Hi guys, so yeah Michigan is fucked for liquids but I'm not about to go back to cigarettes so here I am.
My question is which would be a better choice, ordering unflavored eliquid from somewhere like Liquid Barn and adding One Shot flavorings... or going the route of just jumping in to fully mixing everything by way of starting with a DIY kit like the one from Nicotine River?
I'm not interested in experimenting with recipes and trying to find new flavors (yet). Right now I just want to have something I can mix easily, steep for however long is needed, then vape and carry on with my day.
Also, the ban is on flavored eliquid so my monkey brain is saying "unflavored eliquid should be exempt from that, right?" Just in case our cunt of a Governor gets more wild hairs tickling her butthole and she decides to ban that too, would it be a better idea for me to just start by going the route of mixing everything myself instead of using unflavored eliquid?
Thanks for any help or advice you guys can offer!
Edit, got a reply from Liquid Barn about shipping to Michigan. Here
Edit, spoke to Wizard Labs. They can still ship to Michigan but that might change once the ban is fully released.
I say jump in. When you do it later, you'll regret not having started it sooner.
I know what you mean but it's kind of daunting.
It doesn't have to be... just buy the shit and start doing it. Everyone tries to make it out like its some kind of science, but I have been making my own juice for like 8 years, never measure anything, just add a little of this and a little of that and am 99% happy with the juice I make. If its too hot (too much nic) dilute it a little. Don't like the flavor? dump it out, it only cost like 5c for the 10ml you made...
Just buy some PG, VG, nicbase and flavors and go to town - it's impossible to fuck up if you give it a try.
I thought exactly the same before I began, but mixing your own eliquid is actually ridiculously easy, if done by weight. Just have a recipe or a one shot ready, throw it in with the nicotine and shake. Done.
Well as a fellow Michigander, I’ll tell you that from what I’ve seen, it’s only on prepared eliquid. So DIY shouldn’t be affected. As for how to start, personally I’ve been using Liquid Nicotine Wholesalers for premixed liquid. Having a small child in the house, I didn’t want to have something as dangerous as pure nicotine anywhere near them. It throws off my mix’s a little bit, but I’m happy with it and have saved so much money.
> something as dangerous as pure nicotine anywhere near them
Just for clarity: what we here typically buy is 100 mg/mL nicotine, which is actually a 10% dilution. Pure nic is 1,000 mg/mL and is not available for regular people to buy in the US.
Not trying to nitpick, I wouldn't want children around 100mg either but I don't want someone to see 'pure nic' offered for sale from outside the US thinking that means our usual 100mg as that could have quite dangerous consequences
First:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/210753055413633025/618983446177382410/image0.png
Looks like only allowed to have 4 bottles mixed at any time if you want to stay legal.
Second:
Tobacco flavors are still allowed regardless, but only tobacco. If you can live with that, check out places that sell NET juices.
Third:
Why not both? A couple bottles of one shot to have something while you figure out proper mixing. It's really not hard, but a fall back is nice.
Fourth:
If you're in Detroit area a quick jaunt to Toledo, or border cities in Ontario will let you buy liquid normally, but that 4 bottle max will hurt, so go for 120mL bottles.
Is that 4 bottles of any single flavor? Or four bottles of any flavor? That seems pretty vague, not to mention completely oblivious to how most people vape. Or I guess it could be on purpose.
Four bottles with flavor in them they are saying gives them a presumption that you intend to sell. Doesn't matter the flavor for that part. They could all be differing or all the same.
And regulators understanding what they're regulating? Not going to happen.
I used to use liquid barn and their one shots. It's not tough to do it completely on your own. I use nicotine river as they have good prices and tons of flavors. I picked up a digital scale off Amazon for about $10 and I'm off
Do you just buy unflavored liquid and mix in the flavors or do you buy everything separately?
PG, VG, and your nicotine (which is also either PG, VG, or both) should be bought seperately if you want any kind of control over your target nicotine and target PG/VG ratio
The easiest way to go about it is to buy one shot flavorings from Liquid Barn or Ecig Express, PG, VG and empty bottles from either of them, and some 100mg nic from Vaperstek (I recommend VG based nic, it tends to store better) and an American Weigh Scale LB-501 from amazon or somewhere similar so you can mix by weight, they cost like $25 (it’s way simpler to do it that way).
Then just plug all of the numbers into e-liquid-recipes.com and you’re good to go, just mix the weights it tells you to.
So a basic run through and example of how to do everything if you were using a 1 shot flavor (let’s say DIY or Dies Watermalone one shot from Liquid Barn) and wanted to mix a 60ml bottle of 3mg e liquid at a 70vg/30pg ratio you would just plug in your desired ratios and desired nic strength, along with the base strength of your nicotine and it’s base carrier(using VG in the example pic),click the “add flavoring” button, put in the flavorings name with your mix percentage (usually about 10% for one shots, they almost always tell you how much of it to use) then save your recipe and just mix the weights that it tells you.
Example 1, Recipe creation screen
Example 2, Finished recipe/mixing screen
All totaled out, everything should cost a maximum of $100 or less depending on how much flavoring, nicotine, and PG/VG you buy. Also recommend putting some nic in a chubby gorilla bottle so you don’t have to worry about spilling it. For long term storage brown or blue glass bottles stored in a freezer.
Sorry for the long post and if anything sounded confusing, I tried to make it as simple as possible.
Edit: forgot to add, in the pics I posted on the finished recipe screenshot you want to focus on the side that says grams, not ML since I was talking about mixing by weight.
This honestly helps a lot. I've been pouring over DIY videos, guides, reddit posts, and websites like NicRiver, LiquidBarn, and Liquid Nicotine Wholesalers and I just had a moment where I said out loud, "Fuck, this doesn't even seem that hard."
Honestly it’s easy as fuck to do, especially one shots mixed by weight or mixing other people’s recipes. It gets tricky when you decide you want to mix your own custom flavor, but even after a while that gets pretty easy because you’ll get to know the flavors and what they’ll be good with, what they probably won’t go with, etc. It can be overwhelming at first but it gets easy.
If you need links for the nicotine I recommend I’ll PM it to you, you can get the scale I recommended right here
My biggest piece of advice for if/when you decide to create your own recipe though is to make sure you try the flavors solo mixed in a 15ml tester bottle with no nic at different flavoring percentages on an RDA that has good flavor to really get a better understanding of them before you mix them with other flavors.
I’ve been mixing for the last 3 years, it’s definitely a lot easier now than it was when I started, it could be pretty frustrating at times but now I can usually come up new recipes like it’s nothing at this point lol.
I know you can't post links to websites that sell Nicotine so yeah I'd appreciate anything you can offer through PMs.
My thing is that I wanna keep it simple. If I can find good recipes for a Blue Raspberry, a Lemonade, and a Mixed Berry Menthol/Koolada to rotate through the days then I'll be happy. I'm not looking to start mixing any complicated recipes, at least not right now.
I would agree with the others recommending to just jump in with premix and one shots from liquid barn. Thats the easiest way. If you feel like getting more in depth you can always go with their kit, but premix and a flavor profile you like is so easy to start with. If you go with the DIY kit, make sure you get the scale kit and not with labware. Much more precise and virtually no clean up.
You can get a 1 liter bottle of 70/30 premixed juice for around $15. All you need is some flavores and a scale to weight it. And some empty bottles to put it in. Thats it.
When you say flavors you mean one shots?
I've never done one shots, but it seems to me that of you're going to do that you might as well go all in and mix your own from the start. The hardest part about starting is deciding which flavors to get, but if you already know what you like then a little research for a couple of recipes is fairly easy. Just my humble opinion, but mixing one shots or following simple recipes should be pretty much equal effort, and having your own diy supplies will have a much bigger payoff for you.
https://alltheflavors.com/ has tons of great recipes. For me, I personally love Mustard Milk (strawberries and cream) by Queuetue and Best Damn Pink Lemonade by Vurve. There are tons of other great recipes there, check it out.
Find a few recipes to match your taste then just buy those flavorings (along with your VG,PG and nic). Don't fall into the new mixer trap of buying a bunch of flavors that sound good, you will probably end up with many you will not ever use. I like https://www.bullcityflavors.com/ but there are other good flavor vendors out there.
Do yourself a favor and don't even try syringes. Buy a precision scale (15$ on Amazon) and mix by weight.
VG is a major PITA to pull with syringes. The all thing would take 10x longer if I did it by volume.
Condiment bottles (like the ones used for ketchup) make dispensing VG much easier than syringes if you are going to mix by weight (which I highly suggest).
What about unicorn or chubby gorilla bottles?
Just remember that for a 30mL bottle you are going to be putting in about 26 grams of VG (or 20.8 mL) for 70/30 mix. Unicorn/CG bottles will work but the spout is kind of small and will take awhile to get the quantity you need. VG i quite thick, so if you can ream out the spout, you will be okay.
To follow up, here’s something’s I grabbed to get started with mixing.
American Weigh Scales LB-501... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005UGBG20 ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
This scale has worked amazingly. I don’t think I’ve had to change the batteries yet. Just make sure you calibrate it when you get it and always make sure it’s set to grams when you start mixing.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GUIMD9Q?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
These bottles work great with storing premix. I buy it buy the gallon, so four of these bottle will hold that. Keeps the nicotine fresh. Also be sure to store in a cool dark place.
510 Central Boston Round LDPE... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072FSMJWG?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
These bottles are good priced and fairly leak resistant. My pre mix is 10/90 pg/vg, since the flavoring is all pg based. Anything with a smaller nozzle is a huge pain to get out so the wider nozzle helps here. It can be a bit tricky depending on your tank. Most newish ones seem have a big enough hole though.
Anymore questions feel free to ask! You found the right place. Everything I know about DIY I learned off this subreddit. Good luck!
Check out this Michigan Mega Thread
I used nicotine river when i first started. Ill say the kit is nice, but you wont use nearly half the stuff in it. All you need is a scale (digital to .01 accuracy) , LDPE bottles which can be bought on amazon, latex gloves, liquid nicotine, and PG and VG from amazon, and flavors. I bought my VG from amazon for $20 for a gallon. Liquid nicotine i buy from vaportek. And flavors i buy from whatevers cheapest atm..so either bull city flavors, nicotine river, wizard labs etc
As someone who started DIY almost exactly a year and a half ago, I have some tips on what not to do:
DON'T MIX BY VOLUME - You will hate yourself and all of the stupid syringes you have to clean. And you'll feel like you should keep doing it because of the sunk cost fallacy. Just buy a scale. Once you do, mixing is so dang easy.
More flavor isn't always more flavor - Sometimes if you want to bump something up and have it be more intense, adding more or it will work. Sometimes you'll get a flaming garbage pile. Usually more flavor variety is better than quantity. Keep lurking here, you'll get a feel for how to use different flavors together. Also get some sweetener, it'll shorten your coil lifespan but if you've been buying premium juice you'll want it.
Kits aren't always best, but neither is just buying single flavors - Just find some recipes that excite you and buy the ingredients, eventually you'll be able to make other recipes without buying anything. But by all means, if you see a nice solo flavor, get it. But I started theorycrafting recipes too early and bought some crappy stuff, like INW Mango. Nearly every flavor you can find has been given a nice review by someone on here, read it before you spend that money.
Don't be afraid to throw out juice - I didn't start mixing my own recipes for a while, because of some aforementioned crappy ones earlier. But after the initial investment, making juice is very cheap, so don't be afraid to try things. Personally, I use 30ml testers because I can't be assed to get any other sizes, and it seems annoying scaling everything down to 10ml.
Also, as a side note, the app LiqCalc is super useful, and personally I find it a lot nicer to store my personal mixes than the big websites, ELR and ATF.