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I got CAP V2 Sugar Cookie by mistake before. It's different and not better. But wasn't completely shitty either. I noticed a lot of creamy flavors without DAAP seem stale to the ones with the goodies in them....I mean "baddies". I have to admit, when I started DIY the fear mongering and big caution signs at BullCity kind of got my attention. After a bit more research I threw caution to the wind. I aint scared homie.

Personally, I don't care. The v1 flavors are almost always better than the v2 or DX, at least to my goat palate, and I mostly mix/vape fruity flavors anyway, so the occasional batch I mix up loaded with DAAP doesn't really concern me.

The problem with trying to provide research is that, quite simply, research bias is a real problem. Two things decide what research is done - funding and chance of publication. And publication bias exists - it's far harder to publish a study where you fail to reject the null hypothesis than a study where you can reject it. However, simple logic states that if smokers are not at risk from their DAAP intake (and given how easy it is to get published if you're piling on tobacco about previously unrecognized risks, there would surely be research available showing this) then those inhaling far less are obviously at far less risk, unleess someone believes one of the many carcinogens in tobacco is effectively a antidote for DAAP.

Is DAAP perfectly harmless? There are no twenty year longitudinal studies about anything in vaping, so there could be some risk. However, if one is worried about DAAP the only sensible solution is to refuse to vape at all, or at least only vape unflavored, because there's just as much chance that any flavor (or even maybe unflavored) is a health risk.

One other thing... When someone posts asking about DAAP we really need to know where they're coming from. The correct answer to their question depends on it.

Has the person made a decision bazed on complete information plus pathological risk aversion? Then they need to be told that no flavoring is completely proven safe, and for that matter neither has vaping been proven safe, because these are true, and there's no reason to believe DAAP-free flavors are any safer or less safe than the others.

Has the person made the decision because they've been misinformed about relative risk levels? Then informing them of the truth and letting them determine whether to update their decision is the correct one.

Was the decision made for commercial reasons (wanting to sell juice)? Informing them of the legalities involved may be required. And if they're asking about how to make substiturions with DX flavors for that, it means they plan to use other people's work to turn a profit, so do we really want to help them? (Also, unless someone is going to test their juice, lying is a completely valid strategy for them, given their willingness to engage in intellectual property theft.)

If they want to spread misinformation about the risk level, and perpetuate the big lie which was used to attack vaping, that nonsense has to be countered.

I was initially quite wary of DAAP and have bought quite a few. I still havent tried many normal versions yet. I think some v2s arent about daap, but will mention them anyway. Ill keep it short, as im on mobile and I work soon.

The good

• DX TFA Bavarian cream - vanilla creamy, but thin. Ive used this significantly without issue.
• Cap New York Cheesecake v2 - creamy and delicious.
• DX caramel original - this seems fine, I've used it a bit.
• DX juicey peach - just peachy
• DX peanut butter - as well all know, its good. But why? I have the normal for once. The normal looses or changes flavour due to the seemingly oily and buttery normal deal mix. The DX is a bit dry, but its leftbwith only this good, delicious and strong peanut flavour.
• DX vanilla custard - totally fine, just a fair but thin. It needs a month to pucker up, which can be pretty annoying.
• Cap raspberry v2 - this seemed fine to me, bit realistic a bit fake. I need to review it again.

The bad

• Cap sugar cookie v2 - Biscuit without the butter and cream. Ive had mixed results.
• DX vanilla cup cake - it tries, but under the sweetness and a bit of cake, it has a weird flavour and no body. I tried it to substitute fw yellow cake, it does nothing well.

The ugly

• DX tfa banana cream - contains butric acid (?), which means it smells like preschool: vomit and banana. The only redeeming factor is that 4-6 weeks later, this dissapates. I also found that it makes me cough up until then.
• DX tfa sweet cream - vomitous cream. Adds cream... that seems off. Baby just vomited some breast milk, mix it in your juice cobber.
• DX marshmallow - this has a disgusting, strong flavour. I tasted a weird flavour, such I dumped the juices it was in.

I got DX Bananas Foster. Disappointing. Just wondering does that weird taste steep out? Anybody use it?

There's a lot of righteous hate of Flavour Art due to their stance on DAAP flavourings. And rightly so. I suppose they're not baseball cap "cool" like Flavorah in certain mixing circles but i couldn't give a toss.

At the same time, I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bath water cause many of their classsic flavours are unbeatable albeit, a little "thin" tasting. Nothing comes near FA Nut Mix; FA Hazelnut; FA Almond; FA Cookie; FA Cream Fresh for accenting recipes.

In 4 years time, I have only had 2 of these type flavors.

Cap Sugar Cookie V2 was noticeably weaker and just weird to me. Tossed it after 2 tries.

Cap Vanilla Custard V2 is not that bad to me. It absolutely needs a month steep to be vapable imo. I use V1 myself, but keep V2 on hand for a friend who prefers it over V1.

CAP Vanilla Custard v2 is pretty decent with a longer steep. Definitely lacks the richness and depth that the original has. That's my only experience with dx/v2 flavors. I think the pissy attitude and general aggravation with myself included. Is that those of us who have been around the block know that the DAAP/Popcorn Lung thing tied to vaping is an out an out lie perpetrated by the media and uninformed. Those are the facts that can't be denied. Vape what you want though.

"Can we please stop harassing users who are just looking for advice about DAAP free concentrates and not a debate?" was a pretty good post. I felt like the word "harassing" was bit much, but I agree with the older comedian I just saw in a video saying "Harassment is the like the pain scale at the hospital: My generation's 2 is the younger generation's 11."

But the point of the post was a good one. Harm reduction isn't black or white, it's a spectrum. People may wish to take it all the way to the extreme of vaping only unflavored juice without nicotine on one end, or people might vape 10% FA Butter 12mg all day long on the other and think "Well, at least I'm not smoking." Both are are on the harm reduction spectrum. No matter where someone else falls on the spectrum, there's no need to try to convert them to be closer to where you fall on it. No need to make a debate out of it. Just respect their personal decision and if you don't have anything helpful to say, move along.

Personally, I love me some diketones and don't appreciate fearmongering. I've seen some data about how much exposure we're talking about in vaping vs. smoking vs. working in a popcorn factory and I'm not concerned about any health risk, especially compared to smoking. But that's my choice, just like eating bacon cheeseburgers and drinking tequila on weeknights are my choices, and don't get me started how much I hate using condoms. At least I wear my seatbelt.

TFA DX Sweet Cream was one of the nastiest flavors I've ever tried. Straight up baby formula vomit. TFA is nice enough to list their components, so it's not hard to see why, that stuff is loaded with butyric acid, which is the flavor of vomit. But it's rich creamy vomit, and that is the problem with DX and V2, in many cases they've replaced the rich creamy scary ingredients with the rich creamy barfy one.

TFA DX Peanut Butter is my favorite of all the peanut butters I've tried. Even after someone I trusted told me it was good, I checked the components list on TFA's website before buying it. Sure enough, no butyric puke flavor in that one. It's awesome of them to provide that components list, most transparency of any flavor company.

As for the Capella V2's, I've only tried two of them. Vanilla Custard V2 needs to steep for a month to not be gross and even then has a different flavor than V1, which might be more desirable to some or for some uses, but I don't find it nearly as rich and satisfying. Pomegranate was the other one. There was nothing terribly wrong with that one. I wouldn't automatically write off a CAP flavor just because it's V2. Maybe they didn't replace a diketone with a barftone. Maybe they did like TFA with the Peanut Butter and just reformulated it some other way.

I'm sensitive to butyric acid. V2 is a no-go.

There's no real evidence to show us any risk with DAAP, and its still an enormous harm reduction compared to cigs, so I'm not going to cut custards out of my menu any time soon and will continue to use diketones for my mixes.

While there's no hard data that shows that DAAP can cause long term issues, there's also no hard data that shows it WON'T. I personally don't have any issue using DAAP flavors, in fact most of the flavors that are notorious for containing diketones are generally more popular, well received, and just generally delicious.

That being said I don't think there's anything wrong with people trying to minimize harm further. The beauty of DIY is that we can all do whatever the fuck we want, and it shouldn't fucking matter to anyone else. If people are looking for V2's or alternatives because they want to avoid diketones, that's fine. But V2 versions of flavorings aren't the only option anymore. FA and FLV have a wide range of options available to us that we can utilize to both have delicious flavors and also avoid DAAP if that's what we want.

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For me, after smoking for 30 years, not too much in vaping scares me. Because of vaping I no longer have an oxygen tank beside my table full of breathing medications. I rarely get colds, or whatever other virus is going around. After smoking all the crap that is in cigarettes for so long, I'm just going by how my body feels, and my body says VAPING IS WAYYYY BETTER THAN SMOKING ANYDAY!!!!!!!!!!!! And in addition to that, I like the way that DAAP tastes! :)

I love DAAP and everything v1. There are only one or two flavors where the v2 is better (looking at you tfa dx peanut butter). I am not that worried about health risks as there is waaaayy less daap in my beloved cake and cream flavors than there ever were in the cigarettes I used to smoke.