Hello again! This is the second part of my notes on the new Flavorah stuff. The first part is here. Once again, let me know if you have any questions I didn't cover.
Marshmallow Vanilla 3%
This is easily my favorite marshmallow top-note. It is incredibly realistic and an unquestionably good take on the profile. It has the perfect amount of vanilla to show up without becoming the dominant flavor. However, marshmallow flavors have an important role in recipe development outside of their taste. The body of the flavor is just as important. This one doesn't disappoint in that regard either. It's a substantially full mouth-feel, and you can actually feel the powdered sugar coating your mouth. Would I recommend it? I'll go ahead and say that this is another essential one.
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Citrus Soda 3%
This one has made my life slightly more difficult. I've heard some people say that it's supposed to be Mountain Dew, while others have said it's more of a lemon/lime Sprite-esque soda. So when trying it, I am required to figure out who was right. My final decision: neither. I would lean more towards the lemon/lime side of the debate, but this is more complex than a simple two flavor profile. Would I recommend it? Honestly this one wasn't my favorite. It's solid for a citrus soda, but I just didn't enjoy it as much as some of the other ones.
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Brut Bubble Wine 3%
Once again, I've never had the real deal so I don't have a solid reference for accuracy. I've had white wine though, and I guess this one is supposed to be the dry version of that. Here's my problem with this one. The smell is impressively accurate to white wine, even capturing the fermented alcohol content. It doesn't vape that way though. The vape is lacking any discernible boozy top-note, and the actual flavor is outside of my realm of expertise. It seems a bit floral to me, but that could definitely be the lack of reference. I guess it's like Morning Mimosa without the orange based on what Concrete said. Would I recommend it? Unfortunately I can't recommend this one, simply because I don't have the knowledge base to do so. I'll just caution that the smell and the vape are very different entities.
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Juniper Gin 3%
Stepping back into my realm of experience, this one is pretty good. The Juniper on the label is important to note, because this is absolutely loaded with it. It's a super pine forward take on the gin profile, and I'm not mad at it. If you're looking for a more general-purpose gin I would probably go with VT Botanical Gin, but if you're into pine trees this is where it's at. A trending issue I'm finding is the lack of alcohol in these flavors. This is completely lacking of any alcohol content, and I have to talk about it. Would I recommend it? Kinda. If you like juniper heavy vapes, then I would definitely go with this. However, for being a gin it's missing the boozy top-note so I can't say it's essential.
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Tequila Agave 3%
This is a tricky one for me. While it's still missing the alcohol content, it does a solid job of selling agave. Tequila is by far my drink of choice, so I was pretty pumped to try this one. Someone told me that this was like a top-shelf tequila offering and other people said it's more like Jose Cuervo. In this case I'm inclined to agree with the former. Would I recommend it? While I really, really wish it had the boozy top note required to come across as alcohol, it's solid enough and frankly the only tequila flavoring I am aware of. So, yeah I'll recommend this one I guess.
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Back Bar Bitters 1%
I tried this one at 1% because it smells strong enough and will probably find itself as a strict additive. It absolutely delivers. I didn't think I was familiar enough with bitters to recognize the flavor profile, but as soon as I tried it I knew it was accurate. After some research I found out that bitters are made from things like tree bark, herbs, and spices. This has a wonderful spice note akin to cinnamon, and that's what I remember most from the real deal. Would I recommend it? Yeah this one is phenomenal. Not only will this work in a cocktail like it should, but I think this is viable in spiced dessert profiles too.
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Starch Base 1.5%
I tried this one at 1.5% because it just felt right based on the smell. Obviously this belongs in the additive position, but I'll try everything once. It does exactly what you'd expect a starch base to do. It's a non-descript starch that makes me think of rice so that's what I'm going with. Word of caution: at 1.5% solo we're starting to get weird. It has a slight "yeasty/beer" vibe that some people probably won't enjoy, so keep it low. That being said, if you can think of a use for starch in a recipe, this is probably going to get you there. Would I recommend it? Based on accuracy, yes. Based on personal opinion, probably not essential.
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Sweet and Smoky Tobacco 2%
It's a FLV tobacco, so I was already fairly confident that this one would be good. I was really worried about those adjectives though. Sweet and Smoky makes me think of barbecue sauce, not a desirable tobacco flavor. I didn't know what I wanted back then. This is easily one of my favorite tobaccos of all time. The sweet and smoky things are there, but not how I expected. The smoky thing is really accurate to a lightly wood smoked tobacco without being "liquid smoke". The sweet thing is in the tobacco leaf itself. It's not a savory/nutty tobacco at all, it's a very smooth and sweet flavor profile. Would I recommend it? This one goes into the essential category.
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Thanks for the notes. I haven't had the time to dive into mine yet. I've got 29 lemons on my plate. BTW marshmallows are coated in corn starch rather than powdered sugar. It acts like an anti sticking/caking agent.
Commercially yes, but homemade marshmallows usually just have extra powdered sugar. Either way, it has that thing going on.
You're both right . . . powdered sugar is super fine granulated sugar and cornstarch. On another note . . . very excited about these flavors. Just picked up Vanilla Marshmallow, Sweet and Smokey Tobacco, Rose Essence, and Jammy Berry.
Thanks for the notes. Any idea when these will be for sale?
Sounds like juniper gin might be fun with yakima hops to go for a more pine forward ipa like mix.
Thanks for taking the time to write these up!
Because I know you love theorycrafting; what would you use for a 1-2-3 Margarita using Tequila Agave?
I see Persian Lime at the 3% mark, and then 1% Tequila Agave might be enough. I'm not sure what fills the gap to complete a margarita. I almost want to say one of the VT alcohol flavors to bring an actual boozy top note, in which case Light Rum at 2%.
I’m intrigued by the sweet and smoky tobacco. How strong are the smoky wood notes? Are they forward enough to notice up front, or do you have to look for them? My immediate reaction was to wonder how it’d fare with 0.125-0.2% FLV Beer Nuts for a bit of nutty salt and 0.125% FA Black Fire for a bit of char/extra smoke, but if the smokey wood is forward enough, it wouldn’t need the Black Fire.
Edit: Almost all of the FLV tobaccos seem fairly similar to me, or at least come across like they share the same base with a little something different thrown in. Does the sweet and smoky tobacco have that sort of distinctive “yeah, that’s a FLV tobacco” vibe, or does it stand apart a bit more?
I would say it's forward enough that you won't need Black Fire, but I still see that working if it's not enough smokiness for your preference.
I emailed Flavorah a good little while ago and asked them if they could make a Latakia flavor because everything available with the name “Latakia” tastes nothing like it. A few months go by and they ask if they can send me a development sample of the Latakia they were working on. I tried it and gave them some input. It was not quite there on the smokiness side of things. I sent them a little sample of a Latakia NET that I made to maybe help them get it the rest of the way there. A little while after that I saw a new flavor called Sweet and Smoky was coming out. I haven’t had that, but I’m pretty confident it is probably the same thing they sent me the development sample of. Most likely to see if they could get away with naming it “Latakia.” In my opinion, you’ll still be wanting that Black Fire. It is still very much a Flavorah tobacco. But I think it’ll make a really nice Latakia with just a little Black Fire and nothing else really needed. There’s just something in Black Fire that nobody else seems to be using for their smoky flavor, and I don’t know what it is. I’ve played around with guaiacol and syringol and it’s not those. I’d really like to be able to make my own super smoky additive that I can just add to a Tobacco Absolute and call my life complete.
If you’ve ever tried Reaper Blend or Ol’ River Tobacco from Rocket Fuel Vapes, would you lump that development sample into a similar flavor profile category as those two? Sweet, no savory elements, very cased-leafy-tobacco-forward, no distinctive desserty elements like vanilla or caramel, faint hint of wood chip smoke?
I haven’t tried those, but I would say your description would probably fit well. It’s pretty similar to their Kentucky Blend with a bit more of a smoky taste on top, but not so much a wood chip smoke. Have you tried their Pucker Tobacco? It’s more like that.
I'm super excited for the Back Bar Bitters. I got into DIY for the sole reason to make a Brandy Old Fashioned. I have a recipe already but with new flavors coming out and more mixing experience under my belt, I figured I could revisit it. Maybe the Citrus Soda could help as well?
I have no idea what a Brandy Old Fashioned would taste like. While I love a regular old fashioned, I'm not sure that I've even tasted Brandy before. If you're asking if it would make the bitters into a more citrus based bitters I would say probably not. Based on what Kopel said it will definitely work with orange flavors to make zest though.
Aww, man. Come to Wisconsin for one. Brandy old fashioneds are our drink (that and PBR). The bitters used are angostura bitters, so it's more of an anisey woody semi-citrus like, I think.
As for the Citrus Soda, I currently use CAP lemon lime in my recipe for the 'Sprite' feel. I have both ordered so I'll mess with them when I get a chance.
I'm thinking Yakima Hops and Starch Base may be a useful combo.
I wouldn't expect any less from you. Why in the world would that be a useful combo?
It just dawned on me that in the sweet and smoky tobacco description, you’re describing a specific tobacco flavor profile that makes me think of Reaper Blend and Ol’River Tobacco from Rocket Fuel Vapes. Both are on the decidedly sweet side, not savory in the least, very tobacco forward without what I would characterize as obvious desserty notes like vanilla or caramel, with a faint hint of what could probably be described as a wood-chip smokiness. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried Reaper Blend or Ol’ River Tobacco, but on the off chance that you might have, does it compare?