I've been using store bought nic salts in my MTL stuff for almost the past year, and after trying many, I've still only come across 1 I can vape on a daily basis. I usually use stuff in the 25mg range.
I've been mixing my own juice since October for my DTL stuff with free base nic, usually in the 3mg range. What level of free base nic would I have to use to achieve similar results to a 24mg nic salt, or even a little bit higher? I'll be moving my juice 50/50 or 60/40, vg/pg.
24mg nic salt = 24mg freebase
Agreed - I've been making ~20mg alternating with both, for MTL use. I don't notice much difference in the throat hit - I believe the ratio of PG/VG is more relevant with higher PG = stronger throat hit. There's some difference in how your body processes the nicotine in salt vs. freebase - salt feels a bit more instantaneous, but honestly the distinction seems fairly subtle to me.
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that salt hits faster but freebase keeps you satieted for longer. I could be wrong though, I haven't vaped salt much.
That was stupid of me, I wasn't thinking. The nic levels are the same, no matter the type of nic, aren't they? Nic salts just have less of a throat hit
> The nic levels are the same, no matter the type of nic, aren't they? Nic salts just have less of a throat hit
Correct. But in addition, nic salts hit the blood stream faster than freebase nicotine does.
But also more nic per drag if that makes sense. The amount of vapor you consume is vastly different between mtl and dl. So if you dl the same mg as mtl you will be taking in that much more nic. It's like drinking 8oz of beer and 8 oz vodka. The same reason an 8 oz beer is equal to 1.5 oz shot.. you get the same effect from both just amount you intake is different. Now drinking an 8 oz of vodka is the same as dl 50mg salts. Which depending on amount of vapor you intake will determine how strong nic you need. When I mtl I used 59mg Juul. Now I restrictive hit 25 mg and I would full dl like 18 to start. So the amount of nic will all be the same because amount consumed is different.. a 8pz beer is 5oz wine is 1.5 shot.. all the same just consume different amounts. Salts and freebase just changes taste and speed of absorption. When I full dl I could use 30ml a day, maybe 10 restricted and about 4ml 50mg.. so at the end of the day total mg nic is equal in all 3
Exactly. Which means that you can vape higher nic concentrations without wrecking your throat.
The strength of Salts vs Freebase is the same after an hour. They absorb differently than each other.
Nic Salts
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Have Benzoic Acid which changes the alkalinity making it absorb faster than Freebase Liquid. It makes the throat hit softer at higher Nicotine strengths like 21mg-65mg. Which you couldn't do with Freebase without a super harsh hit. Salts also hit your body much quicker than Freebase Liquid. Onset of NicSalts is about 5-20min sometimes less than while Freebase is 45min to 60min.
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Freebase hits slower but is harsh when used in high mg strengths. So you wouldn't want the same strength as you use in Salts if you are using 18+mg.
You can get NicSalts in lower mg's from select vendors that offer custom strength.i use TBD Liquids and I can order 0.5 mg increments.
If you use 24mg of Salts I recommend 12-18mg Freebase because anything higher than that will be harsh and not fun.
I personally use 3-6mg Freebase to Vape All Day(Chain vaping) and only use 25mg Salts 2-4 times(puffs) per hour. Because I was a chain Smoker and even though NicSalts are strong and satisfy I also need to satisfy my habits of doing something with my hands. The physical addiction is taken care of by the Salts at 15-25mg and the psychological dependance is put at Bay with my Freebase Chain vaping at lower doses 3-6mg.
I'm the same, need to keep my hands busy. Back when I smoked, it wasn't so much the nicotine that did it for me ( granted that was part of it), but just puffing and inhaling on something. I just mixed a tester for my MTL at 9mg freebase nic. I'll let that steep for a bit and see how it goes. I was afraid to mix at 12 as this recipe already gives me a slight throat hit and I was afraid mixing at higher pg and a nic level that high would be to much for me.
I'm planning on making my own low MG Salts soon. I'm needing basically everything and plan on spending less than $50 including getting done replacement pods for the Caliburn. Recently found out how to rewick the Caliburn pods by using a Coil Master RBK. So that will be fun to rebuild the cotton in the Caliburn pods and be able to change coils when they burn out.
When the freebase hit slower, does it also "works" longer?
If I take 2 same hits from same strength freebase and salts. The freebase will take longer to be in effect, but will it also be longer lasting effect?
I've heard it does last longer from several Vapors in their opinion. But I haven't found any science that states Freebase vs Salts half life or the effective nicotine duration. If one does last longer it wouldn't be for much longer.
They are basically the same when it comes to strength and effects but differ when I comes to:
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available strength: Salts come in 1mg-65mg (Usually 20-60mg) and Freebase is 0.5mg-21mg usually (3-18mg).
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Onset/absorbtion ( how long it takes to hit/how fast your body handles it to get nicotine)
I mix my own with nic salt concentrate, why don’t you just do that? I started doing MTL but now I even DTL (at 6mg instead of 24) and I love it.
I dl my salts and love it. I find that about half the strength is needed between direct lung and mtl. Has nothing to do with strength but amount of vapor consumed. People get confused and think nic salt is different than freebase. Mg = mg. But when I mtl I use twice the strength than when dl. You can adjust accordingly. You make your own juice so not an issue there.. you will either have cravings and use more or be satisfied and use less.. your body regulates nic intake pretty quick and will use right amount.. so I would do at 12 for starters.
Why not just mix with nic salts.. I started mixing because nic salts didnt come in a lot of strengths. So when I originally switched to dl at 25mg. (Yep it is high but even on nic web sites it says you can do 1-25mg) I used about 4 juul pods a day to quit so that was like 240 mg a day. Well anyway I got a lot of garbage on here that I was doing it wrong and took too much nic. I smoked 4 packs menthol full strength a day. So while vaping it was just enough to keep cravings away and never had signs of too much nic. But anyways I switched to dl at 25 and have been able to come down pretty quick. 2 months and I am down to 18 mg. I'm gonna keep cutting till I am down to 3. If I can. Whenever i drop i will vape a little more for a couple days and then regulate and end up using the same amount. But I still mix and will vape nic salts as I just like them so much better. I could taste freebase at 6 mgs and hate it. Soooooo much smoother and easier to make my own juice taste better with salts.
So all in all your body will tell you. If you dont have any craving for a long time then you are getting enough. If you crave all the time then not enough and if you get a headache and nausea then too high.. it wont kill you if a little high anyway . You are a seasoned nic user..
Are you talking comparable throat hit or efficacy of the nicotine? I would think 12mg/ml freebase would give you the efficacy, but the throat hit is going to be something.
Im assuming that you are using a pod system for your mtl if you want to change the VG/PG ratio? I vape MTL with an RTA and I use 6mg 70/30
I had been using a Caliburn, but I recently got a kayfun lite and Asmodus anani
Juice viscosity and nic level is is really dependant on the type of device, and not your vaping style. IMO using a 50/50 or a 40/60 juice in a Kayfun will be way too harsh. I don't have a Kayfun yet, but I'm currently using a Wasp Nano MTL and I've been experimenting with VG/PG ratios. The thinnest I can go is 65/35. I recently tried 60/40 and that was too harsh and ended up getting a sore throat from it. A Kayfun doesn't need any special juice just use whatever you would normally use for your sub-ohm or dripper setup. If you feel like you need more nic then increase it to 6mg.
Edit:. If you want to use high mg salt nic in either of those devices, regardless of what the manufacturer says, you want to make sure to use small coils, low wattage, and have a very restricted airflow if there are any adjustments.