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What are the regulations-recuirements for rebottling flavour concentrates
submitted over 5 years ago by Brawlesium

So, long story short I am in the process of opening my own online shop in Greece.
I am kinda lost on rebottling flavour concentrates like TFA-Capella ( Brands that allow rebottling ) .
Being able to rebottle would make great sense money wise , but I can't find if I am supposed to do it using a -clean room- or if it is supposed to be done only by a lab - pharmacist . No matter how hard I tried I couldn't find any info.

Long shot for someone in here to know but maybe shop owners can help!

TIA

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17 points
 
by Reaprover 5 years ago

Lots of countries don't really have laws for stuff that is inhaled. So Greece might be in the same situation. They will eventually come though, so you might as well start now, then you won't be surprised when the law passes.

Best bet is to do it in a iso certified clean room. When starting out this is going to be way too expensive of course. But usually there are companies willing to rent out their clean rooms for a few hours of use.

There are of course also companies that will happily rebottle for you, although they won't be interested in doing small numbers. In my country a dude set up a bottling facility especially for vaping stores, so see if there is someone like that in your area.

If none of these options are available to you, you can set up a 'clean room' of your own. A room that has nothing else but your decanting stuff. Get lab grade equipment, stainless steel tables. Heppa filter air purification etc. etc. Then upgrade soon as your profits allow.

Nothing will kill your new business as quickly as someone finding debris(a cat hair, a fly etc.) in one of your bottles. Similar situation if something (like soap) finds its way into one of your bottles and someone gets sick(or worse) from vaping it. And those bottles you are going to decant into, how clean are they? You don't know. They will have to be washed too.

You will also have to wear protection for yourself. Those flavours you smell are fine for the average user, but if you are going to be exposed to them for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, you are going to eventually start experiencing health problems. (Check out the MSDS sheets for them, they will have health warnings)

Some countries might also require that you have the MSDS sheets on hand for any ingredients you handle, and might even require equipment like eye wash stations, fire extinguishers etc. (some of these flavours have very low flashpoints, and although the average DIY-er will never be in danger with his one or two bottles, you might have way more stock on hand and it can be a serious fire risk) If you're going to be doing it from home, check with your insurer - they might not pay out if you have a fire because of a home business in an area that is not zoned for business.

EDIT: Wanted to add, the same goes for your car. If you're making a bottle run, then you are using your car for business. It is not insured for business use so your insurance will not pay out in the event of an accident. You can get business use insurance (not cheap) or you can lie and tell them you were visiting your grandma (insurance fraud).

You will also have to label your bottes according to the laws of your country. Just grab your shampoo bottle and see how much is writting on the back. None of that stuff is there because they wanted to put that on there - all of it is required. Google all those symbols, see what they mean.

Honestly, your best bet is to buy the small bottles from Capella etc. and just re-sell those to start. Don't keep too much stock on hand. Your profit margin will not be as big, sure, but you will have a lot less work, lot less risk and a lot less initial set-up & cost.

You might get away with decanting in your kitchen, next to your pasta from last night for a while, but as you grow, various customers, agencys and health departments will eventually become interested in how you do it and how safe it is. (vapers are the worst when it comes to this stuff, as they are after all, trying to improve their health - and you will get the customer that has a cold and now the flavour he bought from you will taste 'off' - he will happily blast your 'crappy flavours' all over facebook and forums and you will have no leg to stand on)

When starting out with something like this, be prepared to spend the first few years of profit solely on the business itsself. Or get an investor/loan and get all your equipment from day 1.

There are also companies out there that specialise in helping small businesses start up, and they will happily do all the legal research for you for a fee (and not a small one). There are also companies out there that solely exist to scam people trying to start a business out of their money. So do plenty of research and be prepared to lose at least some money to scammers.

Lastly, other shop owners are not going to help you. Getting all this info(and this is not everything by faaaar- I could write a rather thick book) took time, money, blood, sweat & tears (literally) - they are not going to give you this info for free, just so that you can compete with them. Only reason I'm giving you at least this much, is because my business is no more and I'm feeling rather chatty today.

Starting your own business takes a HUUUUGE amount of commitment, self-discipline and hours and hours and hours of hard work, failed relationships and brick walls you have to overcome again and again and again. And all of that might not be enough in the end.

Once you start getting succesful to the point where other companies in your area (the competition) start taking notice of you, things will also change. These guys will try and protect their business and many of them will go to extreme lengths to do it. They will report you to the authorities, they will spread rumours about you and use their position in the market to try and undermine you.

EDIT: Either way, those excel spreadsheets you did that shows you will be making mint from day 1 are likely false, sorry :)

EDIT: Wife just reminded me of the fun we had with the import license. Countries usually allow you to import stuff for personal use without much fuss. Stuff from amazon etc. are not an issue because it is likely for your own use. Once you reach a certain threshold though, the are going to approach you about an import license. You will be dealing with govt offices and their procedures, forms and various requirements. There were plenty of times we almost gave up trying to start our business because of brick walls we hit, and this was one of those.

You will also run into plenty of issues with customs and they will happily confiscate your products because of some stupid reason (flash point of the particular flavour is too low to import quantities of this amount, so it has to be shipped as hazardous chemicals for example). You will also find plenty of govt officials that will make your problems go away for a small fee - yeah, don't do it.

3 points
 
by lordefinesseover 5 years ago

Not only is this pertinent advice for the OPS question, but a lot of this advice can be applied to other small businesses. Thank you for writing a clear, and concise reply to the OP’s question, your comment is bound to help countless others along the way as well.

1 points
 
by Reaprover 5 years ago

Happy to help.

2 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

I can't thank you enough for all the time you spent writing this, let's call it , e-book. I will have to re-read a couple of times in the process of creating my shop.

Vapers can be a nightmare (being one of them) so rebottling in my house will be the last thing I will do.
For now I will stick to buying already rebottles flavours from European wholesaler and will figure out the rest along the way.

2 points
 
by Reaprover 5 years ago

No Problem.

Only other thing I can say is, just be prepared for hardships. Brick walls, set backs, asshole people. Nothing about this is going to go easily or simply - as long as you go in with the attitude of "there's gonna be crap, but I will perservere" then you should be fine :)

Google will help a lot with many of your problems, but keep in mind that the internet is mostly set up for the end consumer. Information for businesses are fairly scarce - and those that know will not be willing to share.

1 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

Solid advice, and as /u/lordefinesse said , this is true for most small businesses.

3 points
 
by TimInElmiraover 5 years ago

I don't own a shop, but in your case I would think the laws of Greece might have something to say about it.

Besides, telling your customers that their product is handled in a clean room would go over better than telling your customers that their product is handled in your kitchen or bathroom :)

1 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

Can't agree more on the second part.

You would think that the laws would state everything clearly but it turns out they don't .

1 points
 
by moneyb22over 5 years ago

If you are in Greece I would strongly suggest checking current laws and regulations around importing flavors as it relates to vape. Has become significantly harder and more strict over last 4-5 months.

Typically when it comes to rebottling I would also check with the company that allows it and what requirements they have for maintaining the quality of their brand

1 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

It's true that importing laws-regulations are getting stricter, but as I will be importing as a company and not as an individual I don't think I will be having any issues .

1 points
 
by QueenBuzyBeeover 5 years ago

I would think that it may be regulated by TPD2 and I would also contact the flavor company, such as FlavourArt, since you would probably be buying wholesale. Surely they have regulations for rebottling and selling their product.

1 points
 
by MakeMyVapeover 5 years agoMixologist

You are right about TPD2 and about Flavorart in particular. They have some of the more stringent rules, but other suppliers also have minimum resale prices etc for their products when rebottled.

OP I have sent you a DM about our rebottling services. If you are interested let me know.

1 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

I will take a look and reply with a DM!

1 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

Many well known flavour companies don't allow rebottling like FlavourArt so it's pretty much one-way for them, selling in original packaging.

1 points
 
by juthincover 5 years agoI improved Grack and all I got was this lousy flair

And yet many vendors rebottle their stuff.

And many also rebrand FA to get around the minimum price limits...

1 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

Yea, rebranding is a completely different thing. Only really big vendors are doing that , but I have never seen FA rebottled w/o also being rebranded

1 points
 
by MindsEye_69over 5 years ago

Actually each company you rebottle will have it's own guidelines. Generally very specific as to labeling. Flavorah has a huge document for example. Usually just using gloves and clean glass funnels is enough, since pg is antiseptic and antimicrobial in nature.

ISO clean room will cost a fortune, and is not really necessary for a small shop. Just check with the flavor house to see what their rules are. They will gladly tell you.

1 points
 
by Brawlesiumover 5 years ago

Here is the reply from TFA:

"We don't really know about the re-bottling and perhaps other label requirements for Greece."

Their only requirement is that the label has my company info on it and the label should not look like it came directly from their facility

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