I'm new and only about three weeks off commercial juices and I'm just not getting flavors out of recipes, whether it's a very popular published one or my own concoction. There's definitely multiple variables at play, like I decided I just can't afford to keep replacing Crown IV coils every other day and switched back to my RTA, so for the last several days I've been getting back in the habit of cleaning the coil and wicking it daily.
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I figured part of my problem is coming off the higher flavor and sweeteners proportions used in commercial juices so I decided to experiment with that. That led me to this Mango:
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FLV Mango 8%
EM 6%
CAP Sweet Guava 2%
CAP Golden Pineapple 3%
TFA Marshmallow 3%
Erty 2%
You can see here that I'm like a child mimicking what I see adults do, but not really knowing what I'm doing. I read that the commercial juices use a ton of flavors and sweeteners, so I go for a stronger flavor concentration overall, and a very high proportion of sweeteners. This recipe is 50% sweetener.
I'm not super stoked with the FLV Mango, and wish I had bought Sweet Mango instead. However by building it up with the sweet guava, pineapple and marshmallow it really does liven up and smell like mango (much more so than the flv mango by itself).
The sweeteners are a challenge frankly. The Erythritol frankly seems to be a complete waste of money and tastes just like VG. It may end up in the kitchen, although at least it doesn't really have a flavor. The EM on the other hand definitely affects profiles, so I really need to continue experimenting with that.
I can't really steep anything because I still haven't locked in any recipes so I'm weary of making a really large batch and letting it steep only to be disappointed by it. I do however shake the hell out of my mixes, shake before refilling the tank and I'll even swirl the tank regularly to help keep it mixed.
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EDIT: You know my Crown Iv's are a pain. They pour juice out the vents. They're expensive ... but they taste way better than my RTA. I don't know where I'm going wrong with my RTA but I'm back on the Crown and it's all tasting dandy again.
Dude... just try this:
FLV Mango 3%
EM 1%
CAP Sweet Guava 2%
CAP Golden Pineapple 2%
TFA Marshmallow 0.5%
Erty 0%
That should put out something tasting decent at least. The whole COMMERCIAL JUICES ARE PACKED WITH SWEETENER thing is slightly true, but we're talking 1-2% of high concentrate sweetener in some recipes, but not all. I like sweeter juices, but never push over 1% unless it's a special occasion. 0.5% CAP Supersweet here, 1% EM here, 0.5% Stevia there. Maybe some mixing. Sweetener will easily kill your flavors.
Thanks, I'll give that a try later this morning. You're the second person to mention supersweet - I guess I'll place an order for that. It seems like sucralose really does do a better job of sweetening without changing.
Supersweet is nice, but super strong and I'm starting to lean away from it. It gives that immediate SUGAR taste. EM does a filling sweetener flavor that doesn't feel like sugar, so I'm using it more and more lately.
I think many commercial juices use TFA Sweetener which (to my knowledge) is 50/50 EM and sucralose (Supersweet). Just to give you the idea of how commercial juices balance that.
Wait is stevia a vape sweetener too?
God damn, that's the worst shit I've seen in a while. First thing to address is this notion that commercial juices are good. Almost everybody who switches to diy will tell you their old ADV does not match their memory when they try it again and wonder WTF were they thinking? We have flavor reviews of every single one of those flavors which includes percentages used solo and recommended percentages for a mix yada yada. You need to hit up the sidebar bad. Keep your head up! Just because you designed the worst recipe I've seen in a couple years, doesn't mean it's got to stay that way. You very well could end up being one of the best.
Ah man. EM AND erythritol? And EM at 6%?
Thats where your muting comes from in this recipe. FLV Mango is also very high.
Yeah, that's kind of what i figured. I think when I hear that commercial mixers dump in sweetener they're probably just dumping in sucralose. I also was mixing to smell as I added each ingredient, and I realize now that how it smells and how it tastes are going to be different.
I started with the EM only, but it really wasn't sweetening anything so that's why I added the Erty. Maybe if I pulled the flavors back in half, cut the EM in half and ditched the Erty altogether ?
Ditch the EM altogether as well. Use CAP Super Sweet. CAP Sweet Guava and Golden Pineapple actually look like normal amounts. Marshmallow is high though. Take that down to 1.5
6% EM is gonna mute the shit out of that. Swap it out for .5% super sweet
See not only is the flavour percentage WAY too high (is this an old pre-2017 recipe? Those were using weaker devices which needed more % flavours) but you're using the Crown IV.
I'm 90% sure you're not using the UN2 coils (mesh @0.23) because I personally used the Crown 4 for a good 4 months and noticed there was zero to no flavour on any coil other than the UN2 mesh one. I love my Crown 4 but it got quickly replaced by my new Falcon King tank. Best tank in my opinion (bear in mind I've tried a total of 7 tanks tho).
So if you want more flavour I suggest cutting the % a lot, switching to the UN2 coils and giving it another shot. Best of luck and hope you find that special something that'll get you into DIYing
Yeah my Crown Iv's are the mesh ones, still wasn't getting the flavor I expected going from commercial to DIY. This recipe isn't pre-2017; I was doing a single shot Mango 3% and it just didn't taste strong enough for me, definitely after moving back to the RTA, so I just started screwing around with it amping stuff up
Fair, you might wanna try a different mango in that case really. Increasing % seldom changes how intense the flavour is, it turns it more candied more often if that makes sense (think adding coca cola syrup to soda as bartenders do).
I have a 10ml of mango by FLV which is so intense too, maybe you got a bad batch? I don't know if those are possible with flavourings tho
So I figured out that for me, the U2's seem to kick in at 55 watts and above. That's what I originally vaped it at, but when my coils were burning out instantly (like a day and a half) I decided to turn it down some.
I think what I did was create a vicious cycle of chasing the wrong thing; at 55 - 70 watts it tasted great but burnt out. So I turn down, start DIY, no flavor. Well I realize now that it was probably all the sucralose in my commercial juices that was burning stuff up at higher wattage, and now that I'm non-sucralose juices I can vape in the flavor zone without chewing through coils.
Oh ya. And wicking everyday shouldn’t be necessary. In fact I find I get a better flavour the day after wicking. Even the best cotton has a slight break in period. I only rewick once a week or when drastically changing flavours.
Which cotton and coils you’re using would be a world of difference in your flavour production. Which RTA, what kind of coils, the position of the coils.... it all makes a difference.
Personally I use cotton bacon prime and swear by ni 80 micro Clapton’s in small chambered rda’s for flavour.
It's amazing how people just don't understand that less is more.
In the future just don't even use EM because it's one of the most difficult tools to utilize sell.
Use ELR in the future going forward and use the reccomended flavor % or less on each flavors sheet. Check each flavor in a recipe.
It's best to taper off sweetener. Eventually most people will gain the ability to taste the subtleties of flavors. But if you're used to commercial juice, it kind of clouds your ability to taste flavors clearly. FW Sweetener is the one I use on occasion. I prefer it over Caps Super Sweet. Ethol Maltol has a muting effect especially when used that high.
I’m in agreement with everything said about the flavours being to high (it was one of my mistakes when I first stared mixing thinking I’d get more flavour but it works in reverse) I have made myself a handy spreadsheet with a section for each flavours backnote and main note mixing percentage range to reference when I’m mixing. I find it helps. I never found erythritol to be of any use. I don’t like EM because of the muting and only really use it in small amts (like 1%) to thicken custards. I used allot of super sweet when I first started. Like 1-1.5% and moved to half SS and half stevia. Overtime you can bring that down.
Far as steeping; I bought a bunch of 15 ml test tubes and a rack that holds 50. I mix samples in there. Like 5-10 ml samples. That way you don’t waste too much. And I find that giving juice a warm bath really helps to get the flavours mixed up. I have one of those glade fragrance cube heating things. I take off the plate that holds the wax cubes and put a ceramic mug on it filled with water. It heats up good and keeps water warm. Put the bottle in there 20 mins. Then shake it till you can’t see the individual bubbles. Let it settle back to clear and you’re good to go. Fruits shouldn’t need a steep. That’s more for creams. Tho some fruits are potent and need a few days to settle. Some people use small ultrasonics with heating function and swear by it. I just haven’t got around to buying one.
Also. Not much of a mango fan but flv mango is one of the best out there. Def seems to be a favorite!
I love the idea of testtubes in a rack just cause test tubes .... would even make a fun halloween display.
These are like the ones I got. (I had bought a different brand like 2-3 yrs ago; Karter scientific but amazon doesn’t have them currently) Only ones I’ve found that don’t leak. Nice to be able to label them too with batch #, steep time, mix date and mix name.
UKCOCO 50PCS 15ml Pointed Head Centrifuge Tube Graduated Microcentrifuge Tubes with Screw Cap Lab Sample Supply https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07F34XRDL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_P-1PDbMCGKARD
And the rack
3-Layer 50-Hole Plastic Centrifuge Test Tube Rack 16mm, Detachable and Heavy-Duty https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07L6L3NWL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_El2PDbBP57DAK
I also bought a rack with 13 mm holes for some 4 ml snap top tubes just for doing single flavour testing.
I dunno how cool these would look for a Halloween display tho lol. I’d want like clear ones for something like that.