They could have at least mentioned a better recipe!
"To have people mixing their own e-cigarette liquid is crazy. These are very toxic chemicals," said Stanton Glantz, a professor of medicine and the director of the Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education at the University of California-San Francisco. "If you drop a little bit of nicotine on your skin, it can send you to the hospital."
Um. I’ve gotten drops of 100mg nic on my skin and I was fine. Wash, rinse, back to mixing. Fear mongering at its finest.
Same.
People can buy 50mg salts & that's fine. But double it up & you'll die. Because, you know, science. Facepalm
Sorry Prof. We don't recommend pure nicotine. It oxidizes too fast. There's not thousands of people with 1000mg pure nicotine mixing up little bottles of juice, which is obviously what you're talking about.
Who does that? I mean just because you can, doesn't mean you should, I personally like 72mg nic, nice easy and multiplies down to 3mg easily. Stupidity is no excuse, not in law, and certainly not in Darwinian law.
According to the Washington Post, vaping has been around in the US for 10 years, with barely an incident.
> Stanton Glantz
https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/12/28/stanton-glantz-says-vapers-should-smoke-cigarettes-instead-13690
https://www.clivebates.com/vaping-risk-compared-to-smoking-challenging-false-dangerous-claim-by-stanton-glantz/
https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/16/stanton-glantz-ucsf-sexual-harrassment/
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/stanton-glantz-settlement-ucsf-fda-nih
https://slate.com/technology/2017/02/secondhand-smoke-isnt-as-bad-as-we-thought.html
Lmaoo, that shit had me cracking up. I have experience working with hazmat chemicals, 100mg/ml or even 250mg/ml diluted nicotine is hardly a concern compared to the kind of stuff I used to handle. I don't even wear gloves mixing with 100mg/ml base and get it on my hands all the time. You just wash it off...
...unless I'm wrong, and I've been shitposting as a ghost this whole time.
You’re absolutely right. I said a drop before just to mimic his absurd talking point, but there’s been times where I’ve grabbed my nic and some had gotten out from screwing the dropper lid on. It’d be all over my hand and I never got so much as a head rush lol
Gonna have to be the asshole who one-ups your story here (sorry lol) but my first ever bottle of PurNic I dropped off my desk with the lid off within days of getting it. About 100ml worth not only coated everything in the general vicinity, but the liquid hand grenade splattered me nearly from head to toe on my left side. I cleaned up the bulk of it, stripped off and hopped in the shower.
From my experience working with strong bases and acids, you generally know pretty quickly of some of it lands on your skin because caustic chemicals will start stinging, bad. But even then, we would simply wash it off and go back to work. And other chemicals that can be absorbed through the dermis an cause neurological problems like strong solvents, would usually irritate the shit outta your skin upon contact as well. The nicotine though? I'm not even sure if I felt it tingling, and if it did it was so slight I can't be sure it wasn't psychosomatic.
Honestly the worse part about the incident was the waste of fresh nic and just how much of a bitch it is to clean slimy PG out of every nook and cranny of an Xbox controller.
decent quote:
>"Who knows what they're going to put in there?" Siegel said. "This is just what happens when you use prohibition as a regulatory approach. What's really needed in this situation is actual regulation of these products to try to make them as safe as possible."
While I dislike the attitude of treating adults who bought these products as if they're children, I truly wish more people had this general outlook. You prohibit e-juice, and what did you think was going to happen? And instead of the regulators recognizing the potential for a black market to open up (you know like the THC cart black market that started this whole mess!), instead they just want to ban DIY too. Then god knows what kinds of sketchy places people will buy DIY supplies from, cause history has shown time and time again prohibition does not work.
Prohinition - It's worked every time it's been tried. Except for, well, every time.
Hey, wait a minute... neither has communism... so that means... communists are behind all the prohibitions!!!
Hey now, banning stuff has shown great success! Like 1920's alcohol prohibi---
Ok maybe not that, obviously, but it worked great to stop aborti---
Well, at least the War on Drugs is still going on, so surely that must be accomplishing something!
"Following a rush of new bans in September, a Reddit forum on DIY e-juice saw a spike in membership, the group's moderator reported."
And the first rule of fight club is.......
We had a reporter show up and ask questions. Only she specifically only asked to here from n3wbs, rather than people who know what they're doing.
So it's actually good.
But I suspect she just read some of the posts. One of the weekly updates talked about the influx following the bans.
And really, how do you plan to tell who is a n3wb that wants to learn, and who is a slimey reporter searching for posts to take out of context?
>And really, how do you plan to tell who is a n3wb that wants to learn, and who is a slimey reporter searching for posts to take out of context?
Just answer like I typically would. Read the fucking sidebar!
That really should be a flair.
But still, my point was that if we make the sub private or whatever, how do we let in n3wbs that need help (some much more than others) and who we should be drawing and quartering on sight?
I think most of the points of these comments are valid. As well with conflating the story that "these chemicals are dangerous" and things that negatively are taken out of context time and time again, the real issue here I feel everyone is missing. People who defend vaping and DIY are part of the community or at least defend the rights of the community. On the other hand we have "scientists", soccer moms, anti smoking and vaping associations and politicians defending BUDGETARY issues. This is what this entire fight comes down to. The UK has no MSA agreements so of course they are more than willing to help their residents get off smoking because their government pays for healthcare. Over here in the USA the attorney general's who accepted the notion of the Master Settlement Agreement with big tobacco started us off on the wrong foot. Now we are going to never see the end of this fight because at least here in Ohio the Tobacco Bonds go until at least 2057. Yeah think about that for a minute.
>Following a rush of new bans in September, a Reddit forum on DIY e-juice saw a spike in membership, the group's moderator reported. The daily number of new subscribers had long hovered around 30; that number spiked to 336 new subscribers in a single day, followed by more than 200 the next day, and it remained high throughout the month. The group now has over 52,500 members sharing recipes for flavors such as white chocolate chip cookie, discussing how to make a watermelon that doesn't taste "soapy," and asking for tips on how to store supplies safely. Thousands of recipes for e-liquids in myriad flavors can be found in such forums and elsewhere on the internet.
...
>Not everyone, however, is so scrupulous about safety. A member of the Reddit group, for example, recently posted that he had accidentally sprayed liquid nicotine into his eyes as he tried to remove it from a vial with a syringe. He said his eyes were stinging and turned bright red within a minute, but he washed them out repeatedly. Other members responded with warnings to use protective equipment.
they tried to write an "Informed" hit piece that was less knee-jerky reaction piece. So they still pick a candy flavor, they mention off the shelf baking supplies with flavor extracts, try to list the hospitalized numbers which are still associating THC pens with vaping, list a few mixing accidents that probably make up .1% of mixers and had no real major disasters, but mention the kids and pets got sick. They leave out how many people have quit smoking entirely, places like the UK opening vape shops in hospitals now, how much money the cities banning vapes were losing from taxes/loans, how many business owners and employees are effected by the sudden bans, lower lifetime healthcare costs, or all the hard work DIYers are putting in to create some of these recipes. So the article is still very much biased, but wants to at least appears impartial on first review.
We should legitimately consider making this subreddit private. The hysteria over vaping is so wildly irrational and the public has largely bought into it--the last thing we want is to draw attention to DIY while their torches are still burning
No, that would make things way worse. This is a legitimate sub, not a place where it looks like we're keeping secrets or doing something illegal. Best thing to do is what I've always seen done here, recommend that beginners read everything they can before trying, and to take necessary precautions. Hopefully now that the ~~FDA~~ CDC finally admitted that it's the Vitamin E acetate in the carts that's hurting people and not legitimate vape juice, things might begin to sway back in our favor.
The thing is, obviously we have nothing to hide and know what we're doing by and large, but my point is that absolutely nothing about the current frenzy is considered or reasonable. It is an absolute panic and I have zero confidence that a sensible conversation would result from 'DIY vaping' entering the general media zeitgeist right now. ESPECIALLY considering the fact that the thc carts that made people sick were 'diy', and ESPECIALLY considering the already repeatedly demonstrated irresponsibility of the media when it comes to distinguishing between vaping thc and vaping vg/pg in these matters. The have either shown deliberate obfuscation of the facts to garner clicks and attention or simply a wholesale failure to properly report on a health crisis. In my view it was the former. Nervous boomer parents with Kids Juuling in schools mixed with the recent decriminalization of Marijuana and the 'weird newness' of vaping being mainstream all lumped on top of decades of illegitimately associating nicotine with lung cancer rather than combustion....it's a perfect fucking storm if you were looking to conjure one. All they needed was a spark. And it's not over yet nor is it going to suddenly become rational.
>ESPECIALLY considering the fact that the thc carts that made people sick were 'diy', and ESPECIALLY considering the already repeatedly demonstrated irresponsibility of the media when it comes to distinguishing between vaping thc and vaping vg/pg in these matters.
I guess we completely disagree then, because my feeling is that this sub if anything could be an asset to the anti-prohibition cause. There's so much misinformation out there (as you mentioned) because most non-vapers have no idea what's in juice, they just think it's "scary chemicals" cause they hear words like propylene glycol and they don't know what it is. This sub is kinda unique in that we VERY often get questions about what these ingredients exactly are, where they come from, how safe or unsafe certain ingredients are...just spend a few minutes reading posts here and it breaks down the mystery of what goes into vape juice. And I think that's what's needed most is for truthful information to be as available as possible.
If you go making this sub private, especially given the current political climate surrounding vaping, it would do nothing but harm imo. Not only would one of the best sources for factual information be hidden from those who really need to read it the most (like legislators), but it would definitely make it seem like we're up to no good (which obviously isn't true) and feed fuel to the fire for the prohibitionists. Not to mention we'd be turning away all the vapers who are struggling with these laws and need correct DIY instruction now more than ever. Besides, even if the sub were made private, similar sites or subs would pop up elsewhere for everyone else.
Is the information archived in any way if the internet goes crazy and we get deleted or somehow troll bombed? I apologize for my ignorance, I’ve got way too much going on in my life to figure out in detail what sort of protections reddit has in place for that sort of thing.
That post about the guy getting nic in his eyes is from 3 months ago, and all he got was some bloodshot eyes for a couple hours. She dug like a mole rat for any little nugget to sensationalize about. You're a hack, Jenny. Modern journalists have no credibility and everybody knows it. You're on par with used car salesmen.
They also could've centered on someone doing it right. You can't make 3mg/ml flavored juice if you buy 3mg/ml premade base. And premade base only works if you mix recipes with identical total flavor percentage. That way you at least avoid fluctuating nic levels even if you may not know what your nic level is.
Humans make things. It’s impossible to ban anything because we’ll just rock up and make it from scratch like we did the first time. Alcohol, guns, drugs, houses, other human beings, problems, solutions, etc.
You can’t stop humans from being human. This is fear mongering.
The article was much better than I was expecting, especially from CNN. It seems that they actually tried to write a story, instead of just regurgitating some crap that 25 other places had already covered, each one getting farther and farther from actuality.
I was surprised. Keep up the good(ish) work CNN!
I think the more knowledge of what we do as far as DIY gets out and starts opening up as an option to vapers who are losing their e-liquids, the closer to trouble we are. I'm sure these are being monitored as well as the forums to gain an insight into DIY (to obviously dismantle it). Stock up. Stock the heck up.
People who know little to nothing about vaping/DIYing should not be reporting on it. There are multiple strengths of NICOTINE base for a reason. I always recommend someone new to start out with a lower strength. To this day, I mainly use 50MG base or lower just because. Also, regarding the children thing... I am sure far more incidents where kids are ingesting cleaning agents are reported to poison control but you don't see those in threat of being pulled or under such scrutiny. (alcohol too)
"If you drop a little bit of nicotine on your skin, it can send you to the hospital."
At least this isn't on Fox news so Trump probably won't hear about it.
If you drop a bit of 1000mg/ml nic on you, it can. That's why we tell people to buy dilutions. No stronger than 25%(and that only to mix for pods, and be extra cautious). 100mg/ml isn't very dangerous, and if you're careful it will never get on your skin anyhow.
You can't even buy pure liquid nicotine in the United States without being certified.
This doctor probably just assumes that's what we use. And that's a huge part of the problem, isn't it..? Too many "experts" assuming things they know nothing about, and people believing them.