TFA VBIC Pepper Syndrome

submitted over 5 years ago by mkweiseMissing One Flavor

Do we know the name of the chemical that causes this, and is there a complete list of flavors that contain it? TFA White Chocolate does, for example.

Personally, I seem to have a borderline case of the syndrome: I get peppery notes on the first hit of TFA VBIC that go away if I keep vaping it. But if I wait half an hour, I get pepper on the first hit again. Weird, huh?

Comments

5 points

by TheFrostyjayjayover 5 years ago

It is the vanilla. It is a spicy note that some perceive as pepper. I can see how people get pepper from it but as I have had some "spicy" vanilla in things that aren't vape related, I recognized it right away and think that prevented me from viewing it as a pepper note. A lot of vanilla flavors that are more of an authentic bean type vanilla flavor are going to have this. It's really just going to be trial and error to find which ones you can tolerate and which you can't.

1 points

by St1llFrankover 5 years agoThis flavor... This is not my kind of flavor

Inawera Vanilla Cream has that spicy thing going on for me. DIYFS definitely does too, even more so. TFA VBIC is fine for me, not sure if I get much of that spicy-ness.

3 points

by juthincover 5 years agoI improved Grack and all I got was this lousy flair

TFA lists the ingredients used (supposedly). So make a list of the flavors you get it from, and check the list to see which ingredient is common to all of them.

2 points

by mkweiseover 5 years agoMissing One Flavor

Are you referring to the ingredient listings in their SDSs? It is my understanding that those or not complete, but only list ingredients of potential concern.

So far I only know of two flavors that exhibit this phenomenon: TFA VBIC and TFA White Chocolate. TFA French Vanilla Creme does not, nor do any of TFA's straight vanillas nor does DCC.

Also, many commercial peach juices taste peppery to me (I've not tried any DIY peach flavors yet.)

1 points

by juthincover 5 years agoI improved Grack and all I got was this lousy flair

No, on their website they give a listing for each flavor, in addition to the SDS. Some flavors use two ingredients, others use a dozen. And many use somewhere between those.

2 points

by upboatugboatover 5 years ago

I think it's called vanillin, but I'm not sure.

2 points

by mkweiseover 5 years agoMissing One Flavor

No, I can definitively rule out vanillin as the culprit.

1 points

by upboatugboatover 5 years ago

Ok, fair enough. Could it possibly be your nicotine making it worse?

1 points

by juthincover 5 years agoI improved Grack and all I got was this lousy flair

How about ethyl vanillin? Methyl vanillin? There's a bunch more vanillin variants, many with insane potency. Could be one of them.

1 points

by mkweiseover 5 years agoMissing One Flavor

Possibly it could be Acetyl Propionyl

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=600-14-6

2 points

by razorfraneover 5 years ago

Madagascar Bourbon Vanilla doesn't have one, try it

1 points

by mkweiseover 5 years agoMissing One Flavor

> Madagascar Bourbon Vanilla

Indeed, that has been my go-to vanilla from the beginning. It's the only vanilla flavor I've tried that actually tastes like real vanilla.

1 points

by EdibleMalfunctionover 5 years agoI found my thrill on Blueberry Hill

Just stay away from TFA Creamy vanilla flavors.

There are enough replacements that it shouldn't be an issue

3 points

by mkweiseover 5 years agoMissing One Flavor

Thanks, but it's really more a matter of curiosity to me than a problem...kinda like those colored dot images that you can see a picture in if you defocus your eyes.

Also, a list of flavors that exhibit the "taster-selective pepper" phenomenon seems like useful info to collect and put in the FAQ for others to refer to.

-14 points

by juthincover 5 years agoI improved Grack and all I got was this lousy flair

> Just stay away from ~~TFA Creamy~~ vanilla flavors. > > ~~There are enough replacements that it~~ shouldn't be an issue

FTFY

4 points

by HecticJTover 5 years ago

I thought you were the guy who loved vanilla and strawberry?

4 points

by UnappreciatedRobotover 5 years agoI have no idea what I'm doing

Don’t forget peach, another one of his favorites that he wishes everybody vapes more of

1 points

by Rotor_Tillerover 5 years ago

I tasted it for the first few bottles I mixed, but Mustard Milk changed my opinion.

1 points

by baade89over 5 years ago

I’ll ask them about it, is it only VBIC and white chocolate?

And would you say that it’s the same peppery taste?

It could be the Anisyl alcohol in VBIC

2 points

by mkweiseover 5 years agoMissing One Flavor

Definitely the same in both, and not in any other flavors I've tried solo (I'm not generally big on cream/custard, so I haven't tried them all.)

It's a very characteristic sharp pepper note at the front of the tongue and, to a lesser extent, in the nose when exhaling. Quite different from the harsher, blunter pepperiness of oxidized nicotine that is tasted further back on the tongue.

1 points

by MiLlIoNs81over 5 years agoJust put the DAAP in the bottle & nobody gets hurt

Have you tried tpa vanilla custard? (Not the new one)

I can see how some could perceive it as a bit peppery. Might be worth comparing ingredients if you get it the same.

1 points

by mkweiseover 5 years agoMissing One Flavor

I've not tried TPA Vanilla Custard. I do have FLV Vanilla Custard and CAP Vanilla Custard, and don't detect any pepper notes in either of those.

1 points

by Bass_Monsterover 5 years ago

This makes sense to me. I don't get pepper from VBIC, I get a strong anise flavor.

1 points

by EarnestAccordover 5 years ago

I taste the Black Pepper in: Vanilla Custard, Vanilla Bean Icecream, Grahan Cracker(clear), White Chocolate

1 points

by MiLlIoNs81over 5 years agoJust put the DAAP in the bottle & nobody gets hurt

Have you tried tpa vanilla custard? (Not the new one)

I can see how some could perceive it as a bit peppery. I'm really not a big fan of it as a base, but I'm fine with vbic..last I checked. Might be worth comparing ingredients if you get it the same.

1 points

by Slight_Garage6584over 5 years ago

Apollo Van Cream! THE BEST!

1 points

by Jugglo55over 5 years ago

I don't get the pepper taste, with it. I mostly use LB vbic.

1 points

by MDLuffy5896over 5 years ago

So let’s talk some food science! That painful burning associated with the consumption of a chili pepper comes from compounds known as capsaicinoids, the most well-known of which is capsaicin. (FUN FACT: Capsaicinoids are derived from the compound vanillin, which gives vanilla its delicious taste and smell.) and this. Capsaicin (trans-8-methyl-N-vanillyl-6-nonenamide) is a naturally occurring alkaloid derived from plants of the genus Capsicum, better known as chili pepper fruit. It is a member of the vanilloid family of compounds (e.g., vanillin from vanilla)

So I'm assuming from this that since there is capsaicinoids in vanilla that is where the pepper taste comes from.

1 points

by PizzleR0tover 5 years ago

I like your thinking, and you are correct in that both vanillin and capsaicin, as members of the vanilloid family of compounds, are closely related. However, it sounds as though the users experiencing this phenomenon may be describing more of a black pepper than a chili pepper note, which would be more closely associated with a piperanyl functional group (which is structurally similar to the vanillyl and isovanillyl groups).

My guess would be that the responsible compound may be piperonal/piperonaldehyde. It's found in black pepper and vanilla plants, and is commonly added to fragrances for a bright, floral, vanilla note. While this is fine for food and perfumes, it's possible that the compound produces more of a pepper note when vaping due to either the different route of entry, or due to chemical changes occurring over time in the liquid or at the point of vaporization. The vanillyl and piperonyl functional groups are similar to the point that some cyclization via hydrolysis may be occurring with one or more vanilloids in certain mixtures.

Anyway, just my two cents. Thoughts?