Any Utah diyer knows that our state sucks in regards to vaping. There have been sites that still shipped to Utah. Nicotine river was one of them. Until today.
Received an email stating they would no longer ship to the state. So any diyers from Utah, drop your sites below because nicriver was my go to for all ejuice ingredients.
Email:
Hello, I am contacting you today regarding Utah state regulations. You are receiving this email because you have placed an order on our website and that order shipped to the state of Utah. If you do not order Nicotine, this information is still relevant and good to know, but not 100% necessary since it doesn’t apply to you and we hope you have a good day. If you have ordered Nicotine from our company and ship to the state of Utah then it is important to know that moving forward Nicotine River will be abiding by Utah state laws regarding tobacco products. We have searched diligently for systematic and legally acceptable ways around this regulation, but have failed. We ultimately must respect the regulations of Utah to ensure that its policies are not infringed upon by an interstate business. Below is a quoted excerpt of the Utah regulations we will be abiding by, “*The in-person sale law concerning tobacco products includes traditional tobacco products (e.g., cigarettes, cigar, smokeless tobacco, etc.) and vapor products. In Utah, a business can only sell tobacco to a customer in person, meaning a business cannot sell tobacco to a Utah customer by telephone, mail, the internet, or through self-service displays. There are two exceptions to this law:
Tobacco retailers are allowed to sell tobacco by telephone, mail or the internet only to buyers who have a tobacco license.
Tobacco specialty stores and adult facilities are allowed to have self-service displays, such as vending machines.
Those who break this law can be given a criminal penalty. This law is meant to keep tobacco away from youth. Within a store, it’s easier for the cashier to check for ID. This is more difficult when the sale happens over the phone or online. We encourage retailers to make changes to their business policy to prevent the sale of tobacco to unlicensed customers.” Please keep in mind, this does not hinder our ability to ship to commercial addresses or businesses in the state of Utah. This just means that we are now unable to ship tobacco products directly to the consumer.Moving forward, if you do own a business and would like to continue ordering Nicotine from us, all we require is a: Tobacco Retailers License. If you do not have this license then please send us your business license as any form of proof is appreciated. If you have submitted your license as a business, and need to order. Please email us what you’re in need of to: Sales@nicotineriver.com or call us at: 805-375-0401 to place an order via phone. Our website will be unable to process any orders shipping to Utah so we must be contacted directly for any orders shipping to businesses. Please email your tobacco and/or business licenses to: Sales@nicotineriver.com We are aware many customers ordering our Nicotine will have concerns regarding this email. Please feel free to contact:Info@nicotineriver.com with any further questions. Although we did not plan on having this occur, but we must ultimately follow Utah’s state tobacco regulations and respectfully understand their wants and needs. Nicotine River aims to be as regulated as possible on a state and federal level and appreciate your understanding.  Wesley Boatman Nicotine River Manager & Problem Solver 805-375-0401 2535 Conejo Spectrum St. Thousand Oaks, CA, 91320 Website: www.nicotineriver.com
Tobacco Retailers License: 091388152 Tobacco Manufacturers License: 90-300744 Tobacco Distributors License: 90-007780 Chief Operating Officer:Mnelson@nicotineriver.com Purchasing: Lupita@nicotineriver.com Shipping: Jose@nicotineriver.com Accounting: Accounting@nicotineriver.com Customer Service: Info@nicotineriver.com Quality Control: Sam@nicotineriver.com Sales: Sales@nicotineriver.com Human Resource: Hr@nicotineriver.com Marketing: Marketing@nicotineriver.com Notice: This e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of these communications is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Our products are only sold to adult smokers, 21 years of age or older. By accepting or any association or communication with this email, you are stating that you are attesting that you are at least 21 years old. Nicotine River LLC does not intentionally collect or solicit personal information from or about children or anyone under the age of 21. If we discover we have received any information from an individual under the age of 21 and in violation of these terms, we will delete that information immediately. If you believe Nicotine River LLC has any information from or about anyone under the age of 21, please contact us immediately.
That is too bad. Lost a loyal customer over a law that Utah cannot even enforce. Will take my business for flavoring elsewhere since I can no longer do a one stop shop for my vaping supplies.
Hide quoted text
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 11:13 AM Wesley Boatman <wes@nicotineriver.com> wrote:
Hello, I am contacting you today regarding Utah state regulations. You are receiving this email because you have placed an order on our website and that order shipped to the state of Utah. If you do not order Nicotine, this information is still relevant and good to know, but not 100% necessary since it doesn’t apply to you and we hope you have a good day. If you have ordered Nicotine from our company and ship to the state of Utah then it is important to know that moving forward Nicotine River will be abiding by Utah state laws regarding tobacco products. We have searched diligently for systematic and legally acceptable ways around this regulation, but have failed. We ultimately must respect the regulations of Utah to ensure that its policies are not infringed upon by an interstate business. Below is a quoted excerpt of the Utah regulations we will be abiding by, “*The in-person sale law concerning tobacco products includes traditional tobacco products (e.g., cigarettes, cigar, smokeless tobacco, etc.) and vapor products. In Utah, a business can only sell tobacco to a customer in person, meaning a business cannot sell tobacco to a Utah customer by telephone, mail, the internet, or through self-service displays. There are two exceptions to this law:
Tobacco retailers are allowed to sell tobacco by telephone, mail or the internet only to buyers who have a tobacco license.
Tobacco specialty stores and adult facilities are allowed to have self-service displays, such as vending machines.
Those who break this law can be given a criminal penalty. This law is meant to keep tobacco away from youth. Within a store, it’s easier for the cashier to check for ID. This is more difficult when the sale happens over the phone or online. We encourage retailers to make changes to their business policy to prevent the sale of tobacco to unlicensed customers.” Please keep in mind, this does not hinder our ability to ship to commercial addresses or businesses in the state of Utah. This just means that we are now unable to ship tobacco products directly to the consumer.Moving forward, if you do own a business and would like to continue ordering Nicotine from us, all we require is a: Tobacco Retailers License. If you do not have this license then please send us your business license as any form of proof is appreciated. If you have submitted your license as a business, and need to order. Please email us what you’re in need of to:Sales@nicotineriver.com or call us at: 805-375-0401 to place an order via phone. Our website will be unable to process any orders shipping to Utah so we must be contacted directly for any orders shipping to businesses. Please email your tobacco and/or business licenses to:Sales@nicotineriver.com We are aware many customers ordering our Nicotine will have concerns regarding this email. Please feel free to contact:Info@nicotineriver.com with any further questions. Although we did not plan on having this occur, but we must ultimately follow Utah’s state tobacco regulations and respectfully understand their wants and needs. Nicotine River aims to be as regulated as possible on a state and federal level and appreciate your understanding.  Wesley Boatman Nicotine River Manager & Problem Solver 805-375-0401 2535 Conejo Spectrum St. Thousand Oaks, CA, 91320 Website: www.nicotineriver.com
Tobacco Retailers License: 091388152 Tobacco Manufacturers License: 90-300744 Tobacco Distributors License: 90-007780 Chief Operating Officer:Mnelson@nicotineriver.com Purchasing: Lupita@nicotineriver.com Shipping: Jose@nicotineriver.com Accounting: Accounting@nicotineriver.com Customer Service: Info@nicotineriver.com Quality Control: Sam@nicotineriver.com Sales: Sales@nicotineriver.com Human Resource: Hr@nicotineriver.com Marketing: Marketing@nicotineriver.com Notice: This e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of these communications is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Our products are only sold to adult smokers, 21 years of age or older. By accepting or any association or communication with this email, you are stating that you are attesting that you are at least 21 years old. Nicotine River LLC does not intentionally collect or solicit personal information from or about children or anyone under the age of 21. If we discover we have received any information from an individual under the age of 21 and in violation of these terms, we will delete that information immediately. If you believe Nicotine River LLC has any information from or about anyone under the age of 21, please contact us immediately.
Hmm. Looks like Utah is making a tax grab. How much do they charge for a tobacco retailer license?
No idea. This has been a law for a while but most sites ignore it because it is unenforceable as Utah can't go through your mail.
True. But the cops can order nicotine online and, once they recieve it, charge NicRiver (or whoever sends it to them).
While petty if that were to take place I believe any half decent lawyer could have it tossed. It's not a finished product. Nicotine has other uses besides vaping. Flavors are well just flavors. The profit from small DIY sales to Utah would likely not outweigh the legal bills though. Easier to just say fuck it not worth the headache.
Yeah that's why I suggested vaperstek. Nic river follows the regs as far as shipping nic/hazardous stuff so the they would know without going through your mail. Vaperstek ships regular first class or priority just like any other package.
But Utah can enforce it. Chicago has done a couple of stings and are suing. Not worth the risk.
Haven't seen anywhere that Chicago banned online purchases. Got a source I can look at?
I don't see how they can enforce it if it is a federal offense to go through someone's mail. Just because it's label is associated with vape doesn't mean the contents are strictly for vaping which can only be mods and atomizers/tanks. Everything else hardware and ingredient wise has multiple purposes. Not disagreeing with you, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Reading over all that...
Yup, we're screwed. If they're willing to forge documents to further their agenda we are properly fucked in the US.
Lying to the media is one thing. Dragging those lies into the courtroom shows a level of callousness that frankly doesn't surprise coming from any politician.
How close are you to the border of another state? Any friends that live just out of state? You can ship it there and either pick it up or have a friend send it to you. If you're a 20 minute drive from another state try a PO box there and just use it for nicotine.
I ordered a gallon of 100MG PG Base from Nic River right after the last supplier I was going through was no longer supplying to Utah based customers. I have been storing it in my deep freezer and luckily PG has a low viscosity at low temperatures compared to VG (VG is like cold honey). I had a feeling this day would come, and now I am sad. Luckily I have family out of state that would gladly redirect my package to my house if needed (probably venmo enough for a six pack), but I am about another year out of running out of the stuff I have currently.
I'd try Vapers Tek for nic and bcf for flavors. Shouldn't have any issues with BCF as they don't sell nicotine.
Used bcf before. Had a bad experience where a bottle ended up spilling during shipping and couldn't get anyone to do anything about it. Might have to give them another shot tho. Thanks for the suggestion on the nic. Will check them out. Edit: spelling
If you're going to split anyway, can still get nic from Vaporstek and make your normal orders through nic river.
It's not their fault your State Government wants to tax you to death.
Also, if a tobacco license is all that's needed, might want to check how high those hurdles are. If it's thousands of dollars and a multi year process you're only out the 5 minutes you spent asking. If it's a form and $50 registration fee, why wouldn't you get one?
Well I don't split normally which is why it's a bummer. I know it's not their fault, Utah sucks. Just sucks that they have been ignoring it this long and are now shutting it down. I get why, Utah is anti vape.
I guess I could look into the stipulations for a tobacco license. Would be highly amusing if that was the loophole.