“Tobacco product-a product containing, made or derived from tobacco or nicotine that is intended for human consumption, whether smoked, chewed, absorbed, dissolved, inhaled, snorted, sniffed or ingested by any other means including, but not limited to, cigarettes, cigars, little cigars, chewing tobacco, pipe tobacco, snuff, electronic cigarettes, electronic cigars, electronic pipes, electronic nicotine delivery systems or any other similar products that rely on vaporization or aerosolization REGUARDLESS OF NICOTINE CONTENT in the product;”
I know you’re all gonna say you buy it online. But most places have already shut down deliveries to mass. And Trump may shut down online sales with his ban whenever he announces them. In Massachusetts Getting caught with any untaxed products meaning just having NO PROOF, NO RECEIPT of a device or juice THE COPS CAN SEARCH and SEIZE YOUR PRODUCTS AND YOUR CAR just for having that illegally obtained products
TLDR- No flavor additives! No flavored juice! EVEN ZERO NIC! No Liquid Nicotine! Fucking ridiculous overstepping everywhere. THEY ARE KILLING VAPING IN MASSACHUSETTS!
Boycott Massachusetts. WTF is their rationale? To be a nanny state?
C'mon, mentioning a nanny state in this context is an insult for all vaping community. We vapers at least should know perfectly well what's the reason behind.
That being tobacco company profits just to be clear
yeah, those would be mild words.
We often relate nanny state with some leftist decisions, but there's nothing leftist here. It is an example of extreme right decision, one would even say gestapo order with penalties that remind of a police state. Fascism is the merger of state and corporate power and this is a good example.
This is absolutely insane. I can't imagine what vape shop owners are going through right now.
Luckily, I was fortunate enough to start making my own juice about a week before this announcement, so I'm pretty much stacked for at least 5 years. Fuck the MA governor.
I feel awful for my friends that owned their own vape shop. One friend, who was able to quit his job as a clinician at a methadone clinic (which, while rewarding, is high stress, lots of paperwork and low paying, considering you need at least a master's degree), has shuttered his 2 stores. My other friend is locked into a lease and has thousands of dollars of inventory that became illegal overnight. He has 2 babies and because of his business, his wife had the opportunity to choose to stay home with them. He is now trying to sell off his inventory by having his customers text him, then meet up with him somewhere. He told me the worst part was:
"Last month I owned my own business, living the American Dream. Now, I am basically considered a drug dealer. I never thought I would be meeting up with people in my Honda Odyssey with illegal stuff, as a 37 year old family man. My life is in shambles overnight."
FYI Products do go bad or degrade. Alot of Flavors have a 2 year shelf life. Nicotine, not sure of it's shelf life but I'd be willing to bet it goes bad in less than 5 years.
Not sure what the shelf life is on these products if you freeze them tho. Anyone provide input on that?
VG and PG both have an effectively unlimited shelf life when stored in a cool dark place. Both also have plenty of non vaping uses including culinary so should be sourceable from a non vaping supplier.
I’m not sure the shelf life of flavourings, however most of their primary purpose/primary market is also culinary so should also be obtainable from non vaping suppliers.
The difficult one is nicotine with no alternative purpose. Freebase nicotine oxidises over time which is what limits it’s shelf life, to inhibit the oxidisation it should be kept in a freezer in the dark, however repeated freeze/reheat cycles can be worse so it’s important that it’s stored in a little-used freezer.
Nicotine salts however don’t oxidise and should not be frozen. They should be kept in a cool dark place and will have a pretty much unlimited shelf life stored like that.
Currently living in MA (under protest). This is the most up-their-own-ass state I've ever been to, and I've been to all of them. Fuck this place with a cactus. I can't wait to get the fuck out of here.
You’re like California but worse and no palm trees
If asked, you start making "candles" and use "aromas" to do so. Or soap. Or incense.... whatever. VG and PG should never be an issue. Stock up on nicotine. I've seen some even say a P.O. Box across the nearest state border. I know it sucks! I'd personally avoid cigarettes at all costs
I add flavors to my coffee every morning and sometimes use it for baking in things like frosting. There are tons of uses!
What kind do u like for your coffee?
Let this be a civics lesson that state governments are willing to literally kill it's residents to procure more revenue to pay off loans that I'll bet my dick and balls that there ain't a god damn thing to show for it. How can it possibly be that I'm talking about someone's 4th Amendment rights and vaping in the same sentence?
These clowns aren’t in the anyone’s pocket that’s not the problem it’s that they’re high moral ground assholes infringing on basic human freedoms which is something we should JUST NEVER DO EVER
He wasn't saying they were in anyone's pocket (even tho they probably arr in bog Pharma's pocket) he was saying it was a setup for a blatant tax grab. Because vapers are all evil smokers trying to get out of paying disproportionate taxes that evil people are supposed to pay in any leftist utopia...
> Supporters of the bill say their goal is to protect young people from the harmful effects of tobacco.
>
> Anti-smoking activists were quick to praise lawmakers for approving the bill, which passed Wednesday on a 126-31 vote.
These people just really hate freedom don't they? Plus, i love the idea that they need to protect me from myself. That's my favorite part. I guess the war on drugs has taught no one anything. Just because you ban something doesn't mean it stops being used.
> Rep. John Mahoney, D-Worcester, chairman of the Joint Committee on Public Health, said tobacco flavors, whether mint or cotton candy, “were created and designed for one reason only — for young people to become addicted to nicotine and to become lifelong users.”
According to whom did he get this information? How do legislators manage to get elected, let alone, manage to put their shoes on in the morning being this fucking retarded?
Seriously, fuck the 126 people who voted for this garbage.
Jesus. I guess because I'm an adult I am not allowed to like cotton candy flavors. And people started smoking cigarettes even though they taste like shit.
They're not after the flavors. They're after the nicotine rush. It's so freaking obvious and yet it still flys way over people's heads lol.
I know! It's as if they didn't talk to a single fucking vaper! I literally havent met anyone who vapes tobacco flavoring. When I was quitting smoking, I started on tobacco and found it disgusting. I was like "why the fuck do people like this shit? This will never help me quit!" It took me a whole year of smoking cigs until I realized flavors would make me choose vaping over cigs.
Lock and load. Civil War II. We've gone to war for far, far, FAR less.
"But if your spirit should revolt at this; if you have sense enough to discover, and spirit enough to oppose tyranny, under whatever garb it may assume; whether it be the plain coat of republicanism, or the splendid robe of royalty; if you have yet learned to discriminate between a people and a cause, between men and principles, awake! attend to your situation, and redress yourselves. If the present moment be lost, every future effort is in vain; and your threats then will be as empty as your entreaties now."
- George Washington
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect its country from its government." -Thomas Paine
Oh my god. That’s just straight up criminal. Fuck you governor.
Move to another state? If my state passed a nanny law like this I'd be looking for jobs and getting ready to move. (Personally, I obviously know that isn't always feasible.)
I run seven vape shops in mass sadly.
Sorry for your loss, seriously. It was one of the most blatant scapegoating instances I've ever seen. Everyone knew it was THC cartridges and most likely black market at that, the entire time. Yet the media beat the drum blaming the vaping industry as a whole. Won't someone think of the childrens ~~and our lost revenue on tobacco excise tax~~. When I quit smoking a couple years ago after 15 years. I went to a local vape shop and bought tobacco flavored juice. I vaped and smoked at the same time. The store owner mentioned the flavors would make me quit. Eventually I tried a flavor. The cigarettes began to taste worse and worse. Eventually I just didn't want them.
Can you a form a legal argument for losses due to minimal time before regulation or in this case a total ban? Other than that I'm sorry to hear the writing on the wall just doesn't look good. Nanny laws like that are why I stay outside of Oklahoma and Texas even though that's where the last of my family is.
At this time they look at us like criminals if the ban is passed they might pay for any product that has to be destroyed but otherwise i dont think we have any legal recourse till the laws are set. Eventually we might have options. When the emergency ban was put i effect they gave us 48 hours to get rid of any product possible now its all just rotting in a warehouse
Tobacco has the most nicotine, but don't other nightshade family plants like tomatos / eggplants have fairly high nic content in their stalks and leaves? Could we work around this wording by using nicotine concentrates derived from something other than tobacco? Just trying to figure out a way to use their own words against them lol. I'm not even in MA, but I feel for you guys :/
>a product containing, made or derived from tobacco or nicotine ...REGUARDLESS OF NICOTINE CONTENT in the product
Do you have a link to the actual legislation? This wording is confusing to me.
Zero nic juice is not a product containing, made or derived from tobacco or nicotine.
https://malegislature.gov/Bills/191/H4196
Also this wording actually technically is active on all nightshade plants. Tomatoes are a nicotine product. Say goodbye to salsa MA.
Edit: I know people have talked about the whole, tomatoes contain nicotine thing for a while but I just read the law. Tobacco products are indeed defined as anything containing nicotine and any flavored product that is not strictly tobacco is going to be heavily enforced. This done mean that salsa with cilantro is subject to the same regulations as a peach vape juice.
This violates the Constitution of the United States. It defies the 9th Amendment. This violates one's personal liberty. Vaping does no harm to anyone except potentially the one who consumes it. It's clearly unlawful to pursue this legally!
You can say the exact same thing about all drug prohibition. But that hasn't stopped them One bit over the past 50 years
I would say that's totally incorrect. You could argue that other drugs put other people lives contextually into danger. You can't say that about vaping.
Well You can argue anything. But here you're totally wrong. The one drug that "contextually" puts people's lives in danger more than any other is alcohol. And It's legal if not culturally glorified. Even then it's not alcohol itself that endangers purple. It's people that do that. And we already have a law for that situation, it's called DWI.
And using your logic, how the HELL do you justify the fact that marijuana is schedule 1?!
And nevermind the totally legitimate question of whether the government even has the moral right to prevent me from ingesting any substance i damn well please if I'm not hurting anyone??
This kind of unthinking non-logic is exactly the thing that got us into this situation in the first place
Edit and if we're talking about harm incidental to drug use, what about the trillion dollar a year black market, the gang violence, the rise of the South American cartels, and the millions of lives of fallout that prohibition generates, which would completely vanish without it? Nonsense nonsense nonsense
"Tobacco product-a product containing, made or derived from tobacco or nicotine that is intended for human consumption"
I live here and it's beyond exasperating how willing the majority of MA residents are to accept this, however, this wording does not suggest that vg pg or flavoring will be in scope.
stock up on nic so you don't have to go to nh, but nh will never ban any of this so it won't be all that hard to get.
You’re right they use the wording “Tobacco product flavor enhancer- any product designed, manufactured, produced, marketed or sold to produce a characterizing flavor when added to any tobacco product.” So if its not marketed as a ejuice flavor it could/ should be legal to sell but i think with how far they have gone with this bill they would fight tooth and nail to prove you are marketing it as a tobacco flavor enhancer if it was in a vape shop and shut us down real quick. It looks like they tried very hard to be as broad as possible to make sure all consumers have as limited access as possible
This definitely being a nanny state. The way that reads it's not just flavors limited to tobacco or menthol like most places. That's everything! They're talking no nicotine period. Cigarettes, cigars, cigarillos, ejuice, gum... ALL OF IT!
way overreacting up in Mass. The only thing i can say is at least if they're going to overreact to it they're doing it across the board.... I expect massive lawsuits not only from the vape industry but big tobacco probably as well....
No flavored nicotine yeah. Only regular cigs and FDA approved nicotine cessation But no blunt wraps, menthol cigs, flavored cigars, shisha for hookahs, flavored dip, snus. Anything or anything you could enjoy for your fix
I mean it doesn't get rid of cigs which is majorly unfair, but it'll still hit big tobacco.
One of the other bs parts is that the state only has to allow one cessation method legally now. Chantix assisted suicides anyone???? And i thought big pharma would be out of the equation 🤦♂️