I've searched here mostly unsuccessfully for opinions on how much agitation may or may not accelerate the process of homogenization in a freshly made e-liquid. Occasionally, I am myself a bit agitated to try a particular experiment, and have tried setting it in motion by various means--but mostly just hand-shaking and/or adding a bit of mild heat. Not often enough, however, to get a good sense of how much vigorous and ongoing agitation impacts the pace of the process.
Any experienced opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.
btw: I don't have any advanced shaking equipment. It's just me shaking my brew like a maniac (i.e., several times a day) for a few days.
I usually just shake the shit out of it once, and then once more a day or two later if it's not a SnV. Had no problems so far myself.
I usually do this too. In my experience, very few profiles are truly shake-and-vape-able, but maybe I'm just being... finicky.
From everyone's responses, seems like I have some good options if I want to make more of an effort and up my stirring game. I think I was hoping to hear that, "Yes! All that shaking makes a big difference. I can be vaping that 3-7 day steeper the very same day I mix it as long as shake it obsessively."
Like I said, I get impatient sometimes and find myself compulsively shaking bottles as I watch tv or something. There are worse mental disorders. :P
I don't think the shaking can replace the steeping at all. Some flavors just need to sit to blossom. I use someone's root beer float recipe, if it's used as a shake-n-vape, its a root beer with a hint of the creamy vanilla. If it sits for a good 5+ days, it takes on the vanilla icecream flavor allot more so it's more balanced.
Well remember it's not really an exercise in 'homogenization', it's a chemical bonding process. Shaking helps a little, there's no doubt. But honestly - time is the best choice and all the "speed steep' methods i tried really had mixed results (pardon the pun) and just letting it steep is usually the best.
Very vigourous shake to begin with when mixed - or mixing with a powerful 2aa or better frother or stir stick - and give it a good shake every day or two if you remember - that's about as much as you need to do.
When you say chemical bonding rather than homogenisation, can you tell me what chemical bonding is going on? I really don't understand what chemical reactions could be happening in flavours with unknown ingredients
Well the ingredients are not unknown. But - basically the ingredients don't just mix, they bond chemically to form new substances. That's what gives the final flavour, and why some steep faster than others. The fruits tend to be less stable, they bond faster but also will bleed into the air faster if left uncapped. Others take longer and are more stable.
This is a good question, and one I can't answer. Without knowing the (often proprietary) ingredients of flavoring concentrates, there is probably no way to know what precisely is happening.
I do know that "homogenization is also a chemical process.
https://www.britannica.com/science/homogenization
We think of it as "a thorough mixing", as there are so many other more figurative applications.
Right, good point! we're not exactly homogenizing the juice. I meant it less literally, as in, getting the flavors to their final destination, many parts finally becoming one thing.
> I meant it less literally, as in, getting the flavors to their final destination, many parts finally becoming one thing.
sure, i knew what you meant but i pointed it out because its important to remember the process we're talking about. Agitation can make sure that all the components get to 'touch' each other and interact, but what we're really waiting for is those components to bond and change, and agitation won't do anything to speed that up. So - yes, agitation can help a little by making sure that the process starts quickly and that all the components get to come in contact - but after that it's kind of pointless.
So - agitation at the beginning - very valuable. Doesn't need to be rediculous, just a good solid thorough mixing with preferably lots and lots of small bubbles. Additional vigorous shake for 30 seconds every day till it's done, sure - makes sure everything is getting to interact nicely. Doing more than that or creating a device to provide excessive or constant agitation ... don't see any benefit in the slightest. Make sure everything's touching and then let it do it's job :)
I built a single bottle shaker setup out of a reciprocating saw. Worked well but I found that if I just paused at the start of the shoulder of the bottle when filling with base at the end, I could mix relatively well enough quickly by hand before topping it off. I also noted that the order that I introduced each element made it easier to mix (all pg based items - shake until visually mixed - vg to shoulder of bottle - shake until visually mixed - top off and shake).
I have heard that before, come to think of it, about adding flavors & any pg first, mixing and so on as you describe, but had totally forgotten. Thanks for the reminder!
I might go so far as getting a low-tech milk-frother, or maybe if I ever have a larger work-space, a magnetic stirrer, but I'll never have the ingenuity or wherewithal to build my own bottle shaker--that is very cool.
If you own a sawzall, ziptie a bottle to the blade, and you're done. The other things you mentioned are harmful to juice. A vortexor or a paint shaker (altho that would require some additional work) is the proper solution.
I've experimented a bit with shaking during a steep every day, several times a day, etc. I couldn't tell a difference between two bottles of liquid steeped for a week, with one shaken vigorously once, then never touched, and the other shaken multiple times.
Nothing scientific here, but now I just shake once, really well and never touch it again until I'm going to vape it.
I don't have any scientific info for you, but I got one of these and never looked back.
Badger Air-Brush Co. 121 Paint Mixer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BROV02?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
It's a small handheld mixer. It's super cheap and it works really damn well for me. Instead of hand shaking or heating, you just put it in the bottle, turn it on, move it up and down and within about 10-50 seconds (depending on the bottle size) it gets mixed really, really well.
Have you considered a magnetic/heater there are actually a couple that are even built for the purpose of helping make juice, it is so much easier to be able to create a flavor drop in a magnet and set the temp and speed as well as time and be able to play games or even go work on something else in the house while it happens, I come back from time to time to check on it, and I have a couple of RDA's set up so I can use them to test it in case I want to mildly tweak it as it is made. You can pick one up fairly cheap in some cases under 50$. It might be something to think about if you want I would be more than happy to take a video of the two different kinds I have and go over some of the pros and cons of them if it is something you think you might be interested in. I hope this helps Happy vaping :D
This would make a great youtube video. I bet a lot of people would be interested in your experiments and what you've learned from them. I know so little about chemistry and "deeper diy" that what's actually happening in my bottle under even the most basic circumstances--mix, shake, wait--is pretty mysterious to me. Let alone adding in heat, sound waves, other factors.
I actually just did a couple of videos for r/armmj on how to make THC carts safely and easily at home just using concentrate and terpens, here is the first part...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdzVY1ibDbU&t=104s I will make videos on just about any topic (if legal) and if I possess the knowledge to do it, if not I will do my best to find a really good source, now I am no professional but would love constructive criticism and thoughts on the video if you dont mind. If you want links to the other videos let me know or if you want me to do a video on a particular topic feel free to let me know :) happy vaping
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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdzVY1ibDbU&t=104s
Nice looking workspace. Man, this is way above my pay grade!
I can only offer a few comments on the structure of the video. It starts out abruptly with a word I've never heard: "decarboxillate" I think? So that's a bit jarring. The video assumes a knowledge of the process which I, personally do not have.
You've taken on a big task. It probably seems more obvious to you, what you're doing/why you're doing it, than it does to me. So, if I were seriously researching this area, I would first look for an overview, something more general and over-arching than what you've got here, which is a highly specific fragment. A written companion in the "show more" section would also be important, including the names of the terpenes (?) and other ingredients you're using, some information the function of each and where to get them.
Best of luck with this!
Adding heat, in addition to oxygen, into a mix containing nicotine is a recipe for oxidization. Also, heating a juice can boil off lighter flavor volatiles and thus change the flavor from what is intended.
When I mentioned using light heat along with shaking I was thinking mostly of how I sit bottles near my computer and shake them periodically (probably more often than necessary), enough, though, so that the juice never gets hot, only a little warm. I was assuming that heat alone wouldn't cause oxidation. I always keep the top on. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
I recently had a weird experience with a juice I've been making for ages suddenly turning extremely peppery. It does contain 4% Cap VC, but still, I've never been a "pepper taster" and suddenly, bummer--I can't vape my lovely peach mango cream. Been wracking my brain for what I might've done differently and the only thing I know is that I added 1% of FW Tres Leches to my tried and true recipe, a flavor rumored to have sucrose in it. I wonder if that could be causing the peppery flavor.
Magnetic heat stirring with beaker is by far best for steeping liquid full steep in 4 hours then sit for 36 hours good to go!