So going through the recent flavour alerts, obviously we know the problem flavours.
What I'd like to know is, how unsafe is unsafe?
There are a few flavours that I really love that have issues around safety, fw yellow cake etc (I'm aware there are safe substitutes)
I mean is there an immediate, serious health risk from using them?
I like kebabs, they're a heart attack on a plate. I like certain recreational drugs. I like hookers. I like ice cream.. I like McDonald's. All of these are 'bad' for me, but there's a weighed risk and you indulge yourself.
Is it the same for these flavours? As in they're bad, unhealthy but you're unlikely to get cancer two years down the line or grow tumor on your toes etc? Or is it a serious, if you don't wish to cause lasting, serious self harm then stay away.
How unsafe is unsafe?
In the instances of fructose or sugar syrup flavors, we know they release carcinogenic compounds when heated. Does that mean lung cancer is absolutely inevitable? No. Does it mean that they elevate the risk associated with vaping? Yes.
Diacetyl or DAAP containing compounds don't concern me. Fructose absolutely does.
One factor is the question of whether or not a flavor profile can be achieved without it. If the answer is "no" it becomes weighing risk vs desire for the flavor. If the answer is "yes" it becomes a question of why I'm being extra stubborn about using something that we know can do harm.
Why risk it for a flavor at all, IMO. Just make a different one.
Not disagreeing actively, more playing devil's advocate, but why not take that to its logical conclusion and exclusively vape unflavored?
I wouldn’t mess with Diacetyl in juice or anything else. Studies are showing that it influences the increase of beta amyloid in the brain. This buildup is generally accepted as one of the primary causes of Alzheimer’s.
My opinion is, if there are better flavors out there, why even risk it?
I couldn't agree more with you, it's just that outside of the US / Europe some of them are impossible to get a hold of. I envy you guys with your flavorah, inawera, OoO, VT etc :P
Where I am we have TFA / Capella and a limited selection of FA.
>I like kebabs, they're a heart attack on a plate
How ? Aren't they typically lean meats like chicken and lamb, and roasted on a grill so that the rendered fats drip off ?
from what i've experienced at least in european street food it's usually low quality meat that's high in fat already (chicken thigh?) + add in the sauce and what not. delicious tho i will admit
Oh I see. In my part of the US they're typically served in short-order restaurants that do only or mostly kebabs and cook them as I described, usually served with rice and salad. They're actually rather lean for meat, although your style sounds a bit more tasty.
https://www.desiblitz.com/content/doner-kebabs-whats-really-in-them
>Also, the fat content in doner meat is very high. 117.2 gm of fat was found in one kebab, which is well over the guideline daily amount of 95g for men and 70g for women.
God knows what's in most of them but they are bloody lovely.
The typical European street kebab is processed meat, loaded with fat, grease, garlic mayonnaise, chili sauce and fries floating in grease.
It's disgusting, I fucking love them. Intoxicating stuff.
The chemical reaction happening when meat is being cooked releases heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon compounds, wich are well known for their mutagenic properties and have been studied a lot in labs. So basically those compounds induce a risk of genetic mutation of cells, or lets say they can cause cancer formation. Also, they are bioaccumulating molecule, so they are going to stack inside your organs in the long term. Good thing to know, there are meat products free of those compounds that exist, they just are a bit more expensive. Stay informed, peace!
kebabs aren't bad for you bro.
They might be a little tough on the arteries, but they're damn good for the heart and soul
Alhamdulillah
The problem is one of risk vs uncertainty. Which is a way of saying known unknowns versus unknown unknowns. Medical science can't, at this time, even say that smoking tobacco will kill you. You could smoke your whole life, and die becauss you were hit by a bus, or shot in the back while in the wife of a jealous and violent man...and thus not smoking related. There's lots and lts of data on smokers and nonsmokers tho, and we can generate some statstical inferences of how bad for you it is. We don't have data anywhere nnnear as refined for mamy carcinogens. I know of at least one that has a 100% chance of causing testicular cancer within ten years of exposure (aslong as the exposed person lives that long) but such is relatively rare. At best we can say "your risk of cancer is higher, maybe much higher, maybe slightly higher"
That is sort of the crux of the issue, they dont even know. It is the most disturbing aspect really, that we have one product which is nearly a guarantee to kill you, yet put a total ban on something that MAY do harm. It makes no sense to me at all. I understand a lot of the shadier aspects,(the settlement money and other aspects). However, if we just banned anything that might be dangerous we would all be living in a sterile room and eat paste pumped into us (so we cant choke). Choice and the choice to take a risk especially when the risk is limited to the individual should never be taken from people, It has been proven over and over, if you ban something people want it will only make it more dangerous and less safe as the people who get into it are not held to any accountability, and by the very nature have no safeguards.
Here's my question. Why does the bottle I got from Bull City say it has "corn syrup" when the actual TFA site does not? Why would TFA not list it? What would TFA benift or lose for listing it or not? They are a food flavoring company. They gain nothing by listing it or NOT listing it. I searched all over the net for rebottlers and the only 1 I found that listed corn syrup was the bottle I got. That leads me to believe that Bull City made a mistake. They are the only place that has "corn syrup" listed for TFA Cappuchino. And when I talked to Bull City, they didn't even know it! I sent them a pic of the bottle to prove it said "corn syprup" on it. This in itself leads me to think it's a Bull City labeling issue. There's no reason at all for the actual manufacture "TFA" to not list it. It's not like they are trying to hide and decieve the vaping community to make a few dollars from diy people. They are a food flavoring company right.
The approach I generally take is if I have to adjust to something to be able to vape it, I'm not going to vape it. If it makes my lungs or throat sore after vaping it, I'm not going to vape it anymore or, at the very least, I'm going to let it steep and see if it smooths out. I'm also not going to add something to make it smoother. I vape juice with diacetyl, it's not a lot or very often, and it's never bothered me. If I vape certain sweet flavors I can feel a difference, so I don't vape those.
If your aim is harm reduction, then you have to weigh the risks and, more often than not, make choices that are likely less harmful.