Apologies in advance for the long-winded novel I'm about to write, but if anybody actually has the patience to read on and possibly help me, I'd be forever grateful.
So let me preface by saying that I'm still very new to DIY and new to this subreddit as well. I quit the stinkies totally almost two months ago but have been vaping for a few years now. After realizing how much money I was starting to spend on premium e-liquid, coupled with the desire to vape juices that were exactly the taste and profile I wanted, I decided to take the plunge and invest in some mixing supplies, flavorings, and nic.
Now I'm mostly partial to fruity/candy type vapes, which is why my flavor stash is 99% fruit or candy. After a dozen or so attempts at frankenstein-ing my own simple "recipes" together (mainly in search of that perfect watermelon candy/jolly rancher) juice) I tried a few watermelon recipes from various different places on the internet. Not coming up with anything that tasted good enough to ADV led me to my current conundrum.
So way back when I first started vaping I was helped tremendously by this guy at my local B&M who sold me an evic vtc mini and my very first premium e-liquid: Canary Coulis by Charlie Noble. I remember how amazingly sweet and melony this stuff tasted, not quite watermelon candy, but damned if it wasn't amazingly delicious. So imagine my surprise when I found out that Charlie Noble released the recipe for this...I was so filled with glee, I immediately ordered the missing flavors so I could once again enjoy one of my favorite juices.
Well, so far I've tried making it twice and even after steeping there is a severe lack of flavor. It almost tastes like nothing, mixed with a bit of water and the slightest faintest note of honeydew or some other melon. Now I will say that my vendor did not have the original TFA Honeydew, so I instead had to purchase Honeydew II, but from what I've read online it's a weaker (though definitely slightly different tasting) version of the original. I honestly don't know what to do. I'd really like to enjoy vaping this juice again, especially if I made it myself and also because it's discontinued. I've mixed it exactly at the percentages they have in their original blog post more than once and still hardly any flavor and from what I remember it was bursting with flavor.
Is this my fault? Is it the Honeydew II ruining the entire thing? And if for some reason my taste has changed and I simply can't enjoy this anymore, can anyone recommend a sweet watermelon/melon candy type recipe that I could try instead? I've wasted about 250ml's of VG and have pretty much nothing that I'd enjoy vaping on a daily basis.
Thanks in advance for anyone that read this far and still offers advice, hehe.
Edit: Thank you all for the suggestions and encouraging words. I’m definitely going to stick with it and try some simpler recipes instead of getting hung up on this. I may try it again down the road, but for now I’ll just keep trying to make something I like. This has definitely renewed my interest in DIY and I’m not quite ready to give up just yet!
Without sounding like an asshole, I don't think quitting DIY would be a logical step. Nothing wrong with being picky, but wasting $5 of VG is a lot better than however much 250ml of premium juice is nowadays. I recently got back into DIY after taking a break out of laziness and lack of passion, and funnily enough candies are what made me want to start again! Watch this episode of Noted and get back to work friend, you'll only get better! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDmmVTNkDVA
Thanks for the encouraging words. I guess I just had one of those moments where I thought that if I couldn't even make other's recipes taste good, even the ones I've had before, then maybe I just didn't have it in me haha. I guess it's time to empty out all these failures and keep trying other things!
Dont quit brother juat keep trying different stuff youll get it. I got my first diy from vapewild and the whole experience was awful. The nicotine was terrible quality (peppery). I got some apple flavoring and it was handsdown the worst flavoring ive ever tried along some of there pineapple. In short dont get diy from vapewild lol. Do your research try different things youll figire things out. Diy is definitely trial and error everybody here can tell you that
Also you shouldnt put water in your eliquid thatll definitely take the flavor out plus water in your lungs is not a good situation. Wayne from diyordie has a good honeydew recipe just try what he uses in it i cant think of what it is. Honeydewwey is the juice though.
Try getting the regular Honeydew and see if it works out.
IMO drop the Sour and Cotton Candy, see if you can get Capellas Super Sweet and use it at around 0.25% and MAYBE some TPA Dragonfruit (~0.5%).
Yeah I was looking around for the original Honeydew so I might have to try it. Just heard that it's a super powerful concentrate, and if it is the Honeydew II overpowering everything else then that might be even worse but I suppose it's worth a try ultimately. I do have both Super Sweet and Dragonfruit though so I'll make a couple small batches with your suggestions and see if it comes out more to my liking.
I have never found a vaoe juice I LOVE. Nor have I ever been able to make one that I LOVE.
Its either good, eh, or bad
Honeydew is an odd flavor: I have never encountered a flavor that is so different from company to company. What you may have to do is buy small samples of each maker and taste test them to see what suits you best.
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Odd note: I did a search on diy-ejuice dot com for honeydew flavors and in the results they also included CAP Candied Watermelon Flavor (apparently it has honeydew in it).
Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if I'm just getting too hung up on the honeydew part. I've heard it's a strong flavor and the fact that I mixed this at exactly the ratios the creator did makes me thing that there's possibly something else wrong or it just needs a lot longer steep time. I'd just think I'd be able to taste something other than faint honeydew especially since it's all fruit flavors.
The issue your experiencing seems to be the result of honeydew 1 vs honeydew 2 not being the same. Get yourself the one listed on the recipe and your results should be better.
I personally love honeydew Vapes. If you want a good one get jungle flavors honeydew, it's miles better than tfa honeydew. I still think tfa honeydew is good, but jungle flavors is one of the best flavors out there to me.
Check out recipe sites for hash slinging slashurs recipes. Here's a link to my favorite recipe to modify. https://alltheflavors.com/users/hashslingingslashur
Don't quit diy, you'll get it figured out and it is so much more worth it. Try single flavors and not mashing them together before you start blending them, but that recipe sounds like exactly something you'd like.
Edit: I just clicked my link and it goes to just his list. The recipe I was talking about is his melon mix. It's candy-ish with honeydew and melon. It's an all time favorite for me, I'll always have it one hand, but I have modified it to be heavier on honeydew.
I’ve been vaping a long long time and years ago I tried DIY. Gave it up and tried a ton of different mods and tanks, making my own coils, etc. went from recoiling Vivi Novas to trying Clapton’s, and all sort of stuff in between. I’ve finally found what I feel is a fantastic combo with a kanthal double mesh coil set up at around 60 watts and a juice vendor that makes a few flavors I find to be fantastic. Dense, good flavor. Recently got back into DIY in hopes of copying some recipes and maybe creating a few. Went with a strawberry cheesecake and a couple others. Same deal with me. Weak flavor and the nic seems peppery. Even after week plus of steeping. Ordered the DIY kit from NicRiver so figure it should be good. All flavor from TFA, Capella, etc.
Bottom line, I think I need sweetener in my juices to get them where I like them. Not sure if the commercial stuff I buy has it, but it absolutely blows away whatever it is that I made. Not even close. I was so disappointed. I figured, here we go. Got my fresh flavor and a highly ranked recipe. I thought I would be floored by how good it tasted. I wasn’t. It was bland. My only other potential issue is I have difficulty picking up strawberry flavors in vape juice. I believe it’s been that way in the past. So I’ll try with other flavors. Good luck dude. Hope you figure it out. Hope I do too.
It's not a popular opinion around here but I really think you could have benefited from a little (.25-1%) CAP Super Sweet. It is a massive difference in taste when all you've vaped is commercially sweetened juices which typically seem to have ~2% sweetener or more. Once you get used to that sweetness it's hard to go to unsweetened because everything tastes bland comparatively. I have the same problem and I think things like drinking soda/eating sweets also contribute to this. I also can't taste strawberry juices (DIY or commercial) which is super shitty considering strawberry is generally my favorite flavor for things like candy, ice cream, etc. Haven't found a way past strawberry blindness but I haven't tried a couple of the top strawberry flavors yet either.
If you decide to mix something up again, try adding .5% CAP Super Sweet to a recipe you've tried before (make sure to leave out the same amount of PG), see how you like it and if it's an improvement then you know what the problem is.
By the way, the way I found this out is before I tried DIY I just tried some unsweetened vendors like Blue Dot, Hometown Hero, Broke Dick and The Sauce LA. They all had the same problem for me. Tasted "watered-down" so I suspected I needed sweetener but wasn't 100% sure. This was confirmed when I started DIY, made recipes as they were without sweetener and tested them. Watered-down. So I added .5% to one of the bottles I already made and BAM! Flavor town!
Edit: Oh! I also had the same problem with NicRivers own brand nic. I started buying the Chemnovatic from them instead and haven't had any problems. I haven't even kept this batch in the freezer like the last one and no noticeable oxidation has occurred in...5 months now. This is in Florida btw where it's sunny and hot as balls always. If you don't want to even take a chance, go with CarolinaXtract's nic. It's more expensive but apparently the quality can't be beat. I haven't tried it yet, but plan to when I need more nic.
Awesome comment! Thank you. I’ve also use BDV and like some of their stuff, but my DIY is nowhere close. Unfortunately, when I ordered my starter pack, for some reason I was thinking the flavors with an asterisk were the most popular. Still not sure what they meant. But when I ran my haul through the “what can I make” only around 6-10 juices popped up with ratings and they were basically all strawberry. Ugh.
I need to find some popular flavors that I like. I enjoy tangy and sharp fruit flavors or dense sweet/fruit with tobacco flavors. Not a big cream or vanilla guy. Custard leaves a nasty aftertaste on my tongue. Anyway, find those flavors. Order some new flavoring and add the sweetener. I didn’t add that to my initial order and I sat there contemplating it back and forth a few times.
I really hope my nic isn’t bad. That would suck. Also, how do you mix? I’m finding doing 30ml is making it really hard to get the exact amounts down. Stuff comes in at 100ths of a ml. Something like 2.13 mls of a flavor. I’m thinking of switching to weight based. I have a scale that can get that specific.
You're very welcome! I will say, out of all the commercial juice I've tried, BDV is among the best. They are really accurate and inoffensive juices, I find. And I think you're right that the asterisks are NicRiv's popular flavors (or frequently ordered, or something) but most of those flavors need to be supported by others to really shine. Oh and most of the flavors on my WCIM list are strawberry too so don't feel bad about that. There's just a ton of them and it really sucks as a non-taster.
> I need to find some popular flavors that I like. I enjoy tangy and sharp fruit flavors or dense sweet/fruit with tobacco flavors. Not a big cream or vanilla guy. Custard leaves a nasty aftertaste on my tongue. Anyway, find those flavors. Order some new flavoring and add the sweetener.
Exactly! Unfortunately, we have pretty dissimilar tastes as I love cream, vanilla, custard, bakery stuff. I don't do tangy or sharp often and I've never tried any tobaccos so I can't be too much help but there are a couple I know of you might like:
These are just some of the highly rated ones on my list because I can't actually think of anything off the top of my head.
I mix by weight and highly recommend everyone mix that way. It's just so much more simple, accurate, mess-free, and quick that it's hard to make an argument for mixing by volume. I worked at a gelato factory for about a year (before I even started vaping), and they have to add liquid flavoring (very similar to what we use but not safe to vape) after pasteurizing the rest of the ingredients. They told me when they first started up, they were mixing by volume until they had a guy from another "frozen treat" company come in as a consultant and showed them how to convert their recipes to mix by weight and they never looked back. You just turn the scale on, put an empty bottle on it, tare, first ingredient, tare, second, tare, third, tare, etc. till you've added everything then cap it and you're done! As long as you're scale can do 0.01g and up to like 500g iirc. This is the most recommended one so if yours does that then you're golden.
Best advice I can give is to try searching elr and atf for watermelon flavors and sorting by highest rated. Watermelon crack was a highly cloned juice and might be up your alley sans the menthol. You can also enter your flavor stash and have either site find recipes you can make.
I got lucky and out of the 5 clone recipes of my favorite juice I found one close enough to be satisfying. However I have made probably 20 strawberry milk like flavors and not one has been what I want and have another 7 steeping. I'm still far from an expert and have a lot to learn.
As others have said, come to the discord. There's always someone there to help. As for my own advice: Be careful how much VG you put in your mixes. I regularly go over the suggested amount that my calculator recommends, and that totally throws off the percentages and flavor profiles. I mix in 30 ml bottles and even going over by like 2 grams of vg drastically changes the flavor of the final mix. It's a process that takes time. Good luck.
I did join the discord and even if I don't get this recipe down, all the people there have definitely made me want to stick with it, even in the short time I've been there. Also, thanks for the tip..I wasn't aware of that. I'll definitely be purchasing a scale this week instead of using syringes to measure by volume. It's such a pain anyways.
Yeah the idea of having to use syringes wasn't one that I took nicely too. I do have some bulk, ink syringes for fountain pens which I do use to measure nicotine. I do still go by weight for those however. It's really nice to just be able to add in everything as you go through a recipe. Also, no one ever really harps on about how accurate you have to be with flavorings and bases so I thought you could learn from my experience. I'm definitely a little fat thumbed when it comes to the VG and it really does make a difference.
Another tip would be to start with something not very complex. For example, the first thing I ever mixed was only 3 flavors plus nic and bases. It came out great, and it was easy to make. Small steps.
Diy can be super frustrating, however what gave me hope was getting my stash and sniffing all of them and just making something safe-ish. I made a dragonfruit strawberry lemonade sort of thing, and it was a shake&vape and pretty palatable from the get-go. With the recipes I got here, steep time is massive(it’s unvapeable right when you mix it but becomes nice over a month). A mid-way would be to buy premixed flavours and dilute them yourself-pretty failproof and much cheaper than premixed liquid. Also what I do is use the pure concentrates I have to vamp up flavours I already have-I have Coil Hooch Nice Lemon Slice, which was meh for me. Added some CPA Lemon Sicily and now it’s gooood! I’m also a weirdo with flavour, I need ALOT. Most of the premade flavour concentrates you should use at 5-10%, I do 12-20%. People gawk at me but then they taste it and want more 😂
As good as TFA Honeydew is (it's in regular rotation with some of my recipes), JF Honeydew is the true king.
So I've heard. I'm gonna try mixing up a batch or two without any honeydew and one subbed with FLV Wild Melon and see if that does it for me. Will definitely be adding JF Honeydew to my list though since it seems widely praised and I'm such a sucker for melon vapes.
All I can say is that I never really liked any honeydew flavor. I could never really enjoy it no matter how much I had in there. A very strange flavor to work with.
I currently vape on this http://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/84459/HIC%27s%20White%20Tic-TacIt's not melon in any way, but it is candy-like. It's simple, yet refreshingly good. I never get sick of it. And I don't even like licorice which is basically the flavor that Anise gives.
Edit: if i'm feeling really funky I even add TFA Koolada.
Once you've seen tons of recipes, you start to notice a pattern of what flavors work well at certain ratios. At this point in my DIY career I wing it, and sometimes I'll create a dud, but most times it's at least tolerable if not great. (If I'm just throwing some flavors together that I have left. Otherwise I usually just copy other peoples recipes that taste fantastic). It's all about learning your preference on the amount of flavoring honestly. Not all recipes will be strong enough for your tastes, or can be too strong. That's the beauty of DIY. You decide how strong you want it to be. Throw 20% of flavoring in there if you want, no ones stopping you. Maybe you'll like it. I digress lol.
I use Honeydew II. It's pretty strong. We just had a big honeydew thread. Try it at 5% if it's coming up weak for you. Also, your taste does change, even from morning to night. I have 2 retail juices I loved and can't stand now. They just sit there collecting dust while I vape my diy juices.
One, are you certain that you mixed correctly? Two, have you changed the vgpg ratio? Three, you said last time you tried it was two years ago? You quit smoking, taste perception might be quite different. Four, people's taste change with time, you might just not like it anymore.
My first juice was a pineapple, mango, cooler thing and I loved it and it got me off cigs, but 14 months later I bought it again and now I can't stand it. I vape perhaps 4 ml and threw out the rest. I prefer simple tobacco mixes now.
Of course as others say, trying the exact recipe first is probably not a bad start, but also, mix smaller batches until you know you will like it.
Keep it up, you will find something vapable. Then it startbeing fun again. For me it got fun once I mixed up all my concentrates in small single flavor bottles and got an RDA to sample them.
This is the best DIY Watermelon I have found.
https://diyordievaping.com/2017/07/05/water-malone-diy-e-liquid-recipe/
https://alltheflavors.com/recipes/53215
He also sells this as a one shot. Chefs Flavours had it stocked last time I bought some at £7.50 for 30ml and I think the recommended % was 10% so still great value.
Have you tried building it up from the start?
Try just some PG to see what that is like. Vape pure VG. Try your nicotine in PG and in VG. Make your base. Vape that.
Test all your flavours as single flavour mixes. Throw some of them together, and try it like that. Add some more of this or that flavour.
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A lot of recipes do not work out for me either. But when you know what your single flavours taste like. You can start playing around with it, you can recognize what you do and do not like within it. Then you'll know yes it is this honeydew II which destroys this mix for me. Or hey, I really like or dislike this type of Watermelon, let's add more or less, let's see what it is like when I do that.
Few things I'd note:
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Are you using the same atomizer / vape as you did back when you vaped your reference?
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Honeydew 2 you're using is not the same as in the recipe. At that point you can throw the percentages from the recipe out the window. Try upping it if too faint. You may also have to adjust the rest of the recipe as the new aroma may interact with it differently. Try adding a few drops to your mixed bottles. Nothing much to lose there, yeah? Might aswell experiment with them.
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When you start out with vaping, everything tastes more intense. It's part excitement for this new experience, and your olfactory not being used to it, with a dash of nostalgia mixed in now. You may never get that old sensation back. Don't get too hung up on it. If the recipe doesn't work out, make something else that tastes great. And keep the recipes simple!
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Mix a 10ml batch of every flavor you're using. Test them. In doing so you'll probably discover your problems with your desires mix.
Watermelon candy? Watermelon Crack clone by /u/Vurve
It's been my ADV for almost 3 years now. Every now and then I will find some new recipes to mix, use them for a couple of weeks (or a day), but always come back to this. I make 16oz of it at a time.
When I'm having trouble with a recipe, I mix each flavor in the original percentage in their own battle, like 10-15 mls. I get an empty bottle and mark hash marks with a ruler or something. Then I mix the juices in the empty bottle until i get the taste i want. It's not 100% accurate, but it'll give you an idea which flavor needs more or less %. Plus you can taste each flavor individually and judge them that way as well. I've come up with several good recipes in one session trying to get a single recipe before. You can use a bottle of pure VG to put on your cotton to kind of wipe out the flavor between tests.
Another thing to try is adjusting the VG/PG ratios. VG mutes flavor, so you could try a higher PG ration. A lot of older recipes were 50/50, which is likely to taste a little different than a 85/15 max VG.
Hope that helps, I've only adapted recipes, I have yet to mix someone else's exact recipe.
DIY definitely takes some getting used to. Even after 3 years+ I can say I'm an average mixer at best. Here are the things that had the most impact on improving my recipes in order:
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Mixing by weight. I would never ever go back to mixing by volume. Unless you are making huge 300mL + batches it is just too inaccurate. Mixing by weight means you can make 10mL batches and try things. For your watermelon conundrun you could easilty make 4 samples of even 6-8mL with say 2%, 2.5%, 3% and 3.5% of a flavor and see how it affects the recipe.
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Stirring. My stirring technique actually showed me how hard it is to mix VG and PG. After making my mixes, I take a wooden BBQ skewer and cut it in 3 pieces and then clamp it in the chuck of my hand drill. I put the tip in my bottles and stir at maximum speed and acually push the stirrer up and down in the bottle as I mix. You can actually see the PG creating spirals and getting "pushed" down into the mix. Because of a large difference in viscocity (and density) it seems the PG just wants to sit on the top and the VG stay in the bottom. It takes me a good 60-90 seconds at full speed on my drill to get the juices to mix properly. I used to shake the hell out of my mixes and tried breathing them and all that stuff and I still would get some parts that tasted like nothing and then parts overloaded with flavor that tasted chemical because of a too high concentration. I will never vape another hand shaked mix ever again. Now my mixes are perfectly blended and taste as good as commercial juices right after the mix.
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My last advice is about experimentation. I find TFA and Cappela flavors are hard to deal with. Changing percentages actually changes the flavor profile so I have a hard time deviating from recipes. When I started out in DIY I used Flavour Art flavourings. If you use a flavour art orange flavor... it tastes like orange. Put a bit more and it tastes more like orange, not different. I find flavor art are easier to experiment with and their flavor profile changes less with concentration compared to other companies.
Thanks for the sound advice. Ordered a scale last night and will only be mixing by weight from now on, especially since I hate using syringes haha.
I can tell you right now that is 100% the reason why you find your mixes have low taste if you were mixing smaller quantities. Especially if you are going drop by drop for the flavorings. Use a good online calculator and mix by weight and you will see its night and day. Also, try and use my mixing technique. You'll be amazed how hard it is to get VG and PG to mix together. It's even worse than trying to to mix olive oil with water.
Also, PG tends to bring out the flavour and sweetness. When mixing fruits, I sometimes go 40/60 PG/VG. More PG does give a bit more throat hit and is hydroscopic so it can lead to headaches if you don't hydrate while chain vaping. Some people go as low as 50/50 for max flavour since PG is a better flavour carrier (which is why flavourings are usually in a PG base).
Don't throw the syringes out yet. I got them when I started out, but never really used them. I only use them to take out the VG or nicotine when I've added too much to the base by accident. Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to take out a specific flavoring (or PG) from a mix though.
Hey man I was the same way and I tried so many watermelon recipes and hated them all even the big name one's like Water Malone and Watermelon Crack they were fake watermelon flavors to me...I love DiyorDie Wayne's recipes except hated water malone...I have a recipe that is a pretty great sweet flavor but it's a menthol so you can take out the Koolada,Polar blast and ws23....figured I'd post it in case ya wanted to try it out...good luck dude don't give up there is great recipes in this community..What I do is supplement with ejuices every once in a while but mainly diy
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https://alltheflavors.com/recipes/107249#summer_lovin_by_xxbulldogirishxx