Please send a message to President Trump and tell the Whitehouse that a flavor ban is not the answer.
Lol, I'm sure the trump administration will read all of this feedback, right after rolling off their bed of money from big tobacco
The big tobacco that owns a huge chunk of the vaping market?
Please direct your conspiracy theories at the appropriate industry: big pharma.
tobacco contributions to political parties
Combined with the bump in tobacco stocks following the announcement of the ban
and you have to be deliberate to not see the connection.
Big tobacco owning a huge chunk of vaping market is hyperbole.
Show me exactly how "Huge" their stake is, and I'll show you what they call an insurance policy. They are betting they'll be able to sink the industry but are protecting themselves by keeping a foothold in the industry should they fail to sink the industry. If you can't see that, I think we might be able to get you a seeing guide dog.
They own 35% of Juul, which is in turn, 75% of the vaping market. They also own all the convenience store cigalike brands like Ten and Blu.
Further smoking is on the decline outside of Asia. Vaping has the potential to be around longer than smoking, so yes, they are using it as insurance, but not in the way that you suggest. It is a very significant part of their core strategy, not some small side project.
They also control the lame side with no real offering in flavors because that is the way to get more people interested instead of going for crazier more difficult to make juices or just ones that are to niche. Those big tobacco companies are exactly the ones who benefit from this, think about jule is already on top of this... just like all the other companies like them, they only have a couple of flavors and none of which (maybe mango) are going to get banned... but those random mixers that make what ever flavor and just make a few flavors are the ones out of business which is a vast majority of the market. You also have to account for who are you going to buy a strawberry cream from the one that sells a million or the ones that sell a handful of them a month...
It's not a conspiracy its basic economics.
Man this is so ridiculous! But action born of ignorance can’t help but be worthy of ridicule.
I love the fact that even though they’ve connected this latest rash of respiratory illness and deaths to THC vape cartridges that all contain vitamin E oil, they’ve decided to demonize every form of “e-cigarette.”
This bodes terribly for vape consumers, but I can’t see how they could stop DIY folks from buying flavorings.
How can they regulate whether I’m using my flavors to make edible candies and desserts or adding it to VG so I can vape it?
At the bottom of this article they acknowledge the vitamin E acetate connection (found only in THC vape products.) Yet still insist that they must continue their righteous crusade to protect the poor helpless youth from the evil world of fruity/dessert flavored ejuice.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/trump-to-consider-e-cigarette-policy-amid-outbreak-of-lung-disease.html
It's not born of ignorance. It's born of lobbying from big tobacco.
And it’ll be supported and lauded as a wonderful solution to a non existent problem by the ignorant masses.
Not really their fault since this current situation has been so heavily misreported, and misrepresented by the media. Putting vitamin E tainted THC vape cartridges under the umbrella term of “e-cigarettes.”
You’re kinder than I. I’ve gotten to the point where I directly blame ignorant people for their ignorance, especially when they make judgements and decisions based on that ignorance. In my mind if you want to have an opinion on a matter, you should fully understand it first.
Look at what’s happening with vaping, or climate change, or flat earth, or many others. These people have strong opinions based on weak knowledge, and it pisses me off.
Sorry for the rant lol
They can't but I'm pretty sure they can ban the nicotine? Which hurts many of us
They can ban anything, but they’re specifically focused on non-tobacco flavored (like fruit/dessert flavor) vaping products in this current campaign against “e-cigs.”
To ban nicotine they would need to add it to the controlled substances act.. big tobacco won't let that happen.
I promise you that they don't care about diy and they don't care about youth vaping. They care about selling cigarettes.
The politicians involved care about campaign donations from big tobacco.. all this "kids are vaping" crap is just that.. crap.
They find a point that the public cares about and twist it for their will.. if they cared about kids they would have banned cigs when I was a kid.
All banning flavored Vapes does is make it more likely that these kids will just go for the real thing and smoke a cig instead of try a vape.
Oh they'll get around to the nicotine, once enough reports are circulated about "an emerging black market in e-liquids which endanger the health of thousands of our young people". The black market which was made possible by banning flavors in commercial juice!
Unintended consequences... or were they unintended?
Obviously media coverage of vaping is frequently problematic, and politicians are fairly bipartisan in their opposition to it. But it’s worth pointing out that it is the Trump administration, not the CDC, that is planning a flavor ban.
I don’t mean to make this a political issue—I have no reason to think a Democrat (or a different Republican) in the oval office would do anything differently—but the CDC is pretty solidly nonpolitical and tends to follow the evidence wherever it leads them... they don’t jump onto bandwagons or follow mass hysteria. They quite reasonably take a conservative approach when issuing guidance to the public, so it’s hardly surprising or unreasonable that they recommended abstaining from all forms of vaping while they continued to investigate. They still revealed their tentative conclusion that there was a connection to cannabis vapes, and then followed up by reporting the discovery of tocopheryl acetate in the THC cartridges of nearly everyone who got hurt. I don’t know how much more we could really ask of them.
The more explicitly supportive messages issued by some non-American regulators are clearly missing in America, but those organizations are equivalent to our FDA (and, significantly, at least in the UK, they have already engaged with and regulated the vaping industry in a way that the FDA has not done here).
> I love the fact that even though they’ve connected this latest rash of respiratory illness and deaths to THC vape cartridges that all contain vitamin E oil, they’ve decided to demonize every form of “e-cigarette.”
It's the equivalent of banning mobile phones because terrorists use them (though tbh I hate people phoning me and would happily support such a ban! /s)
This is ludicrous! So ban adults from enjoying flavor because parents can’t control their kids.
I'm assuming you've never had children. It's not so easy and as cut and dry as you might think. There are ways to get what you want when you're under age. I smoked cigarettes under age and drank alcohol. Getting vaping gear is fairly easy and unfortunately it's become the new craze for far too many teens in a very short period of time.
Anyone that wants to do bad habit or more serious crimes will do it. Like gun control. They will always find a way to get a gun. Good example is Chicago. City band guns but look how many people die from guns. Teenagers and alcohol and ecig- they will always find a person that can get it. Weed- if you do it, you will find a way to get. Banning things is not the way to go about it. That's not going to solve the actual problem. So, all these bans are pretty dumb to begin with. The more the bans the harder people will find a way to get things.
How would they ban diy?
They could try to ban flavor concentrates if the concentrates are made for vapor...like Flavorah, or if the obvious intended use was for an ecig (CAP, TFA, FW etc.). It is all based on the subjective, ever changing opinion of the FDA and what their own regulations mean to them and the agent that reads them. They both write the regulations, and interpret what they mean.
SO, because we screen our recipes for inhalation hazards, formulate products to pass TPD, are willing work with companies to submit PMTA and do other things to serve vape customers, we could be shutdown because the target is vape, not harm reduction or public health. T
This is a situation where a business could be punished because of who their customers are, not because of what their product is. That may include anyone selling nicotine, PG/VG and flavoring at the same time to DIY customer.
Even though everything is food grade, legal for purchase, and made from legal GRAS ingredients, it is subject to the whims and culture of the agencies. Remember, congress never passed a law about vaping, the FDA simply deemed that they had authority to regulate it.
Besides Flavorah, are there any other American companies that produce concentrates specifically for ejuice? As far as I’m aware, TFA, Capella, FW, etc. market their products as being used in the food industry. Couldn’t these companies just state that their flavors are not to be used for flavoring eliquid (similar to how battery distributors state that their products should not be used in vaporizers)?
Could imports from international companies like Wonder Flavours and FlavourArt truly be restricted if they specifically state that their products aren’t intended to be used for flavoring eliquid?
I’m not trying to be confrontational; I’m genuinely interested in your perspective since you are actually involved in the vape industry.
> Could imports from international companies like Wonder Flavours and FlavourArt truly be restricted if they specifically state that their products aren’t intended to be used for flavoring eliquid?
I’m interested in a response from Flavorah as well, but just thought I’d chime in on this bit specifically. The short answer is yes. The slightly longer answer is that Customs can do whatever the hell it wants—you don’t have a right to your package just because it’s legal.
For reference, this is exactly how the majority of border control is done wrt to “research chemicals” ie. uncontrolled synthetic recreational drugs (including the many fentanyl analogues that have made their way into the heroin supply and caused the opioid epidemic, although the law has started to catch up with the chemistry in that particular niche... with no real effect: fentanyl production just moved from China to Mexico using imported precursors).
The one caveat is that a seizure of legal chemicals won’t be followed up by criminal charges, and the vast majority of packages never actually get opened at the border, meaning that this isn’t likely to create risk for individuals importing diy supplies—only companies or “underground juice makers” (which will certainly become a thing, if this happens).
>onal companies like Wonder Flavours and FlavourArt truly be restricted if they specifically state that their p
At Flavorah, we specifically disclaim the use of nicotine on all of our small bottle type products, but we do not pretend that our flavors are only used for food. Yes, they are food grade and can be used in food or as "multipurpose," but we formulate them to taste good in vapor, and we make sure their solvents and ingredients are gong to pass TPD or FDA HPHC tests.
The nicotine disclaimer has been on the label for several years in order to emphasis the distinction that nicotine is not required for any vapor application. The FDA has already argued in court (nicopure lawsuit) that if it does not have nicotine and is not intended for use with nicotine then it is not in their jurisdiction. I personally never mix with nicotine, and that is my right and yours too. We believe that flavors are empowering in order to break nicotine addiction, and to that end never should be included in a recipe. So, in order to continue to be a "raw material for further processing" we make this disclaimer and formulate food flavorings for vapor.
Regarding other flavor companies, you should ask them... The ones based in the US like us just want to stay in the market so that we can continue to serve our customers with quality products. We don't have the money like the pharma/BT coalition to pay off these bureaucrats and politicians though so we need people in the community to go and talk to their elected officials and tell them the truth. Worst case scenario, we continue serving the vape community outside the US and you have to buy flavoring on your next trip to Canada or Mexico.
There’s always the possibility that the sale of concentrated nicotine to consumers could be banned. We aren’t there yet, but my fear is that once people learn how easy it is to DIY, a ban like this could be very likely.
Aren’t the concentrates used for other things though?
This is my first post at Reddit - please be kind to me. It is also the first time I sent a message to the White House so that should tell you something about my convictions in regards to this subject.
I just sent this to the White House as suggested. If you like it, feel free to use itor the points made in it and adjust it to your own taste. I really don't mind :)
I am a 62 year old woman who has done the research- something anyone with a computer could do.
Banning legal, tested, flavored ejuices because kids started vaping illegal and untested marijuana products suspended in wax or Vitamine E oil (and I am sure they lie about that usage as well, who would want their parents to know this? ) is ridiculous.
I also do not see the medical or even a logical reason for allowing tobacco flavored juices as opposed to other flavors- unless someone would like us to switch from tobacco flavored juice to tobacco.
Purchasing vape juice from manufacturers who ALREADY had to have their product checked and tested, is SAFE. Buying THC or CBD wax or oils from non- regulated sources is not.
Do the research. Read something that is not sponsored by big tobacco; an example is the research done in Great Britain.
Don't just get all hysterical and ban legal products that are safer than cigarettes , only because people used illegal and unregulated ones that happened to be made for use in vapes. It compares to banning cigarettes because kids pour out the tobacco and stuff the paper with pot- yes , they do that. And we all know they would not do that, because after all, the big tobacco companies have a huge say in all this.
Is this a link to all these horror stories I keep seeing from deaths? I swear every single death is a user who cooks spice in their shed? I’m a Brit though so I’m not buying half of what I’m reading. Anyone shed more light on these deaths?
Black market THC carts have additives in them to make the liquid thicker. Some of them used vitamin e acetate, which human lungs cannot inhale large quantities of. Since the federal government doesn't want people smoking weed, the people have sought out the most discreet and easy way to smoke it, carts. Black market carts are half the price of legit carts, so even in legal states people look for them on the streets.
Oh man, I thought we had it bad in the EU with our nicotine regulation. I hope this douchebag loses the next election and you guys can get a sane president.
Unfortunately it's on both sides. The MI governor is a democrat, Trump is Republican. I think it's an age thing. Boomers love banning shit they don't understand.
But it's not, because other countries aren't doing the same things, it's not like they don't have people of the same age
Trump doesn't give a fuck about kids, so someones paying for it.
Big Pharma, most likely.
And big tobacco.
More like big anti-smoking. And big government.
Big tobacco doesn't want vaping gone. They want to run it (or at least 90+% of it, like they had with cigarettes - the roll-your-own segment was largely ignored/tolerated as people willing to put in the effort in order to save money weren't a great target demographic) but they still want the new revenue stream. With smoking rates declining as they have over the past century, their old core business was dying. Vaping was their future core business, just look how the big guys all invested in it. Big tobacco is the competition, not the enemy. We have real enemies. I get that former smokers tend to blame big tobacco for everything, but let's not lose sight of who is the real threat.
I'm sorry, I'm angry and this will lack tact...
Can you retards stop with the "hurf durf big tobaaacccooooo" bullshit? Big tobacco owns a very large, if not majority share of vaping. They are not lobbying against it. They may be lobbying towards regulation that will favor them, but a flavor ban does NOT.
The big money in this fight is coming from the pharmaceutical industry, and frankly, it doesn't need to commit much because it is a topic that most people are ignorant of and primed to take a negative view on.
It's frankly just an easy issue to score political points on because people are stupid, not a conspiracy.
> Big tobacco owns a very large, if not majority share of vaping.
Source please.
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/e-cigarettes/
After reading that it seems more like big tobacco is trying their hardest to make the industry much more regulated, to the point where smaller businesses will not be able to keep up with the regulations, and go bankrupt, while Pall Mall gets to spend some pocket change to keep selling Juuls to children.
Many vapers (should be most, if not all, but...) are exsmokers. Many exsmokers view big tobacco as the enemy, because Big Tobacco held a gun to their head and forced them to start smoking, then raped them and shot their dog. Or something like that. So when they want to figure out who is our enemy, they think "who do I hate most in the world?" and stop there. Anyone with any sense knows who our big three enemies really are. But a lot of people are going with feelings rathe r than logic.
I hope everyone has their introduction to DIY posts readied for the influx of new users. Shits gonna be wild. I generally recommend the "logical increments of DIY" posts as they're very helpful for getting started.
I have a few guides but they're a couple years old.
I think if they are gonna ban flavored ecigs they should ban cigarettes too. Then again the gov. wouldn't get the M.S.A money . This is all about the tobacco companies losing millions every day to vaping.
Oh and if adults don't like flavors they should also ban flavored alcohol . well hell ban all alcohol it kills more people than vaping.
Can anyone link to a good video or article that explains the process of creating your own flavored PG concentrates? This may be the only route to go in the near future.
Nope it's you 14 year olds. How did you get ahold of your parents credit card number?
Stop the Trump hate. This bill is has bipartisan support. I live in Illinois and Durban covered this completely. Durban is a Dem and in full support of the pending legislation.