Sometimes I make things up. Most of the time, I follow recipes. It's just never the same as a purchased bottle of juice. Maybe it's the premixed base I'm using, I'm not sure. I used a variety of different flavorings - TFA, FA, CAP. Does anyone else have this issue?
I guess to clarify, I cant get my fruits to mellow out nicely. They are too tart. And I use a lot of citrus so I get it that they will be a bit tart. I dont want to vape anything that tastes like skittles, if that makes sense. I dont use sweeteners and I dont do desserts. So how can I mellow out the citrus fruits without that sour or candy-like flavor? I need to get better with blenders
I think as DIYers sometimes we compare our favorite juices to our DIY. We never think about the countless bottles of store bought shit tier flavors we've vaped. Yeah my DIY juice will never be as good as ADK Placid or Cascade, but some of them are better than most of the mid tier garbage at the vape shop. Or house juice! Dont get me started on house juice!
House juices. Fuck. Say no more. I ordered a “clove cigarette” from “tasty vapor” in Oakland (i think) and it was like pure clove. I don’t know if they messed up or if they’re just completely untalented but it literally tasted like poisonous levels of clove. I used to make strong clove candy as a kid so it’s not a flavor I hate, though many do. It was thick like tar and orange in color— unlike any ejuice I’ve ever see. They weren’t very friendly and wouldn’t refund or exchange it. Not only was it like chemical he’ll in my mouth but the bottle was cracked and I lost half of it in the mail anyway. Worst loss of $27 ever. I actually saved it because I want to bring it to them in person and see if they confirm it’s a mistake batch or not.
ADK is house juice. I have a bottle of Placid and can't for the life of me understand why anyone likes it, it tastes and smells like straight up chemicals to me even after a month steeping
Its not for everyone. I mean every cheesecake vape i've ever tried gives me the worst headache. Even thinking about the taste of it makes my stomach turn. Thats the case for any bakery vape. But people love that shit. Placid and Cascade are the only 2 juices i'll pay money for. I havent bought it in a couple years but i'd still vape the shit out of it today.
it's all going to come down to preference, and what you're expecting vs what you're putting into a recipe.
I felt like most of the commercial juice I had tried was either massively over saturated with sweetener, inaccurate to the label, or boring. There are some exceptions obviously, but not near so many as there are examples of juice made with marketing in mind ahead of flavor. I wanted stuff that was a lot less sweet, and a lot more interesting, on that end everything that I've mixed to the point where a recipe was recorded, exceeds my expectations for commercial juice greatly.
Yes, besides getting away from spending a ton of money, I cant do sweeteners at all. I dont add any to my recipes. I dont do baked goods or cereals either. I'm a fruits person. But I find that a lot of my stuff comes out too tart or sour or burn my throat. Especially with citrus fruits. I like a mellow fruit flavor...not tasting like candy or skittles or sour. I've been experimenting by adding Smooth or Milk/dairy to most of them and it has mellowed them out a lot. I have noticed that a lot of recipes add cookie, ice cream, cotton candy to fruits to maybe mellow out the tartness of fruits but I dont want to purchase those flavors and I dont want to turn my flavor into a dessert. I've been altering some recipes to not use those dessert flavors. The only "dessert" type flavor I've been able to tolerate on a regular basis is the banana cream mixed with strawberry and no sweetener added. I have about 50 different flavors and I'm learning that a lot of the fruits are just too candy-like. Most are sour or very strong
do you have an example or two of recipes you are mixing currently, or have mixed in the past?
You might do well to look at things like TFA Honeydew for a "soft" more or less authentic fruit.
This is the one I wrote down for 100ml
Mango 5.0ml Italian lemon 2.0ml Lime 2.0ml Mandarin 3.0ml Dairy/milk 2.0ml Sweet cream 1.0ml
The lime was too much and made it taste like a green skittle. I wanted more mango taste and at the time, my mango was only 4.0ml. I tried to add a bit more and add more base to dilute the lime. Someone told me I added too much flavoring and I probably did. But I ran out of nic base and all I could do was add more pg/VG to dilute.
Cotton Candy is used because EM (the sole ingredient in TFA Cotton Candy) tends to smooth the rough edges off of flavors.
Also, remember that commercial juice usually sits in a bottle for at least a month before you bought it. Steeping time tends to make citrus fruits especially fade. That could be the effect you're looking for. Also, commercial juice is usually heavy in sweetener (aka sucralose).
You letting the liquid steep? For me its the opposite. I've been mixing myself for over a year now and bought my first bottle yesterday since then because I did not have time to mix something before work. It was expensive and kind of gross honestly, I think too much sweetener?
Well I only use fruits but I'll mix and allow them to sit about a week because I make larger bottles. I dont add any sweetener because I dont like it
What additional addatives do you use other than the base flavour profiles? Have you tried cactus and dragonfruit as an emsifier combo? Will bring some. Juiceyness to your mix and help mellow it out a little bit.
Also I know you said you don't like sweeteners, but even at 0.1% they can have an effect on the juice that really helps out the flavour if it's too sharp
I definitely went through this stage. Early in my mixing experience I found that a lot of juices I mixed, I gave a pass as vapable just because it was something new, which made it ok but soon after I decided they sucked - lack of complexity, too sweet, too sour etc.
I started with no mentor, researched online etc, mainly on forums, which being the quiet type, I never actually participated in - just read others notes/recipes. I was mixing everything too strong for a while, and also adding too much (both in quantity of each flavour and the number of items per recipe) because I'd read that a good juice should be around the 10-15% concentrate (which lead to some horrible mixes).
It was frustrating because when I lost confidence in my mixing ability I'd turn to other people's recipes online, and these sucked as much as mine or were worse. I guess I was ignorant of the subjective nature of mixing and that just because someone published a recipe, didn't make it any good.
It took quite a while for the penny to drop. To learn that less can be more. That if you want to highlight a flavour, adding less of everything else can be better than adding more of that flavour. Muting it down with cream or sweetness doesn't fix something that's not good, even if there's some part of it that appeals to you.
Finding the right compliment to really bring out certain tastes is a skill that takes a while to develop. It began for me realising that I could smell certain notes in my concentrates and suddenly image what these could work with, and backing right off with the heavy handedness, realising that just a little bit can add complexity.
I'm definitely still not expert, but I can develop the flavour I want more easily now and build on it and improve it. I often mix a lot of little testers around the same idea, then sit down with an rda and go through them, once I figure out what is closest to the original idea, mix another batch of several variations and develop my recipes this way - extensive trial and error.
I'd also highly recommend finding someone to follow, even if you don't talk to them (for example one of the mods/great mixers on this sub). If you like the style of their recipes, get on atf and stalk them, read all their recipes and write them down. What do you like about it? What's wrong with the ones you don't like? What could you substitute to make it your taste. This is how I improved myself.
This is some good advice. I really appreciate it!
I guess it's been hard for me because I have the impulse to keep mixing all my favorites together that I think go together. I'm also learning that a lot of the flavors I have should never be main flavors. I absolutely love lime but it's horrible as a main flavor. I need to use my rda more to test. I dont really use it to test because I need to leave the mix steep anyway and I never know how things will actually taste a week or 2 later.
I need to figure out which flavors compliment others and figure out how much to use of my own flavors without overdoing it.
I thought about maybe mixing just all of the single flavors alone first in a base and learning the tastes of each one. Then maybe mix the full liquids later? Not sure if this is a good idea or not
Single flavour testing is absolutely a good idea. Test them multiple times and at multiple percentages, like the next day, 3/4 days, a week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks. The way a flavour steeps out is essential knowledge, because this is what it will be in your mix.
Some potent flavours can be really bad (or smell terrible - chemically, pissy etc, or weird, like floral or dry) initially then fantastic after steeping. It helps you to get your head around what it will be like in a mix, along with how much to use.
If something mellowed out and sweetened up after a couple of weeks then it might mute or blend other flavours and come to the surface after you steep your mix, that kinda thing.
This is excellent advice, and I often hear this repeated: SFTs are probably about the single most useful thing you can do to get to know your flavors. Unfortunately it can be fairly tedious, and it's imperative to keep your testers organized and labelled and your notes detailed and accurate.
I put this off for a long while then when I finally did start, my notes weren't nearly as detailed as they should have been and I figured that sharpie would suffice for a label on testers. It did not. Turns out no matter how permanent the marker, it will not stick to plastic, so I ended up with a dozen or so bottles that had no labels whatsoever and all my progress was lost.
Now I'm starting over with a dedicated flavor notebook, a dedicated tester steeping shelf, and a labelmaker. Should be fun on a bun.
Excellent advice... 👍... That described what I went thru too... very well written! My problem now is my taste buds are just destroyed from yrs of smoking... so I tend to mix heavy... but there are times when I mix other peoples recipes that are light on flavors , and they taste pretty good... so my buds might improve a little bit.... but.. I'm 10 yrs vaping... so can't see them changing much..😒
I hear people use TPA vanilla swirl to mellow out and blend fruits. Start at 1%. I know you don't like desserts but if your fruits are that bold this could help without imparting any flavor. And like others have said theres cactus and dragonfruit at low percents. Could also try low amounts of marshmallow. I like to use pear at low percents, its sweet but not sugar sweet if that makes sense.
Fa MTS vape wizard in my experience does what you are asking for. I had originally bought it trying to bring down the harshness of certain flavors. I didn't realize it also removes a lot of the tartness from the flavoring. Kind of disappointing for me but sounds like it's exactly what you're looking for. It's very potent so for 10-30 ml I would start off with a drop or two.
Making things up has been disastrous for me. Not sure if I just suck at it (likely) or if practice makes perfect.
Following recipes to the T is how to make good DIY juice. If a recipe calls for ABC brand of a flavor, use that brand and that specific flavor. Different flavor vendors can have very different flavors with the same name. And two different flavors can have a similar name (eg. ripe strawberry vs. sweet strawberry). This is probably your main problem.
Past that, commercial juice uses a shitload of sweetener. Personally I can't stand it, but if you've become accustomed to it, you may want to add sweetener, or give yourself time to adjust to unsweetened juice.
Lastly, put your finished bottles in hot water in the sink for 20 minutes, then shake the shit out of them. A week later, repeat the process. A week after that, vape them. You can shake & vape but it's not as good.
As for putting lots of citrus and then complaining about tartness, idk what to tell you lol.
Well I know I shouldnt be surprised at the tartness, especially with all the lime that I added. The other 3 flavors dont taste sour or tart...they are more on the sweeter side. The FA lime tastes like something I'd use to remove a grease stain off of concrete. If I didnt add it in there, the mix wouldve probably been fine.
So I guess i shouldve just asked how to not have the lime taste like a green skittle? Does it need more time to steep? Lime is one of my favorite flavors so maybe I should make a standalone lime flavor that has steeped for awhile and adjusted with blenders then add that into my mixes instead of adding straight flavor
Making a juice where FA Lime Tahity (Distilled) is the primary flavor would be... a challenge. Making a juice where FA Lime Tahity (Cold Pressed) is the primary flavor would be... less challenging (and yes, the lime is the strongest flavor in that, since it's the most potent flavor)
No, mine are way better than "professional juice".
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What you actually mean is that what you mix doesn't have a ton of sweetener unlike the ones that you buy.
I dont like sweetener. It was almost making me gag. I dont even use it. It's the tartness of the flavors that I'm mixing that I dont like. I dont know how to keep the flavor strong, but mellow it out. Does that make sense? Like i dont want to taste skittles or candy or sour fruit. I want a mellow fruit flavor without turning it into a dessert.
Manufacturers have a way of using dessert flavors with fruits to mellow out the tartness but I dont want the dessert flavor in there. I'm not sure if they are adding blenders in there as well.
Can you post a few recipes so we can look at them to see what you may be having a problem with? Sometimes just by looking at a recipe people can tell you issues especially those of us that have been mixing a long time
This is the one I wrote down for 100ml
Mango 5.0ml Italian lemon 2.0ml Lime 2.0ml Mandarin 3.0ml Dairy/milk 2.0ml Sweet cream 1.0ml
The lime was too much and made it taste like a green skittle. I wanted more mango and at the time, my mango was only 4.0ml. I tried to add a bit more and add more base to water down the lime. Someone told me I added too much flavoring and I probably did. But I ran out of nic base and all I could do was add more pg/VG to dilute
Also there certainly is things to add like (tpa) Smooth that help round flavors out
https://www.bullcityflavors.com/smooth-tfa/
If your fruits are too tart, try FA Pear or FA Apricot as the main note of a test mix or two. Not harsh, and not tart.
There is no reason for your mixes to be as bad as the average commercial ones ...
I have apricot but I dont have pear yet. It's on my list.
Fa white grape will mellow out sourness/acidity with a mild and light grape flavour and sweetness that mixes with other fruits too in my experience. It is a potent flavour though, start low (0.5-1%) - it can be perfumey if too much is added and might seem this way before it's steeped. It needs around 2 weeks to steep.
There are a few flavors that I find really help with blending, for different reasons.
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CAP Horchata and/or TFA Horchata Smooth (GREAT base for just about anything IMO)
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WF Champagne Soda (at 4-8%, for sweetening and smoothing, be careful with it as you would AP)
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INA Little Space Drop (at lower %, simply amazing for tobacco blends and some non-tobacco blends too)
And of course:
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FA AP (at 4-8% max for smoothing)
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INA RY-4 (don’t use this much anymore but it’s balanced)
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INA Shisha Vanilla or WF Vanilla Xtra Cream
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INA Dirty Neutral Baza
I’ve been making horchata based juices for MONTHS now, up to 1/2 of the blend. It all started with a pistachio juice... I’ve found that using it as a base starting around 1/3 really helps smooth over the main character flavors (like strawberry etc) and does not overpower or outshine.
As for main flavors... please do yourself a favor and try Inawera. IMHO they are the gold standard. I wish they made a horchata!
I've never heard of INA. I'll look them up! Thanks!
You’re welcome, and good luck. I felt the same way you did at one point.
I should have been more clear in my post, but my percentages are of the flavor volume, not the whole batch.
With proffesional juice you mean store bought??
If so you might wanna reconsider sweetener, as almost all of them have some in it. Sweetner does more than just sweeten up your juice.
I had some juices that were just waaaaaay to sweet, and kill my coils in 1-2 tanks. I don't like sweetner that much, but i do use it. Not in a way that it sweetens my juice, but more as to "mellow"out the juice it self.
But comparing store bought to diy juice is like comparing apples to oranges
Try
4% FA Kiwi 4% FA Fuji 6% TFA Strawberry
It's become my ADV. I do agree DIY can't compare to some "premium" liquid but that liquid is going to cost you a nice chunk of change. I would rather vape good DIY that costs $0.15/ml over "premium" liquid that costs $0.50/ml.