Really need some advice!
I am new to vaping (about 2 weeks) but before I jumped in I spent countless hours reading and watching youtube videos so that I could actually have a good chance at quitting cigarettes. I decided on the Zenith tank with Kroma A mod and a fellow reddit user gave me an Aspire Tigon MTL tank as well.
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First and only juice I have tried so far has been CloudBerry Vapors 50/50 25mg salts (iced coffee and strawberry kiwi). The first day or two I was pretty amazed with vaping in general because it seemed like it was going to be easy to quit cigarettes. I did notice right away though that the flavors were very muted and I was definitely expecting more. As the days went by it was hit or miss. Some days I could hardly taste anything while others I would get the VERY faint flavor or whichever juice I was using. Either way I want more flavor and I think it’s the only chance I have at quitting for good.
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I knew I wanted to make my own juice so I have been researching that for the past few weeks also. I am trying to figure out if it’s worth making my own nic salts or if I should maybe try a sub ohm tank with only 6mg freebase? From what I am reading it looks like I have a few things working against me regarding flavor..
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Nic salts already have more of a muted flavor
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Using MTL tanks with 1.2 and 1.6 Ohm coils won’t give good flavor
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Some people say the higher strength the nicotine the more it dulls the flavor
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Haven’t looked into nic salt specific recipes either yet. From what I am reading it looks like I can use any recipe I find but that I should just increase the flavor percentages? That’s a whole separate thing I will have to figure out then. Sorry for the long post just getting pretty overwhelmed trying to figure out if I should make juice, try a sub ohm tank instead, or maybe hold off on the juice making and spend the money on an RTA and coil making kit (would I even get that much more flavor from an RTA if I am still using a higher resistance coil over 1 ohm?)
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Current tanks:
-Zenith 1.6 coil
-Tigon 1.2 coil
I was planning on making nic salts 50/50 and around 15mg-20mg to start and slowly working my way down.
Nic salts do not mute flavor. That comes from low powered pod devices.
I read that also and wasn't 100% sure what to think. I am using my mod at either 12 or 14 watts. Lets say I had 10mg freebase and 10mg salts from the same company.. you're saying I'd get 100% the exact same amount of flavor from either on my device? Thanks for the reply just trying to understand this all before I start mixing.
Hey I'm no expert. But I've been vaping for over 6 years. And I make my own e-liquid. Imo. I think you are do the best thing possible by researching all you can about vaping. Props. But it sound like your overwhelming youself a little bit. Just try to take it one step at a time. Making your own juice is easy yes but messing with nicotine is not. I don't suggest starting off with Nic salts. If your that interested in it. Look up DIYORDIE on youtube. But to make it easier try vaping 70/30 blends or higher in PG. I don't know what flavors you are into but The One brand and Jam Monster are some of the more full flavored juices I have tried. Now as far as tanks go. If your having problems with not tasting juice you can go with a subtank. Like the Falcon and just restrict the airflow. Mess coils seem to have the best flavor out there. Well I hope this helps. Good luck and happy clouds.
Thanks for the reply. I am not worried about mixing as I have a somewhat decent background with similar things (legal things). I've also been watching tons of videos and reading a lot on here. I am just trying to better understand which direction I should go. From my understanding I can't use mesh coils because I am using higher strength salts and the mesh coils are all sub-ohm. I guess I am just trying to see if mixing 15-25mg nic salts for an MTL tank with pre-built coils is worth it flavor wise? Or if I should just get an RTA and learn to build coils and then eventually make juice.... or just get a sub ohm tank and see if 6mg freebase will get me off the cigarettes lol
Woah, so 15mg-25mg is pretty high when you are subohming. What ohm coils are you using? There is no cheaper (and more fun imo) way to vape other than making your own juice. You can make super flavorful ejuice yourself quite easily. Yes, be careful with the nic but i assume your an adult and already know this. I suggest finding a ejuice you like and making a clone of it. Tons of recipes on Pinterest.
In my experience or opinion, once the juice is made and you have mixed it up, there wasn't much, if any, difference between freebase nic and nic salts as far as flavor. Nude nicotine is my usual go to for nicotine (freebase or salts). If you are this into vaping already, i def suggest an RTA for flavor. Plus, staying active with new devices and methods of vaping really helped me in the beginning of my journey away from the stinkies. There are some very flavorful subohm tanks out too but they really chuck the clouds and you may need to work your way to that. There are some nice MTL RTA's on the market.
Sorry my other comment might not have made much sense I was in a rush. I'm not sub-ohming the 25mg salts. I currently have the Zenith tank with 1.6 coils and the Tigon tank with 1.2 coils. What I meant was.. I hear that I can get more flavor with sub ohm tanks so I was debating if I should maybe just get a different tank and see if 6mg freebase will get me off the cigarettes.. or if I need to stick with the MTL tank and higher mg salts. Yea I knew right away when I started reading about al this stuff weeks ago that I would get sucked into it lol. I do that with everything I get into. Besides work I've pretty much done nothing but research this stuff for the past 3 weeks straight. I drive myself nuts debating because I don't wanna spend tons of money and end up with stuff I don't like or hardly use.. so that's why I got back and forth.. making juice.. getting an RTA and learning to make coils first.. trying sub-ohm tank.. etc lol.
Don't bother trying 6mg/ml freebase. Just buy nic salts if you want to go above 3mg/ml. Your throat will thank you.
Nic salts can be mixed at lower concentrations, you don't need to go crazy with the strength just because you're using salts. The only reason for using really high concentrations is using gear that generates very little vapor.
Yea I wasn't quite sure what strength to go with at first. I typically smoke maybe a pack and a half a day (I don't keep track because I make my own cigarettes). I went with 25mg salts and that's all I have tried so far. Thankfully the owner of cloudberry has been a huge help and I actually have more juice coming from him tomorrow. I have 3 flavors all in 15mg freebase and then the same 3 flavors in 15mg salts. My thinking was I can mix them to hopefully get a decent but not too crazy throat hit while still getting enough nic.
I’ve never tried salts so I can’t help there. I have a profile RDA it uses mesh strips and it’s pretty flavorful not an amazing amount more that any of the RTAs I’ve used. But yea I see how u wouldn’t want to use high nic with it, it pumps out a lot of vapor even at the low end of the wattage recommendation. I’d start out cranking your current setup higher on the watts and c of the flavor comes out. Building coils is super ez it’s just wrapping wire around cylinder unless u want to make your own fancy wire from scratch. I just use plain ss round wire. U can buy spoils of premade Clapton wire and I’d guess some of the others too. But the fancy wire needs a lot of power so u need a 2 or more battery device unless u like changing batteries every 20 min which is part of the reason I just use round wire. Right now I’m using a ijoy captain it’s dual coil 28 gage 316 ss I think 8 wraps which gives me about .5 ohms and I’m like it at 17.5 watts. It pumps out decent vapor and pretty good flavor. I’m sure there’s a lot I could to do get more flavor but kinda limited due to my mod being a single battery
I'm surprised no one has even mentioned vapers tongue despite the guy saying he quit 2 weeks ago
I should have mentioned that in the OP. Yea I am wondering if part of it is vapors tongue but my g/f who quit smoking over a year ago that tried it and said it doesn't really have much flavor either. I'm sure it's part of the lack of flavor but I just expected a little more I guess. I know another huge thing I read is drinking water.. if I am being honest normally I don't drink any water. I am probably the most unhealthy person.. very picky and eat like complete crap and drink coffee all day long almost. Two bigs cups in the morning.. from coffee in the afternoon and either iced or hot coffee at night.. and no water. I've been trying to make myself drink it more especially since vaping. The first 3 days were awesome. I didn't even want a cigarette. I went from 30+ one day to ONE the next day.. then the following two days I had 3 each day. Now I am pack to probably a pack if not a little more
Yeah, you're going to have to start drinking water mate. Vaping dries you out both your mouth and lungs etc. Its vital to drink a lot. It's another excuse to improve your health :) dry mouth also causes dmm vapers tongue.
I also quit in a day and I used to smoke both cigs and joints with tobacco and no filter (also quit weed)
Only felt like smoking 3 times or so since I quit and I've also stopped a year ago or so. Just chain vape whenever you feel the need for a cig.
A very good flavorful and cheap rta is the vapefly galaxies. You can also try a MTL RDA or a good DL RDA even a DL rta to get better flavor.
That said what coils are you using. I've read that the 0.8 ohm zenith coils have far more flavor than the 1.6 ohm ones. Apparently 1.6 ohm coils have muted flavor and they get better after you break them in (vape a bit on them) if you dont have them try getting a 0.8 ohm coil for your zenith that might make a massive difference
That I said I don't have one myself so I dont know what to expect from the zenith and how much better or worse it is compared to an MTL rta. I googled it and one of the first results claimed the flavor was incredible but only with the 0.8 ohm coils and that the 1.6 ohm coil had noted flavor so that might be your issue
If you're getting a rebuildable I'd first recommend you to get a DL rda maybe you'll like that more and it will definitely Italy give you good flavor.
Yea I've made it a point to buy lots of water last week and the past few days especially I have been forcing myself to drink it throughout the day. It's more of a habit thing.. I just don't do it often so I forget. As far as the Zenith coils.. I've only used the 1.6 so far... I have a 0.8 plexus that came with the kit but from my understanding I shouldn't be sub-ohming 25 mg salts right? I am curious though.. what if I used the 0.8 coil but just used it at lower wattage than the recommended?
It's very normal to have muted flavor if you just quit smoking mate. We call it vapers tongue. Years of smoking have ruined both your taste buds and your ability to smell so you will not taste flavors properly at first. This might take weeks or maybe even months
Of course the rta, build etc you use also makes a bug difference. But if you have vapers tongue even the best rta and build won't help you
For me It took months before I suddenly could taste 10x as much as before and stopped getting vapers tongue constantly. When I first started I couldn't taste most flavors or they were super muted no matter what I did or tried. As time passed my ability to taste flavors became more and more sensitive being able to pick up notes I never could before etc
P.s. I started with an AIO device and quickly switched to my first mod and rta which helped with flavor but I could often still not taste it that well.. I got multiple MTL tanks etc
I decided to get an RDA because that was supposed to give the best flavor and I was blow away by the difference. I always thought I'd stay MTL forever and didnt see the appeal in dl until I tried it and loved it. Been vaping dl since then
Going back to my MTL tanks I taste them 10x better now than I ever did before. As time passed I sometimes got vapers tongue but now it's a very rare thing while before I almost always had vapers tongue.
For now I'd just focus on simple flavors. Dont waste too much money trying to flavor chase since your vapers tongue won't allow you to taste anything properly anyway.
It might be a good idea to get a wasp nano RDA. That's a a very cheap rda with incredible flavor. It's also super easy to build and just a simple round wire built is more than ok to get you insanely good flavor. Anyway it's normal for you to not taste mu much when you've just quit. It's also normal totadtr incredible flavor one day and wake up the next day and taste barely anything from the same tank eith the dame juice.
I know the Zenith tanks well - they are actually fantastic for an MTL device with premade coils.
Biggest tip: Buy the 0.8ohm coils. Run them around 18-20W. Then multiply flavorings of recipes by 1.5 or even double. Love the little Kroma-A mods too. You're on the right track mate!
Isn't it not good to sub ohm higher mg nicotine? I've been vaping 25mg salts (1.6 coil at 14 watts and 1.2 coil at 12 watts). I do have the 0.8 plexus coil that came with the Zenith but I was under the impression I shouldn't sub ohm anything higher than 6mg-8mg?
u/3choBlast3r 's comment in this thread answered these (sub ohm) questions really well.
In Australia there's only 3 coils options available so it may differ where you are - but the 0.8 coil should just be a normal kanthal coil, the Plexus is a 0.5ohm coil. Use the 0.8 kanthal coil at around 18W. I mix at 13-14mg with regular freebase nic MTL, that's about my limit, if I wanted to go higher I'd use a mix of freebase and nic salt.
OP is confused about the coils being under 1 ohm (subohm). He probably heard someone say "it's not good to subohm high nic juice". Which must be confusing# but when people say that what they mean is that it's not good to vape high nicotine juices direct lung.
If your MTL coil is below 1 ohm it won't matter at all. You're still only vaping MTL like a cigarette and aren't vaping massive clouds directly into your lungs.
You'll absolutely get better flavor with an rta. Get yourself a spool of vandy vapes mtl fused Clapton wire, a coil jig, and an rta and you'll be much better off. I spent a lot of time researching rebuildables when I first started and was overwhelmed and it kept me from moving to an rta for awhile. When I finally did I was a little upset that I waited so long. It's super easy and nothing to be nervous or worried about.
Thanks! Yea I've already done tons of research about coil building so I know I won't have a problem with that (most of it). I was debating about doing it now because I just bought these tanks and wanted to get into juice making first but maybe I should wait. Just need to decide on a good RTA and then also decide if I wanna piece together a coil building kit or just buy an over priced kit that has everything. To get started with coils I just need an ohm meter/tester thingy, wire and cotton right? I'll prob grab one of those little coil wrappers also.
If you have a regulated mod you won't even need an ohm meter. Just wire, a jig, and cotton. Oh also flush cutters for the wire. There are a lot of really good mtl tanks out now that are reasonably priced with this big mtl resurgence going on now
Awesome thanks! Yea I have a few on a list that seemed to stand out over the past few weeks I've been researching on here. One thing I haven't researched yet is what kind of wire and cotton I should get. I def like MTL and I am probably going to be on nic salts for a while.. 15mg to 20mg at least. So you think I'd get a decent bit more flavor with higher strength salts with an RTA than I would the Zenith or Tigon?
Also what are some sites you recommend to get coil building stuff from? Looking for somewhere I can get the wire, cotton, pliers, and jig all together.
Yeah I agree with the RTA, I use top airflow RTA's since leaking was the bane of my existence for a while. Right now I run the Augvape Intake and the OBS NANO for single coil, OBS Nano Engine II and Geekvape Zeus X for dual coil. Not AS flavorful as the the bottom airflow RTA's, but I still get a ton of flavor.
Also if you go this route, do yourself a favor and get one of these kits. They are fantastic for when you decide to start wrapping your own coils, which you probably will. Even if you don't you will use everything in this kit.
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BHL18JL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I almost exclusively mtl these days but then switch when I’m testing flavors or trying new ideas/other people’s mixes. I’m very happy with how flavors come out in my mtl even though it’s way more intense in my Clapton build dual coil rdas. Some stuff even tastes better on my mtls at low watts! Case in point was gold and even on a suggestion by u/MagnumStyledDong regarding a commercial juice, Homeward by bigglesworth labs. Both were incredible mtl for some odd reason where dtl they just were decent.
So I think it depends. As a general rule, you’ll get a different experience mtl rda over rta over coils and rdas are generally top for massive flavor blasts with the right builds on the right devices. They have so much customizability that it’s insane, you can just dial everything in to exactly what works for you and your taste buds.
Thanks for the reply! I am pretty much read to order stuff once I decide on maybe 2 recipes to try. So I can use any recipe since even if it's for freebase? I guess I am worried because I searched this forum and read tons of posts/comments and it seems most people are saying with higher mg salts there isn't as much flavor.. so I see a lot of people saying to up the flavor percentages for each recipe?
Honestly it’s up to a lot of factors. But u/EdibleMalfunction said it best regarding devices etc. I have heard people say mtl is more flavor than dtl and I definitely disagree. But that isn’t to say you can’t get an amazingly satisfying vape off mtl. And the zenith people say great things about.
I think you’re biggest factor on taste will be how long you’re off smoking. It takes a second to gain all your taste back. DIY does come with a learning curve so be ready to experiment a little. If you do want to vape above 6mg, particularly as high as 12+ I’d recommend to start with salts. I’d go freebase only 6 and below but I vape low. I notice even the salt is tougher for me (but manageable) at 6-12 but I’m normally at 0.5 dtl and 1.5-4 mtl.
If that doesn’t answer your question please keep asking.
So I’ve been vaping exclusively for oh about 8 years now and when I started there was really only MTL stuff available unless u wanted to go mech mod and RDA. Now I use a RTA and aegis mod. Over the years I’ve found the flavor comes from the vapor and vapor comes from power try upping your watts. Also don’t b afraid of RTA I’ve had like 5 and they aren’t that hard to wick just watch a few videos on how to do it for the particular RTA u get. Also RTAs every cheap after the initial investment if u make your own coils. And even buying premade coils are pretty cheap if u clean them. Making juice is pretty easy I just started that about 6 months ago I used to spend 50 a month on juice now it’s like 50 every 3 months on juice making supplies. Biggest thing is to find the recipes u wasn’t to make and order the flavors to make them not go off what sounds good. Example: my first order I ordered vanilla bourbon thinking of I like to drink bourbon and a hint of vanilla in to would b good. It is not bourbon like booze. It is literally a particular type of vanilla so it basically vanilla extract. Also oatmeal cookie thinking I like oatmeal cookies, yea it’s not used in hardly any recipes and doesn’t taste anything like oatmeal cookies by it’s self.
Awesome thanks! Yea I've been watching a lot of videos about coil building and I would be fine with that. That's the kind of thing I am into. Just gotta decide on which MTL RTA to get now. I have a list of a few I see mentioned here often. As far as DIY juice I will probably look for a coffee recipe first and start with that. This would be so much easier if I bought packs of cigarettes.. at that point I might be saving money. I make my own though and I haven't even quit yet and I am already about $200 into vaping between the Zenith kit, juice, and boxes of coils.. 4 of which are now wasted because I just order the lower resistance coils. I wish I knew people that were into vaping around here. It would be awesome to try an RTA and see how it compares to the Zenith. Hard to justify buying another tank when I have two already, 300-400ml of juice and tons of coils and also want to start DIYing
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately not sure what to even do at this point. I got the 0.8 Zenith coils in the mail today expecting a lot more flavor.. still don't taste it much more and not really any more vapor. Not even a nice throat hit with 15mg freebase. If anything it's a harshness/scratchy feeling if I take a big vape. I'm back to smoking more than a pack a day and now I have about $200 into vape stuff already so this sucks.. was really looking forward to making it work for me but now it seems the only way to get more flavor is with an RTA which I can't afford to buy right now.
I’m not familiar at all with that mod or the tank but it’s looks like it only does temp control so u might b kinda stuck with the vapor production though u should b able to bump it up a bit. From the web it looks like it’s got a way to change the watts but U probably already tried that. I’m kinda out of ideas on what gonna make those tanks perform better as I haven’t used a tank in quite a long time. It took me a long time to get fully of the cigs well got easier when they outlawed cloves cause that’s all I smoked. But any way just keep trying hopefully u will find something that works for you. For me it’s vapor production I know when my cotton starts to die i vape a lot more.
You do have to pick your juices more carefully. Complex juices often taste muted and more bland in a mtl. More simple flavours can actually be quite flavourful and satisfying. But mtls in general can't match the flavour of a DL sub ohm. They can be pretty popping with the right juices tho.
Yea I've read that also. I have iced coffee, chocolate glazed funnel cake, and vanilla creme coming today in the mail. All from Cloudberry. Then I also have 4 bottles coming from VapeWild from their sample pack. Maybe I should grad something simple.. a lemonade flavor or something like that
yeah - something with just a couple of flavor profiles, Like i have a grape that's actually better in my mtl's than it is in my dl's. I have my own version of strawberry cream that is delicious. Whereas I have a forest blend that is very nice and full flavoured in my DL's that's just a complete and utter dud in my MTL's = there's a lot of berries going on and htey just muddle and mute.
Try a few simple fruits or the like and see if it perks up for you. I guarantee you that while they may never match a true subohm dl flavour banger, they CAN absolutely produce strong and very flavourful vapes. So if all you are getting is dull and muted, something is wrong.
yea I have no idea at this point.. I got the 0.8 Zenith coils in the mail today. Started with a clean Zenith tank and primed the coil and let it sit for about 30 minutes. Still not good flavor at all using CloudBerry Iced Coffee. It's hardly flavored at all.. I get the slightest hint of possibly a coffee taste. Really wish I had an RTA but already $200 in so can't get one. This is pretty crappy
Yea I read that I should stick with simple recipes with nic salts and higher strength. Not sure if I am even going to get to the point of mixing because vaping just doesn't seem to be enough to get me to stop smoking.. just isn't as satisfying as I thought it was at all. The first 2 days I thought it was going to be easy. Now I have $200 of vape stuff and need an RTA and don't even know how I'm gonna get that.
Try this one if you want an rta - it's rebuildable but don't let that scare you. THe flavour is very strong, and it's very very easy to build. It's a knock off (heh - i guess it's a knock-ofrf) but it'll get the job done just fine and it should be affordable. if you order it, let me know and by the time it gets there you will know every thing you possibly need to in order to use it super easy and fast. It comes in 4 colours if you don't like the black pick a different one from the pull down menu,
https://www.fasttech.com/products/3042/10059286/9683070
I think I made every possible mistake there is to make before I finally got to a place where I completely gave up cigs.
E.g.
Clearomizers -> Atomizers / Tanks -> RTA
CV -> CW -> TC (mod mode)
- Many more :)
Every time I improved my setup, I discovered that the flavour improved, that I could vape more and my cig. use decreased.
The three things that improved my vaping experience most were:
- Temperature control. This lets you suck like a maniac without killing your lungs or burning your lips.
- Change / clean your coils regularly. Nothings tastes better than the first day or two on new coils - then it slowly degrades over a week or two until everything tastes of ass (figuratively!).
- Start lowering your coil resistances over time. I went from 2.8 -> 2.4 -> 1.8 ... -> 0.4 Ohms. I can now pull pretty big clouds of vape and I was easily able to drop my nicotine concentrations from 24mg to 1mg.
^^^^ YMMV but it's what worked for me
How’s your zenith tank? My leaks crazy and I throw it away. I only do nic salt and most of the juices are around 65vp and 35pg. 50/50 is kind thin. And the tanks are Uwell whirl tank and two Hellvape Hellbeast with nautilus coils. Also I use 18 to 22 or 24 watts, then sets at 20w on my mods. For juice brand I suggest you try All Day Vapor nic salts and Decoded Verified. The twelve monkeys are ok too but I find it gives me vapor tongue easily. Maybe because the PG is high like 50 for PG is high. Now I kind want to try the Vapefly Nicolas tank, it’s some how like the whirl tank but not really. You should check it out.