with a quick search on ELR or ATF. Sort by rating and then look through all the recipes to find similarities between them.
- Try to find recipes with descriptions that mirror your experience. If they have no description at all, it's not only a shot in the dark, it's very likely they didn't put a lot of effort into the recipe.
- Rich from Gremlin Juice/DIY explains How cost/availability factors in to commercial juice. Most companies will stick with flavors that are easy to stock and inexpensive in bulk.
You can also take a peek behind the veil and look over the commercial recipes posted on the sub to get an idea of what they’re using.
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##The White Whales
This is one hell of a journey and highlights the up/downside of obsessing over getting it right, as explained by the manic and often brilliant /u/captaincannibal
- Cannibal's SHURB clone!
- Cannibal's SHURB2!
- Cannibal's SHURB v3
- Shurb v4 - I WANT TO BELIEVE
- Bonus:
- Has anybody continued the attempts to clone Shurb? Because I have and I'm getting nowhere
- More Shurb failures - My notes, thoughts, process, etc
- My effort cloning Shurb - /u/vaperous
- Do you like JTJM Shurb? You’ll love this! - /u/Botboy141
DIY’s most brash and boisterous raconteur /u/matthewkocanda went in different direction with his cloning journey, letting the recipe evolve into something better suited to his taste:
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Nebula, a reimagining of Stargazer (first attempt and inquiry)
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Recipe: Nebula (started off as a clone, but growing into something different)
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Got my scale, got my massive flavour order, and I think I perfected this recipe.
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##Clone Attempt Write-ups
These are good reads to understand the different processes and techniques people used to achieve results they were happy with.
- Nanner/Polar Bear
- Persistence, molecules, and a legitimate Bombies 'nana cream clone
- Watermelon Crack Clone v. Final Version : DIY_eJuice
- Vampire Vapes Heisenberg Clone - Revisited
- Naked 100 Green Blast and Amazing Mango Clones
- [Recipe] 'Murica (Vape Wild) Clone V1
- A guy and a dream: cloning Hawk Sauce
- Mustard Tiger, an homage to Hobbe's Blood
- The final results of my quest to clone Muffin Man
##Popular Crafted Clones
- Nana Cream by Skiddlzninja
- Watermelon Crack by Vurve
- Titanic by ID10-T
- Placid by Fizzmustard
- Shurb by Cannibal
- Boss Reserve by Folkart
- Mama Melons by Jennifer Jarvis
- Dinner Lady Lemon Tart by Darren Cole
- Honey Dewwey by Enyawreklaw
##Clone Recipe Lists
- The Big List of Solid Clones (Spreadsheet Version by /u/benzinojamin)
- Kritikal Mass Clones List
- Le DIY Pour Les Nuls
- Official Clone Recipe Thread
- AllTheFlavors Remixes
- ELR Clones
For more FAQ's check out the FAQ Friday Index
And for those that want to discuss their clone attempt/process with other mixers: Check out #cloning on the DIY Discord
I still haven't figured out why cloning is such a common thing to attempt to do. It's like trying to copy a book by hand without making a mistake. It's more fun to write your own book, right?
Idk some people dont know what we like. Like myself.. so I knew I liked vct by ripe vapes so i started with something i could copy and like plus wont be wasting g money making garbage with my hamburger palate. So once I got confident with that I started to venture off from there. Now i have something mine that i love.. but like myself I am a blue collar construction guy with zero background in baking or any cooking besides a bbq. So I dont even understand the complex flavors... knowing what you know with your DIY experience makes a statement like that easy.. the same way it is always easy for someone with experience to question on how a novice does something.. but remember we were all novices at something and needed the copies and mistakes to get our experience. A clone gives a goal. I want to follow this to get to that flavor. Gives experience in mixing and understanding
i legit started diy partly to clone in my mind because well, where the eff do you start? I knew i could vape X so why not try for what I liked? I also never believed that all the stuff y'all were vaping was that good. You definitely have to be willing to try a few recipes when you start, however the context of the community makes it so that people relate to recipes as mixers differently than as users.
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Mixers can appreciate some subtleties much differently than users. Flavor balancing, uniqueness of mixes, unusual arrangements, and hyper personalized tastes make such a huge difference in the expereince. Once the transition to mixing for my own tastes were made, lawd that's when you never look back.
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Had my brother come up for a visit. Asked him, what you been vaping lately and he threw out a few things. In two hours I had three remixes for him that he was like, damn that's good. Cloning as an idea is lovely at first but as has been said here, a bit unrealistic and generally not worth the effort when you can remix a profile and make it to your taste (with what you have) just for pennies and have some shits and giggles along the way. And usually make it 'better' because of it.
This is an outstanding response. It certainly sums up the transition to DIY experience for me. Came looking for the same flavors I used to buy, but ended up learning a lot about my own tastes.
It’s funny because u/Foment_Life always talks about the similarities to mixing and cooking but I always kind of saw it like music. That’s what I related it to. Some of the catchiest licks in music are just two notes.
Now, after a while of vaping and mixing, I really taste my food differently. I mean I was always a decent to above average cook, technically speaking. But I taste the food differently now. I’m like damn I want a hint of dill here a little extra pepper there.
If I had a mixing ‘style’ I guess I’d call it explorational. I like to mix some things together and literally just see if I like it. Even the ‘mistakes’ are fun because I’m asking myself, what don’t I like about this? What’s working for me? What do I want to try next time?
Shouldn't be hard to understand. I can understand you, what do you not understand about people wanting to clone their favorite juice? Not everyone is in it for the "Art" of creating your own original flavor, just like most people don't want to create their own alien coils, or even people who don't enjoy rebuilding in general lol
It's just so much easier to make your own juice that tastes even better, trying to actually clone something perfectly is really, really hard. If your aim is to get it just right, that is. If you're just out to make something fairly similar to your favorite juice, that's different, way easier, totally completely reasonable, probably how most folks get started mixing and maybe all they ever do, and that's fine. We might be working off different definitions of what "cloning" is. I'm talking about obsessively trying to exactly copy a commercial juice. That's laborious AF and not fun, unless you're someone who really likes to be challenged.
Ahhh fair enough, I understand. I didn't really think of it as an exact clone, but something similar enough. After a few days it's difficult to notice small variances in flavor anyways.
I'm surprised there's people out there trying to get an exact match.
Back in 2013 I started making my own juices, but I hated them all. Since then I've only found 2 juices that I can vape, out of at least a few hundred I've tried.
So getting it as close as I can is pretty important, for me. Or else I'll just drive 200miles across the border to a vape shop lol or quit altogether (usually after a few days I'm good but then get bored and go back to it, good ol physical addiction)
On a side note, since clearly you're good and DIY. I'm looking to make my own Killer kustard strawberry. I'm in California, they just banned the sale of flavors. I love the custard and lite notes of strawberry. I've gotten a few recipes from people and research. Given my last failures with DIY in 2013-2014, can you give any recommendations? Strong custard flavor with hint of strawberry. I'm a simple man with a picky set of taste buds lmao
What's the point of requesting on the clone list when there are barely responses to the requests?
I see responses to lots of the request. Unfortunately most of the requests end up just being the name of the juice they want a clone of. Unless someone comes along who happens to know that juice well, how many people do you expect to look it up and then try to respond?
The point is the same as anything with relatively low odds of success. There's a chance.
Yeah, most of us stopped vaping commercial stuff years ago. Best commercial juice I remember was killer kustard by vapetasia. I've mixed much better custards by myself since then. I'm not trying to say there's no use for clones though
I did see a clone of naked 100s go Nana's and I'm half tempted to buy all the stuff listed on one of the recipe sites. Doubtful it will taste right but I've always hated artificial banana and most of the ingredients I saw on the clone list I don't typically like.
A better idea for me is to check out the banana flavor of the week / month post I just found on here and give those DIYs a try instead. Worst case I'll have some flavorings not made in 2016, best case I'll find an ADV!
thank you apex for this write up.
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the massive collection of data/recipes here is honestly ridiculous. It makes for that reminder that this forum is a treasure trove of great recipes and hidden gems for those willing to look around a little.
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cloning gets a bad rap where, because the project of diy is all about customization and you can far surpass whatever is out there on the market, remixing sometimes gets overlooked. Like a great cover song, sometimes the spirit of what was once there gets elevated to a new level of perfection.
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your work here is insanely appreciated by at least this guy.
I do like the idea of remixing more than cloning because it gives you a lot more room for creativity over accuracy.
> sometimes the spirit of what was once there gets elevated to a new level of perfection
Beautiful sentence and IMO what DIY is really all about--personalization.
Thanks for the kind words, guy ;)
I miss out on myblu Cherry crush but if someone else has tried it I would like to have a clone of that. When I got my money finally I couldn't find any it was sold out every where I checked.
Did I do this right?
Not really. You want to post it in the right place for starters. There’s a post every month called the clone request thread. That’s where the request should go. Secondly, you want to provide a description for the juice. Maybe there’s one online but the advertising is usually some made up shit. If you could actually describe what it tastes like to you then someone may say, hey this is that flavor (if they know the company and what flavor they likely used) or hey try these flavors (because they know them so well and figure it will give you a similar or satisfying vibe).
Still searching for a recipe( or someone who knows this juice to collab with me in trying to figure out)
Breezy (or hoochie) by thot juice (Owned by vapecity)
(or hell, someone who knows someone there whos willing to make some $ selling the recipe lol)
Pretty sure based on my notes I'm getting its got:
Strawberry, Lychee, mangosteen, star fruit, Pomegranate,Kiwi, maybe small amounts of pineapple, koolada/ws-23 and menthol, and probably some weird tropical fruit I'm not familar with. I got some guesses but this is all that seems 100% imo
I'm gonna start playing around with things this week when all my supplies and stuff come in but if anyone also likes this juice, hmu, I'd love to hear your description of the taste.
Been looking for a good ADK Cascade or Placid clone. The ones i find on google feel like they are made by people who have never really spent time with the actual juice. I'll follow the recipes to the T and the cascade always comes out with way too much banana and the Placid is way too sweet. IMO not that close at all.
My local vape shop here in Annapolis Maryland had a house blend called candy mountain/ lolly it's been discontinued sadly. The flavor description is life saver gummies iced web site says -Flavor Profile : Cherry, Pineapple, Orange, Watermelon and Raspberry. It doesn't taste like every other gummy juice I tried it's distinct so much so I can't even begin to explain how life changing it is to me. I tried to find any real solid info on it but nothing I tried worked much. If anyone has an idea or where I could start I would be much appreciated I still have the last bottle known to man so I am safe guarding it Incase I find some place that can take a sample and find every single flavor, ingredient,mix ratios or any kind of info on i. Again in advance I thank you all for even giving this post a look.