And I'm floored at how much I'm saving.
Recipe: 60 ML's, 3 Nic 75/25 VG/PG. Cap golden pineapple 1, TFA Marshmallow .25, FA Orange 1, FA Passionfruit 1, Cap Sweet Guava 3. Looks like every 60ml of this costs about 1.40. By comparison I'm pretty used to paying $20 per 60ml commercial unless I catch a sale or promo. That's a savings of over $18 for just a 60 Ml bottle, or over a 92% savings.
NINETY-TWO. Not a 30% savings, not even a 60% savings but saving 92% of the cost of store bought juice. That's unreal.
But wait, there's more:
If you vape say 20 ML a day, that's about 140 ML a week, x 52 weeks / year = 7280 ML a year. That's 121 60ml bottles. Store bought @ $20 per 60ml bottle would cost $2,420 a year, whilst DIY could cost as low as $169.40.
Annual Savings: $2,250.60.
Granted 20 ml a day is a goodly amount, but divide in half (just 10 ml a day) and you still have an annual savings of $1,125.30. That's a mortgage payment in some parts of the US.
My cost analysis is below, based on a simple recipe. Prices do not reflect tax or shipping costs, but rather line-item price from the order confirmations of my first order. These prices may not be current street because I jumped on some holiday savings, and the materials come from 2 different shops.
Clearly labor and equipment isn't factored into this. The labor involved in making juice, after getting a recipe down, is so minimal that I don't even see a need to factor it frankly.
EDIT: /u/SugarChoc brings up some very good points about the variability of factors (comment below) involved and how the savings could vary significantly from my example here.
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|Material|Price Per Bottle|Bottle Size (ML)|Price Per ML|Per 60 ml Recipe|Cost| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Nicotine|24.99|250|0.09996|1.8|0.179928| |PG|3.49|125|0.02792|12.45|0.347604| |VG|7.49|1000|0.00749|41|0.30709| |CAP golden pineapple|1.58|10|0.158|0.6|0.0948| |TFA Marshmallow|1.16|10|0.116|0.15|0.0174| |FA Orange|2.02|10|0.202|0.6|0.1212| |FA PassionFruit|2.02|10|0.202|0.6|0.1212| |CAP Sweet Guava|3.6|30|0.12|1.8|0.216| |Total|46.35|||59|1.405222|
I don't maths (at least like that) so thanks for the educational breakdown. I consider the equipment and labor as a hobby so wouldn't include that anyway! Thanks again!
I made a spreadsheet years ago... yeah. I invested in lots of flavors, so I can make more than just my adv. Even after buying over a hundred small bottle of flavorings, I still save soooooo much money.
And my bad tobacco stick of choice was american spirit, which are usually $8-9 a pack in cali/nevada. I am somewhere in the ballpark of 3 grand a year saved. And I have another fun hobby to spend an hour or two every other week making new flavors.
> tick of choice was american spirit, which are usually $8-9 a pack in cali/nevada. I am somewhere in the ballpark of 3 grand a year saved
YUP. 8 bucks a pack here, years ago ... that's 2920 a year ! That's more than my mortgage payment ! I have no idea what they're up to now, I would guess 9 or even 10 bucks pack.
Now buy your nic by the liter and your PG/VG by the gallon. You're welcome 🤣
Thanks for the breakdown. I started DIY 2 months into vaping. Saved a lot but it is nice to see the actual numbers. Right, not much labor involved and rather consider it a hobby. You can also taste much more recipes and maybe develop a more sophisticated sense for flavours as well.
I don't know why anyone is surprised by this because it's true for many industries.
That cappuccino grande you get at Starbucks? About one penny goes to the coffee grower. Out of what Starbucks charges you, roughly 1/6 is profit, 1/6 is ingredient cost (coffee, milk, cup), and the rest (2/3's) goes toward salaries and building costs.
When you do something yourself, you're cutting out salaries and building costs and profit. All you have is ingredient cost so of course there's a huge difference
Dude, I just made a 500ml bottle of my most premium stuff for less than what it would have cost me to buy a 100ml bottle of commercial juice.
What you're not considering in your cost analysis though, is the cost of the bottle. I think you'll find that it is the largest cost component.
Agreed, if you're buying new bottles on a regular basis. I'm reusing left over commercial bottles - I backpack so I'n the habit of saving any tiny containers so I have a ton of HDPE unicorn bottles, a few glass dripper bottles and of course several PET 120ml bottles but I find that PET isn't particularly reusable as it tends to crease very easily if you squeeze it hard. So far my equipment cost has been just my scale and a few adjustable tip hdpe bottles to make handling my vg and pg a little easier, although I'm not even using those yet, just using some leftover unicorn bottles.
At some point I'll have to replace these, sure, but at that point the bottle cost is still less than 2 dollars a bottle and if I continue re-using them I can easily amortize them over many, many batches probably making their cost about the same as adding one more flavor.
2 dollars..?
That's pretty pricey! I buy mine from US Plastics for anywhere between 50 cents and a dollar apiece depending on the size of the bottle. They also come with tamper resistant/child resistant caps which come in handy for me now that I am not the only one smoking the juice that I make. My friends have gotten to where they're sending orders to me now, lol... I'm not a commercial juice maker, or anything, and have no plans to be, but it's nice when someone gets a bottle of my stuff that it's sealed and locked for first time opening.
Of course, like you said, though... the PET bottles aren't particularly reusable, anyway.
I'd almost say add another 50 percent to 100 percent for concentrates you buy but wind up not using much for recipes that don't turn out especially if you try mixing your own recipes, and for occasional bottle and scale purchases etc. But even then - it's still an insane savings. Your results are very close to mine. If you're mixing for someone who likes a little more nicotine that drives the price up a little but it's still insanely below what it costs in the stores.
Been DIY since 2014. Make 500 - 600 ML batches of unflavored base every 3-4 months. Then I take small amounts and experiment with flavors. That way you don’t put a whole batch at risk when experimenting. Also - when I first started I was kind of obsessed with recipes and following everything down to the tiniest ML. Now I literally follow my nose. If I like the smell of what I’m making, I almost always like the vape flavor.
Most you guys use RBA's, RBTA's if you want to get down to the cost of savings on coils it might start to look even prettier.
I started DIY about 1.5 Years ago. In that time I have spent about $500 on supplies. I have over 200 flavors and the only thing I have to buy every couple of months is VG and PG. I buy PG 500ml and VG by the gallon. I always am so close to the free shipping that I just add a random flavors to get up to the free shipping. I vape anywhere form 15 to 30ml a day depending on my mood. Plus I make bottles for friends every once in a while. I found that syringes cost less than a decent scale and give much more repeatable results. I pre-make my base. 1000 to 2000 ml at a time. I mix it at 80v -17p-3nic (nic is 100mg pg based) I have 2 Flavors that I really like for my ADV. I Make up 500ml of those at a time. If I run out of my fave I mix for shake and vape until it steeps. I Have found That if you order in larger quantities you save even more. If you know what nicotine levels you are going to use then mix a huge batch of that up. Then you have that part of it already steeped. I am also finding that when you add your flavor to a pre steeped base the steeping time for the flavor is pretty much cut in half.
Your cost analysis is great. It changes a lot depending on order size also. 60ml of flavor does not cost 4 times as much as 15ml of the same flavor.
For Example
Purilum Strawberry Ripe
15ml $1.59
2 Oz (about 60ml) $4.59 Or 1.15 per 15ml.
4 oz (about 120ml) $8.09 or 1.02 per 15ml.
The same goes for PG VG and NIC.
Also if you are being conservative you can try the same flavor in a different brand (Less Expensive) and see if you like it. This does not always work because everyone's flavor does taste a little different. But sometime it does. I have one that is similar to lava flow and the cheaper pineapple in it tasted better than the more expensive one.
I stopped ordering the smaller containers of certain flavors because of the cost savings.
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When trying a new recipe I do buy the 15ml containers. but I will do that when I am restocking PG VG and NIC so those smaller containers get me to the free shipping.
Also from my point of view I used to spend over $300 per month on cigarettes vaping is practically free.
I forgot to mention. My starting supply was about 60 bottles of Concentrate that I bough from Craigslist for $20.
I'm DIYer and not buying commercials, but i still believe this calculation is far from realistic. Let's rather put the right information together and it might be more useful for newbies.
The mix in your example is using 6.25% of flavors (the average in recipes is about 50% higher). Ofc some will say they use only 2% of flavor in their recipe and that is fine, but to get the realistic data we need to count the average in recipes, right?
The recipe is using flavors of the cheap(est) brands on the market (one might say FA is not very cheap, but the truth is that every DIYer would advise you to buy relabeled FA, not original, right? And relabeled FA is cheap and below the average price). On the other hand, you are using 20$ per 60ml commercial juice (not that cheap). One can find some decent commercial juices for under 10$ per 60ml (100% higher price in calculation). The point is, you are taking way below average in price for DIY and above average in price for commercials.
Next thing you are not counting is that DIYer will never stay with 5 flavors only. The truth is, every DIYer will start buying additional flavors soon. Meaning that soon you will be buying additional 20 or 60 or 100 flavors within the first year. Because that's exactly why DIY is fun, right? You want discovering new flavors, trying new recipes all the time, you desperately need that eight strawberry flavor since everyone is praising it so much. The end result is always that many (or most) of your flavors you won't be using very much. Meaning you won't be vaping 100% of your bought flavors, but in reality only about 70% and staying with lots of unused flavors. Contrary, when vaping commercials you vape your bottles 100% before buying new ones (and noone ends with 30 or 60 rarely used commercial juices).
And i even didn't count that many of your mixes will be flushed in a toilet (and that most of your mixing attempts will not be as decent as commercial's are).
So, my point here is, that you can't make calculations with 5 flavors only, because that never happens. If it never happens, then it's not valuable realistic information. (speaking about average mixers, ofc some will appear and say they use the same 5 flavors since 2011 and never bought any other flavor).
Also to be counted: you will need dozens of bottles for your mixing attempts, needles, mixing scale, etc. And quite some of your precious time.
A better information for new mixers would be: Average DIYer is constantly discovering new flavors and you will most probably be the same. Don't think otherwise. So be prepared that you will end your first year with 50 flavors min. Mixing is cheaper than buying commercial juices, but not nearly as much as you would think at the beginning of your vaping adventure. Price-wise it will probably (but not necessarily) be cheaper than vaping your commercial's until you build your stash and test and find your flavors, but after that it will be much much cheaper. And much more delightful.
You make a lot of really great points that I completely agree with - yes, there's huge variability in many of the factors. So correct, don't anyone get upset if you aren't saving like 99% over commercial juice.
And yes, there will be unused flavors, I'm sure of it. I do, however right now have 2 bottles of unused commercial juice from years ago that I bought, tried, and decided to save for emergencies only. I've absolutely completely thrown away commercial juice ... so I think that factor is subject to varying on both the DIY and Commercial side.
Regarding supplies, yes there could be variable costs in DIY equipment. If you use only new bottles, only new syringes and tips, etc then the cost of each batch is increased. I'm a big believer in re-use before re-cycling and am using old reused unicorn and glass dripper bottles. I mix by weight, with a 14 dollar scale, so I have only fixed equipment cost that was very quickly recouped. Thus the variable cost of production for me is strictly my liquids and time.
The time is absolutely next to nothing. I would say I put in perhaps a solid 4 total (non-contiguous) hours of reading and learning before my first order, and perhaps another hour with my first set of tasters. Now it takes me just a couple minutes to make a batch. Absolutely negligible labor time honestly, but if you did want to account for it in cost, then lets also account for all the times I've made a special trip to the local shop just to buy juice- that's time and expense as well.
And yes, 60 mils of commercial juice can be hand for less than $20, I'm sure. I would do my best to visit my local shop when they had "buy 2 get 3" specials, hit sales, etc. However that's not consistent pricing, and I often ended up with juices i didn't love because they were on sale. However, it's a valid point, so let's run the numbers at $10 / 60 mil of commercial juice: that's still $8.40 cheaper, or %84. Absolutely not insignificant (unless I'm matching that wrong).
The problem with these kind of calculations is that they get twisted very easily in a preferred direction + that they might be working for you only and in a short run only. Here is another example:
You mentioned you were buying commercials in your local shop, which is fine. Many do the same, however this makes calculations questionable again – you can't compare prices of commercials bought in expensive local shop vs prices of diy liquids bought in the cheapest store on internet. If you want to get a realistic calculation that is useful for anyone else but you, right? It doesn't make sense since it gives a strong artificial push-up of price in a desired direction (although that may be true in your case).
We have to compare apples to apples, use averages and the same approach for both commercials and diy if we want comparisons have a value for newbies.
(more in the answer to the fellow below)
Most of what you've said isn't true for me (for example, buying juices from physical stores is impractical/expensive so I ordered online and I would say at least 50% of my juices were inadequate in some way and ended up being wasted), so I think a more accurate reflection would be that everyone has a different experience. But the OP's point definitely stands. You would have to be doing some whacky shit to spend more on DIY than commercial.
I used to spend £4-5 on a 10ml of juice and, on the last mix I made which was 8 flavours from a mixture of brands (FV, FA, CAP, INW), it cost me £2.25 to make 100ml. That 40p per ml for the first, and 2p for the second. That's 95% cheaper.
You would have to waste a LOT of flavours to make that up.
And I've thrown away precisely 8ml of juice that I've mixed - one 10ml tester that was DISGUSTING minus the horrible 2ml that I vaped. Everything else has varied from fine to AMAZING.
You say you were buying £40-50 per 100ml commercials. That's outrageously expensive and now you are comparing this with the cheapest diy flavors found on internet. This doesn't make a reliable comparison, right? Although those numbers might be real for you.
We have to compare apples to apples. If we used £20 there (which is still above the average) instead of yours £40-50, then we'd get 50% lower end results. Please calculate now those 95% savings and you'll get a pretty different number.
Next thing is that you are vaping £2.25 per 100ml now, which is pretty low again (actually you are spending almost the same amount as OP does in his recipe; his recipe is $1.40 per 60ml, yours is £2.25 per 100 ml). I assume that your recipe of those 8 flavors means about 4% of flavorings in total. That's pretty low compared to an average recipe; average recipe on ATF or ELR uses about 100% more flavorings than your recipe does. See where those 95% savings are going?
The problem with these kind of calculations is that they get twisted very easily in a preferred direction + that they might be working for you only and in a short run only (example – see, now i am vaping this and that makes my vape 95% cheaper than before). Like there are no other expenses, nothing else matters.
But what's the point of these calculations then? If the highest percentage is the goal, then someone will appear that he is vaping 100% vg with a drop of menthol and no nic and we'll have a clear winner with about 99.23% savings.
We vapers are pretty sensitive when it comes to manipulations and misinterpretations because media is delivering them daily on us, so it is our responsibility to be objective as possible to our fellow newbie vapers (as i believe this post was meant for them; diyers already know their numbers and desires). All your math works here (but that works for you only). And since for newbies, then it is our obligation to say that it is extremely unrealistic to expect 92% savings compared to vaping equal commercial juices (it doesn't mean it can be reached for someone - under certain conditions - and on a short run; but the reality and averages are very different, so that may be quite misleading to newbies).
You've made your point several times mate, it's becoming a bit pendantic. I think any reasonable adult realizes that one's savings may not be the same as another's, and that there are variables involved. The math plays extremely favorable regardless.
Let's take my example above, where my recipe cost 1.40 and I was paying 20 for equivalent volume of commercial juice, and let's be *extremely* conservative and multiple my cost my 2, and divide the cost of the commercial juice by two - it's still 2.80 compared to 10, or a savings of 72 percent. That's still astronomical savings. Triple the cost of the recipe , literally just throwing away two batches at a time, and it's still just 4.20 compared to 10, or 58% less than buying at 10 each.
The example I gave in my post wasn't trying to be particularly comprehensive and real world, but as an example that serves to make the point that DYI is vastly cheaper than buying commercial. And they do reflect REAL prices I paid. Yes they were only MY numbers, but they were my REAL numbers.
Even At almost unrealistically conservative rates it's still less than half the price; no matter how you slice it, DIY is vastly cheaper.
you’ve missed the point again
I wasn’t saying “my numbers are right, your numbers are wrong” I was saying that everyone has a different experience whereas in your post you were just tearing into OP because you personally had a different experience but speaking as if everyone was the same as you. I for one, am more similar to OP.