Remember when I asked for everyone's input into update the "First Order Flavors" list in the sidebar about 2 1/2 weeks ago? If not, here's a Link to that Post.
And here are the results. I've already updated the sidebar/wiki with them, but it's not etched in stone forever. If I missed some simple, great, peer-reviewed recipes using these flavors that should be included, please let me know so I can add them! ##Newest Results:
These are the latest flavors most recommended by fellow DIY-ers for a first order. In general they should be considered some of the tastiest, but also in most cases versatile for mixing beginner recipes. This is the result of a contest post in September 2019.
Flavoring|Votes :-:|:-: INW Cactus |48 FLV Red Burley|29 WS-23|27 FA Fuji|27 INW Shisha Strawberry|23 INW Custard|23 CAP Sweet Guava|21 LB Vanilla Ice Cream|20 CAP Sugar Cookie V1|20 LA Lemonade|15 TFA Marshmallow|13 TFA Vanilla Swirl|13 VT Fizzy Sherbet|12 FA Pear|12 FA Forest Fruit|12 INW Yes We Cheesecake|11 VT Banana Custard|10 CAP Super Sweet|10 FE Lemon|9 INW Biscuit|9 INW Raspberry|9 INW Shisha Vanilla|8 FLV Rich Cinnamon|8 INW Black for Pipe|7 FA Polar Blast|7 FW Blueberry|7 INW DNB|6 CAP Green Apple Hard Candy|6 FA Custard Premium|6 TFA Honeysuckle|5 TFA Banana Cream|5 FLV Milk & Honey|5
##What can I make with these flavors?
Here a couple of recipes you can make using just these suggested "first order" flavors:
And here are some highly recommended recipes you could make with just a few more flavors:
Add HS Ice Cream + TFA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream = Daily Driver
Add FA Vanilla (Madagascar) + CAP NY Cheesecake = Custard NOW
Add FW Bavarian Cream + FW Butterscotch Ripple + TFA Dulce De Leche = Buttah
Add CAP Cinnamon Danish Swirl + CAP Vanilla Custard V1 = Snickerdoodle Cookie
Add HS French Vanilla Ice Cream = The Trinity Vanilla Ice Cream
Add FLV Sweet and Smokey Tobacco = The Gindra's
Add TFA Blueberry Extra = Blueberry Scone
Add TFA Bavarian Cream + TFA Dragonfruit + TFA Strawberry Ripe = Mother of Dragons' Milk
Add FLV Cured Tobacco + FLV Lovage Root + FLV Native Tobacco + FLV Wood Spice = The Hinterlander
Add TFA Champagne + FLV Lemonade + FLV Watermelon = FLV Pink Lemonade
Add FLV Cranberry + CAP Lemon Lime = 1-2-3 Cranberry Sprite
Add FA Red Summer (Watermelon) = Bare Necessities
Add INW Cherries + INW Two Apples = Forbidden Fruit
Add TFA Acetyl Pyrazine 5% = Boss Reserve Clone
Add INW Tobacco Absolute Cuban Cigar = Brigade 2506
Add HS Blueberry + FLV Pink Guava + FLV Yakima Hops = The Rickoning
Add FLV Sour Apple = Camp Tiger Claw
Add FW Blood Orange + FA Lime Tahity Cold Pressed + CAP Sweet Tangerine = Sunshine State
Edit: Shisha Vanilla vote number was correct, but it was accidentally listed above flavors with higher votes. Fixed that.
...Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Cactus is probably not a good recommendation for a first time flavour. How on earth did that nearly double the next competitor?
Honestly? I agree with you. The difference between 0.25 and 0.5% Cactus can ruin bottle of juice. But it seems we are greatly outnumbered.
I just... don't think it's a good first order flavour at all. It's extremely polarizing, I'd wager at least half the users just taste aloe vera.
For the most part, I believe it's something used by more experienced mixers who know it will fill the gap they're trying to close. Some poor newbie is about to absolutely vegetal his Backwoods Lemonade because he wanted to 'make it juicier' ):
Thanks for putting this together.
There should probably a separate list for "base flavors" and for "additives / enhancers". I feel sorry for the poor chap who gets cactus and WS-23 expecting them to be cornerstones of the mixing process.
First of all thanks for doing this. Secondly, definitely not a first order list as much as a “mixer’s toolkit”. So many of those flavors have a purpose that if you didn’t know it, you’d think it were crazy they were on a list at all. Also, glad to see the baccos get some representation but it does kind of speak to how this really should be done as much by category/profile as by any other specific topic.
This kind of feels like a second order flavors to me. A first order flavors should give you all the basics to make some simple mixes in a few common areas. Ex, try out fruits, creams, custards, etc. I’d feel pretty annoyed with a 10ml of dnb if I realized I hated baccos. At least burley you can work into a nutty custard ry4 or something. But dnb is a very specific additive to make a bacco ashy.
I guess a zero order would be stand alone flavors for the mixers who want to just one shot it. And first order should probably just cover the basic range of flavors that have many uses. I’m very sad to see cap sugar cookie didn’t make it. edit: sorry missed it. it was on there.
I’m curious what this all would add up to cost-wise as well? Now that, I can look up. Brb.
Uh, why have a bunch of shit to 'try out' profiles? I got into DIY within a month or so of starting vaping, but I already knew what my preferences were, and what profiles I had zero interest in trying. (Which included tobaccos initially, as I wanted a vape experience to have as little in common with smoking (tastewise) as possible. Once I was reasonably confident that I wouldn't smoke again, I branched into tobaccos.
Exactly why I wanted to have folks do the profile series. And also include suggestions on flavors to choose to go with each profile. Kind of narrow it down that way. Just as you may have had a specific interest coming in, some one else may not really be sure them selves. For example, I came in looking for an apple fritter and found I love tobaccos. I still love apple and sometimes bakeries and go back occasionally also. I even mixed a custard for the first time since 2017 two days ago. So who knows, but I been behind or I would have commented on your post bynow and made some flavor suggestions.
This list has nothing to do with versatile First Order flavors. It is not helpful to people coming from commercial juices looking for a broad range of options.
I suggest anyone looking to get into DIY to search the sub for the old First Flavor lists.
No need to search. They're right here: https://www.reddit.com//r/DIY_eJuice/wiki/first_order_flavors
All you have to do is scroll down to them. Or even click one of the shortcuts to the right to skip down to them.
Fifteen fucking strawberries, vanillas, and peaches are totally useless as a list of first order flavors too. Really, what we should have is a list of 'best' flavors. By flavor/usage combination. Yeah, it'd be several hundred flavors long, and some flavors would end up getting multiple nods, and there would (unfortunately) be a bunch of strawberry/vanilla/peach flavors in the list) but if any of us were to come into DIY wanting to craft our own recipes (either because of not being able to find recipes we'd like or whatever reason) then wouldn't it be handy to be able to look at a list and say "ok, I want a raspberry flavor, but not a floral or candy or jammy one, which one is that? Got it. Now a lemon zest? Got it. How about apple juice? Great." And build a list of flavors to order picking the best flavors for what we want to create. That would be really useful.
I think this is about as good as it gets. Noted + FOTW is often most of the way there.
I feel like to make this easier the votes number should be removed. I live by Cactus but I put it in that thread as a "It's great since with some sweet guava it turns into Prickly Victory, best simple juice" (in my opinion) rather than as a staple.
In addition, as someone in the comments here recommended, maybe a quick list for "additives/enhancers" where it belongs (unless someone's REALLY into cactus).
Edit: in addition I'd like to apologise to any and all new DIYers who go after my crazy recommendation for Cactus. I didn't mean for it to blow up like that.
Enjoy it at 0.25% with some peppermint for example but don't overdo it! It's a great flavour, but not a must have first purchase, only in a combo with Sweet Guava for Prickly Victory until you get used to creating/designing more complex recipes!
I accidentally added way too much cactus into my first mix if Prickly Victory (and my first mix ever) and I found out I really like cactus.
Call me crazy but I adv solo cactus at 3%
Grack. GIGI. I've also done 1-2-3s @2% cactus, either with 1% FA Blackcurrant, 1% Elderflower, 1%INW Lemon Mix or 1% TFA Blackberry and 3% JF Lemon Juicy, 3% Fa Lime Tahity, FA Fuji, or TFA cherryblossom. Cactus needs to be balanced so it doesn't go crazy bullying the mix like a bunch of entitled legacy frat bros
As someone just getting into diy, I have been waiting for this list to come out, but I hate it more than last year's. It makes things so much more confusing, I am going to disregard this list and only use it to fill in my favour list if I use it at all. Things I don't like,
- The number of recepies that you can make with them are reducing every year.
- The recepies that you can make don't look very appealing.
**One thing I did like was addition of super sweet and ws-23, I think they are important for a first order.
EDIT: thank you so much u/ID10-T for the efforts you take and the entire community as a whole, I was only expressing my dissatisfaction with the results.
EDIT2: Can pastry and dessert recepies be added to the default list? Is cactus now a profile? Would like to start with some of the things I like and have heard of
I feel for you, this year is a shitshow. I'm going to come off as a contrarian, but this batch is honestly full of experienced mixers flexing their obscure favourites. Many of them are delicious, but very niche. Your comment about the amount of available recipes going down is apt.
Arguably, a useful thing to do might be to try and weight/average the 3 lists together? Or... as you said, just use previous years, they're better for general advice.
It'd be amazing if ATF supported sorting searches/brands by recipes available, like ELR. Helps you get a great idea of the 'most commonly used' flavours for each brand. It's a true shame that DIY is marred with a handful of mediocre, largely abandoned calculators/databases.
I can try looking at all 3 lists together, or I might just leave this one out and use the other 2. I will spend a little more time in elr (kept ignoring it in flavour of atf) and see if I can favourite some highly rated recepies that have most of my flavours and maybe full up the rest of my order from there. Thanks for the tip
Figure out what types of flavors you wamt, as specifically as possible. Like, you want a meille feuille flavor, a german chocolate cake flavor, a cafe du monde beignet flavor, a gooey caramel flavor, and a mascarpone flavor. So then you ask, "what flavors get me closest to each of these individual things?" And buy the flavors that are best at being what you want, then you test them and research them (preferably before mixing them to test) and start mixing and matching (which you presumably had in mind prior to ordering). Picking flavors that won a popularity contest and expecting them to be universally good? Hell, even picking flavors that are really good at somwthing but expecting them to be the best choice for every application is madness. FA Fuji isn't a great cooked apple until you add FA Liquid Amber. Even the trinity isn't a great choice for a blueberry bubblegum.
Yup I really want to get started on mixing flavour profile s that I like, but before I do that is like to try some clones of recepies I've never had before, there's a lot I want to do. I feel like I've just run a marathon in my head reading up all I could from the side bar. I hope I can catch a break before I start flavour testing and research. I had hoped the popular ones might be good. Point noted
Some of them are. Maybe even most of them, this time around. But they're a bit limited in using them exclusively. And like I said, for any given fruit, say blueberry, there's a minimum of five flavors you'll want, depending on what you want to do with it. The best flavor for the job depends on what the job is - candy, realistic, raw, cooked, juice, jam, etc. Some flavors can do multiple things well, some just do one thing really well but are hopeless at anything else.
Every flavor is really good but most of them are not newbie friendly at all.
Rich Cinnamon being there is funny but Cactus @ 1st place.. haha
Great effort tho, i just think it should be split in actual flavors and additives.
Okay people, I love INW Cactus. I love using it as an additive and experimenting with it as a main flavor in unlikely situations. When I see the bottle, I get happy. I can't get enough of the stuff.
Now with that out of the way...
I would not recommend it as a first order flavor. LA Lemonade is a first order flavor. INW Cactus is a hobbyist toy and potential additive. The profile can be great and do great things in a recipe, but it is definitely polarizing and I would hate to see so much of the wonderful stuff go to waste.
I remember Fresh03 telling me CAP sugar cookies only stays potent for about two weeks. I would try keeping it in a dark place and cool environment. I use it a lot. Just trying to help out.
Assume all smallest size (with parentheses for LB VIC and LA Lemonade 30ml) and 10ml for FLV when possible all taken from bcf at time of post:
​
- INW Cactus
- FLV Red Burley
- WS-23
- FA Fuji
- INW Shisha Strawberry
Total: $16.42
- INW Custard
- CAP Sweet Guava
- LB Vanilla Ice Cream
- CAP Sugar Cookie V1
- LA Lemonade
Total: $27.15 (+ 2.50 LB 30ml / + 2.75 LA 30ml / +5.25 both total $32.40)
- TFA Marshmallow
- TFA Vanilla Swirl
- VT Fizzy Sherbet
- FA Pear
- FA Forest Fruit
Total: $37.22
- INW Yes We Cheesecake
- VT Banana Custard
- CAP Super Sweet
- FE Lemon (Sold as SC)
- INW Shisha Vanilla
Total: $50.93 (minus FE lemon)
- INW Biscuit
- INW Raspberry
- FLV Rich Cinnamon (10oz)
- INW Black for Pipe (not sold at bcf)
- FA Polar Blast
Total: $68.26.
- FW Blueberry
- INW DNB (not sold at bcf)
- CAP Green Apple Hard Candy
- FA Custard Premium (not sold at bcf)
- TFA Honeysuckle
- TFA Banana Cream
- FLV Milk & Honey
Total: $77.88 (+ $5.25 = $83.13)
​
Still missing 2 flavors just from this list so add in shipping and extra impulse buys...
Edit: fe lemon is SC at bcf
Correct me if I am wrong, FE lemon is sold on bcf as SC lemon isnt it ?
Yup spaced that. Good catch. Thanks!
My suggestion for a beginner is to do something similar to what I did when I started DIY.
I checked out the top 50-100 recipes on E-liquid-recipes.com, picked out a handful that intrigued me and bought the ingredients for those.
Mixed those, some others and experimented over the next couple months.
I placed another order to pick up missing ingredients to make a various other recipes that I stumbled across that also intrigued me.
Once again over the next few months, I mixed and experimented. Doing it this way gave me time do proper research, get a feel for mixing, discover the profiles I liked and understand how ingredients influence each other.
That is indeed the best way to do it. Find recipes that sound good to you, especially recipes that others have enjoyed, and go from there. But some people still want a list of flavors... trust me, we we don’t give them one there will be posts asking for one all the time. So we do this for those people who just won’t go the recipe route for whatever reason.
I'm not knocking putting a suggested first order list out there.
However it should be supplemented with a few things.
*There are two paths that every beginner must chose.
- Something similar to what I detailed.
- Acquiring the most voted flavorings via lists.
Option 1 leads down a path of dipping into option 2 from time to time.
Option 2 eventually leads to option 1. Sometimes after accumulating a treasure trove of undesired flavors.
*A break down of each flavor profile type by popularity and versatility.
-Fruit profiles
-Bakery profiles
-Tobacco profiles
-Dairy profiles
-Accent flavorings
Etc...
The original thread is still in contest mode. Kinda surprised TFA Cherry Blossom couldn't garner a few votes...
Hell, look at the top two. All hope is lost.
All hope is lost because you don’t agree and are obviously outnumbered? Got it.
Thank you, that’s a lot of work. I already have a bunch of flavors but still missing quite a few on this list.
I can see why a lot of veterans facepalmed by seeing inw cactus at number 1 ( by a huge margin too ). Call me crazy but I adv that thing solo at 3% . Love it so much. Yes, prickly victory is a legendary fruit recipe for a lot of reasons ( for me at least). Yes, beside FA Pear, it’s my go to cheatcode for making fruity mix juicy, deep, and filled out ( that’s what she said )
While it should not be king of the hill, I do think it definitely belongs to first order list. My tip for new mixers: be gentle, inw cactus can easily overpower/bully everything in your mix
Or be bold. Throw a similarly strong fruit at it, and something to bridge the gap, and it can be magical.
Like GIGI ? Im waiting to try it with cap sweet currant
My first order list was sorely off.. Lol. Too many milks and not enough to mix them with.. Hahha. This is definitely a journey. My current issue is muted flavor right now. I need something good to make the recipes pop. They're good and capable, they're just not fantastic.