Knowing that anise and licorice are one of those lesser used - and also enjoyed flavors, u/isuamadog and yours truly set out sail to try a few of them and share our notes with you.
They might be useful to someone out there.
Hence, this is not classified as a flavor review, but more of guidelines.
We tested the following:
- TFA Horehound
- INW Lukrecja (INW Liquorice)
- MB Anise Star
- FA Anise
- TFA Absinthe
Horehound:
We started this at 1% and neither of us picked up a whole lot of flavor, other than some menthol - this was around 55w to 60w. Along the menthol, we detected weak notes of caramel some anise. The one that stood out was really the menthol.
We bumped it up to 1.5% and oh dear... The menthol packs a punch at that point and we started to detect more fruity notes here - sort of citrusy notes.
It's very light on the licorice, hence we can see this being used for many other things than just a licorice.
u/isuamadog mentioned it could work well in a citrus soda as an example.
Suggested starting point of this in a mix would be 0.25-0.5% and go from there.
We probably wouldn't pair this up against bakeries and tobaccos, but anything else it can definitely work with, as it does have many nuances to it.
u/ediblemalfunction made a Ricola style candy using it.
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INW Lukrecja (INW Liquorice):
We solo tested this at 1% and the flavor here surprised us.At first, it was SUPER weird - It's a typical case of you reading the label and expect a flavor, but you're getting something else. Typically, that's a bad thing, but in this case it was a very positive experience.
The flavor here has nothing to do with licorice - not in the sense of anise or salmiak at least. It does have tones of it, kinda like VT Fig, but the flavor for this one is almost a spot on spiced prune.
It does lack some throat hit and that spice is hard to detect what is - but it's there.
The spice comes with some smoked notes as well plus it has a very delightful round texture.
u/isuamadog said and I quote: "almost smoked, like you took a prune and toasted it on the grill".
What makes this one really unique is the almost jelly-ish body it has. It's sweet, but not sweet as a candy - natural sweetness would be the correct term.
Pairings for this would definitely be bakeries and tobaccos and definitely with other licorice flavors as well - such as FA Black Touch.
Can also be used with darker fruits - but should probably be kept away from the more brighter fruits.
In a mix, this can probably be used anywhere from 0.25-1%.
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MB Anise Star:
Started this at 1% and before we even tried it, we noticed it had a very weak smell.
Based on that, we already from the begining bumped it up to 1.5%.
No licorice flavor this one at all. What we could detect was what the label says - Anise star spice. But also comes with extra added sweetness, that kinda made it a little weird.
We agreed, that this flavor is what FLV Root Beer is missing.
After that, we found our big boy pants and bumped it up to 3% just to see what would happen.
Surprisingly little actually. Not much changed in the flavor, with the exception that a minor of the sweetness went away and the anise appeared a little brighter. Although, the anise was also accompanied by a terrible off-note of a metallic taste which was not pleasant at all.
That combined gives you a super weird after-taste, that doesn't really sit well with anything.
Pairings for this would again be beverages or teas. There are nothing about this flavor that we can see being used for anything but those.
Keep it low in a mix - 0.25-0.5%.
This was by far our least likeable of the tests we did.
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FA Anise:
Starting off at 1% as per usual by now.
The smell of this - ooooh snap, it's delicious! It's a straight up anise as promised, but it also comes with an incredible good tasting under-note that almost has a "saltiness" to it.
Even at 1%, this packs a punch of flavor - so the category here is your typical FA flavor that works brilliant in lower percentages.
The notes in this are sharp and adds edge, but not in an uncomfortable way. This would have the ability to bend a mix and make it different.
It's rich and full in flavor, but it also stops in flavor quickly - meaning, the flavor is there and the next second, it gone again. This is one of those flavors that could work very well with CAP Licorice, as it does add what the CAP Licorice tend to be missing to make it a pure full licorice.
The background notes it comes with is very similiar to those notes you'd find in your typical Scandinavian licorice candy, which is very good.
Sweet, salty and full - in that order. And it brings that very delicious "zing" that makes flavors really pop.
Parings for this one is a bit of a broad term. It can work very well in candies, but also in spiced and floral mixes, beverages, tobaccos - maybe not so much in bakeries, but I'm sure someone will make that work too. All around, we can almost see this work with anything - except bright fruits, no!
In a mix it's a 0.3-0.5% type - higher than that and it would take over and bully anything you'd pair it with.
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TFA Absinthe:
We'll be honest with you. This one terrified us before we even started, but none the less; big boy pants out and on and we hit it straight off at 5%.
To start out, the smell of this is straight up absinthe - no more, no less.Taste-wise, we have probably never come across a single flavor that had this many nuances as TFA Absinthe does. One moment it's sweet, the next it gets weird and finally it bitter and delicious. All three stages lingers in your mouth at the same time at the end.
Weird taste, but so seriously delicious.
As many other salmiak based (and I do believe this is salmiak based, not anise), TFA Absinthe comes with a tongue-numbing "zing" to it. Some like it, some don't. For u/isuamadog and I it's a win.
The sweetness this flavor comes with is very welcoming and it does blend in well with the salmiak the licorice in it comes with.
Parings for this one would be booze, as it does lack the boozy vibe to it. Maybe some whiskey or gin - whatever booze floats your boat and does it for you.
There are a good amount of recipes on ATF for this one, ranging everywhere from candy to beverages, hell even a fruit mixture as well.
In a mix, this would probably do its best around 2-3%.
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That was pretty much what we had for you. We apologize, that we didn't add in the hardware used, but there were two of us after all. We do hope, that someone will find this information useful, should they want to jump into a darker rabbit hole.
You did the work for both of us! Damn man, nice summary.
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I will add that I tried FW Licorice (which kitty did not have) and CAP Licorice and FA Black Touch (both which he'd already used and knew well).
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FW Licorice - tested at 1% it was a little faint licorice taste, not sweet or bitter but just faded and without too much body. Felt like a bit of TPA Absinthe without all the weirdness or business. I can see this being used to build your own Absinthe style flavor from scratch or even to use in combination with TPA Absinthe if you wanted to keep it from bullying a mix and lowering it a bit.
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CAP Licorice - tested at 2% i found it a little floral and sweet with a hint of zing. like a 3/10 on the licorice scale. i didn't get any body out of it and a slight metallic taste that came with the zing that i have seen Kitty cover up easily in a mix. on the whole this seems like a solid candy-ish type of licorice that can also be used to sort out some of the other harsher flavors.
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FA Black Touch - i tested at 2% and took absolutely no notes thinking i would remember it all and i completely forgot everything. I did experiment with it and some tobaccos haphazardly because i suspect it will fit in nicely there. Perhaps you could speak to that too, Kitty?
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I feel like VT Fig should get a mention as a starter licorice as it is like 50% of the way there but more fruity but nowhere near a real licorice like some of the ones we tried.
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Lastly, try Black Custard by u/Staybert, Black Swirl, or Licorice Berry Much! by Kitty if you want to see what the hype is about. I'm sure there is more to come...
FA Black Touch holds a special place in my heart.
It's nearly perfect, but what I'm missing from it is a touch of floral salmiak, to really make it perfect.
It does have a nice amount - but not too much, of anise in it mixed with a more traditional styled european licorice. This makes it versatile, since the sweetness in works both for candies, darker fruits, beverages and certain cream based desserts. I can see it working very fine in a tobacco as well, as long as its paired correctly with something that adds a little spice.
To me, a great duo is 2% FA Black Touch and 1.5% CAP Licorice - add/substract to your likings and what works for your profile.
Thank you for the notes.
What tobaccos do the two of you like with anise or licorice? I was a cigarette smoker and don't have a taste for pipe tobacco, if that helps narrow it down.
Honestly, I dont feel I have that answer yet but we are going to work on that as our next project.
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Before I had all of these flavors, all I had that came close was VT fig, which isnt a bad choice since it's so not in your face, by comparison, to the flavors described here. My first attempt was this http://alltheflavors.com/recipes/157889#licorice_bacco_v1_by_nowar and I figured dark rich BFP/Native/VA would be good dark smokey balance. looking for other recipes after, i found this: https://alltheflavors.com/recipes/137576#newton_s_pipe_by_ebc88 which I was pretty close to. u/ebc88 had another recipe that is linked in the description that got a 3 star review from someone who doesnt like licorice *cough* u/ID10-T *cough* but I think I'd give newton's pipe a try instead of trying to balance out my own.
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So im not sure I can answer your question yet but here's somewhere to start. We are always in discord and will be working on this probably for a while.
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tl; dr - ideas: Inw has potential for something a little smokey with prune taste for like a bold ciggie type, cap maybe for a sweeter cig, horehound if you want to try to pull out that menthol, FA Anise if you just want the spice/zing as an accent?
>we are going to work on that as our next project.
Nice. I'm looking forward to it.
Newton's Pipe sounds interesting. I've seen INW Classic for Pipe Black in a lot of recipes, but my regular vendor doesn't have it. I might have to order some from somewhere else. I have FLV Native Tobacco, but I don't think I've opened my bottle yet.
I wouldn't have thought to try TFA Horehound with tobacco. I've only used it with menthol and eucalyptus in winter. I like the sound of a menthol cigarette with horehound. I'll add that to my list of things to experiment with.
Thanks for the ideas :)
This is where it gets tricky, cause flavor can be very subjective.
It depends what kind of anise you want to use and how it tastes like. Some are sweet, others are more to the spicy side, so you should pair your tobaccos with that pretty much.
For your more dark and smokey tobaccos, something like TFA Horehound and FA Anise aren't bad choices along with the INW Lukrecja due to the smokey flavor it has.
For your sweeter tobaccos, I'd probably pick something more light in flavor (again FA anise would go well here) or maybe even a straight up candy licorice like FA Black Touch.
I'm not a huge expert on tobaccos as of yet compared to many others here, so I apologize for my lack of knowledge on the matter.
I just started using tobacco flavours, so any help is welcome :)
I've been vaping 2% FLV Sweet Cigarette, 1.5% Black Tobacco SC, 1% INW DNB and 1% FA Anise. u/ChemicalBurnVictim suggested Black Tobacco SC to go with FA Anise. I wanted FLV Sweet Cigarette to connect with the sweetness in FA Anise, which I think it does pretty well.
It's just kind of simple compared to something like Southerner, which I've also been vaping. I feel like maybe I'm missing one more tobacco flavour or something. I'm pretty new to making my own recipes, and I never know when they're done.
I think an addition of INW Liquorice might be good for your FLV Sweet Cigarette and FA Anise combo actually and add in a little FLV Sweet & Smokey tobacco as well - this is just from the top of my head, so I can't back up my claims at all, but my logic says it could be good.
Thanks so much for writing these up, I really appreciate your efforts! I am obsessed with liquorice flavours but it's hard to find information about them. I'm going to try your CAP Licorice / Black Touch base to make a good liquorice and blackcurrant mix.
Thanks!
Be most welcome to adjust the base to your likings. I used the exact same base in a licorice/blackcurrant/dark berry mix I did recently, which turned out quite nicely.
Odd that you don't suggest pairing horehound with tobacco, as that's the primary use of it that I was familiar with.
And yes, black licorice is one of the less enjoyed flavors...
I think us from Northern Europe have a bit of a different view on these type of flavors, I also see licorice being used for tobaccos a lot, not something I would have used it for. Anything can work with tobacco though, so I'm not ruling it out, but it's definitley not the first thing that would come to mind.
Here Horehound is mainly used for cough drops and teas.
Licorice and anise is mainly used for candies or even ice cream, mixed with fruits such as raspberry, citrus or mint. Vanilla and caramel are also good pairings.
Probably a clove cigarette would be it's best use for a tobacco. I should play around with it some. And there are a few tobacco flavors with unfortunately strong anise notes. It can be tough to overpower that shit and salvage something vapable from it. Although I could see just a touch of anise being useful, to contrast a really appealing flavor.