Every time someone mentions it without fail the post immediately devolves into a bunch of people telling them they should just use "regular" flavors and there are far more posts talking about it than what the OP asks.
If the OP wants a discussion on the topic that is one thing and of course there is nothing wrong with discussing it in the appropriate time and place. An OP that isn't asking for discussion and chooses to come to this sub to ask for advice regarding DAAP free concentrates is not the time or the place.
Just because you are okay with vaping it (and for the record so am I) doesn't mean its wrong for others to choose not to. Many people ask and vape things and in ways which I don't agree with but I don't sit there and try to lecture them because its their choice
You guys are just as bad as the anti Di-ketone people who plagued the vaping subs 2 years ago. The roles have just reversed but nothing has changed.
People are allowed to have their personal preferences and its a shame that if one of those preferences is to vape without di-ketones then they can't post here and get any real help. Just a bunch of people criticizing them.
If you don't have anything helpful to add then just move along.
We've already seen a sharp increase in participation since the rules were relaxed. Its highly likely that participation will increase even more if people can talk about the things they want to discuss without having a bunch of juveniles jumping down their throats if they post about certain subjects that they don't like or agree with.
There are plenty of examples of things certain people avoid in vaping with varying degrees of rationality. Why is it okay for all of them to have a choice without getting chastised while its not for those that prefer not to vape di-ketones?
Like the others I think harassing is probably too strong a word in this case, but as someone who prefers to avoid that stuff I will admit that the attitude you’re talking about does make me feel slightly unwelcome here
I mean, just look at the attitudes I get by simply posting about it.
Maybe harassing was the wrong word but its one word and I think the bulk of the post adequately shows my intentions. A simple search shows this is a common issue. I just finally said something about it.
While it may not be direct harassment its ridiculous that every time someone asks about DAAP free flavors most of the replies they get do not conform to the OP they just tell them how they should be vaping DAAP and not worry about it.
The thing is its a personal choice and it should be able to be discussed without it becoming a DAAP is God and can do no harm so stop not liking what I like.
Hell, I have no problem with it and as I said I do vape it myself but that is a personal choice just as it is a personal choice not to vape them. That should be respected.
The issue is informed choice. A lot of people who prefer DAAP free tend to have the same fears purported by some anti-vape proponents, such as the popcorn lung thing. Hence, the response is often to alleviate the fears and correct the misinformation. That way, they won't need to restrict themselves artificially, and to be better informed.
Now after all of these the user still prefer DAAP free, then that's fine. That said, the response has hardly been antagonistic (for the most part).
So anytime anyone posts asking a question about anything everyone should give them a full rundown from farm to plate about whatever it is they are asking about and assume that they are uninformed in their choice before actually addressing their OP?
Edit: or does that just go for DAAP?
That's never been my intention anywhere in my life. To me and others vaping is a feel good story. A great harm reduction tool. No yellow teeth, you don't stink (usually lol), get to see your kids grow up etc. So when you see the media propaganda machine turned up to 11 I for one get on the rooftop. I now question every headline about anything because of these out and out lies about vaping. Sorry you don't feel welcome. On the bright side you could have gotten the Jay and Silent Bob treatment lol.
Color me curious, but aren't there swaths of europe where the juice has to be daap free, or virtually so (pretty sure it's true in britain for store bought juice)? As this is a bit of a global forum, might be useful info to have, if so we can bear those markets in mind.
I’ve stopped posting because I’m just sick of the bullying and harassing. It just seems like people like to bully other people into their frame of thinking instead of actually answering. Even this original post someone is questioning the use of your word “harassing”. Sad, but your post had to be made.
Examples of "harrasment"
"I can't imagine wanting to use DAAP free versions of flavors. For two reasons:
- I don't like the taste of vomit (the usual replacement)
- There's no point, DAAP is orders of magnitude safer than sucrose/fructose...and I already cut my DAAP consumption by quitting smoking "
"From my attempt to do the same: most daap free will give you the flavouring, not the thickness. You can counter this with higher VG and some `mouthfeel` flavourings like fa meringue and whipped cream. Ive used cap van custard v2 a lot and it takes a 3-4 weeks to steep."
"Removing DAAP from your life is going to leave you with two options. One is Buteryic acid, which for most folks tastes somewhere between slightly sour milk and pure vomit. The other is to ditch cream flavors entirely."
"You're not really in danger of DAAP though. I understand being cautious. You won't find what you want with DAAP free shit though. Plus you'll have to deal with BA"
"I was like you when I started. Then I spent 30 minutes reading about DAAP. Straight fear mongering. Unless you work at a microwave popcorn plant or eat it all day long for 2 decades I wouldn't be concerned."
As I said this is not about that post nor is it only confined to that post.
Maybe read the post instead of cherry-picking a single word out of the title to base your whole argument off of.
Also:
>I don't like the taste of vomit
Not all DAAP free juices taste like this. Don't forget the exhaulted TPA DX Free PB that everyone is so in love with right now.
>and I already cut my DAAP consumption by quitting smoking
Two completely different things. Whose to say that there isn't something that occurs during the combustion that nullifies the effect or something in vaping that increases it. We don't have the information yet and if the argument is that they already cut it once then why not back further?
>You're not really in danger of DAAP though
We don't have near enough data on Bronchial Obliterans or the effects of vaping DAAP to make a claim like that.
>You won't find what you want with DAAP free shit though.
Not true. Many people vape DAAP free and have for years.
>Plus you'll have to deal with BA
Not necessarily true either.
>Unless you work at a microwave popcorn plant or eat it all day long for 2 decades I wouldn't be concerned."
Not true either, we only have a few confirmed cases(popcorn factory, popcorn guy, and the coffee roasting guys) the majority of them were settled out of court and we have very little data about the true cause since so few were affected when the numbers should have been much larger.
>Removing DAAP from your life is going to leave you with two options. One is Buteryic acid, which for most folks tastes somewhere between slightly sour milk and pure vomit. The other is to ditch cream flavors entirely.
This isn't true at all. According to OSHA MOST of the flavorings we use have the potential to contain diacetyl(not to mention the others) here is a list: https://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib10142010.html (and thats only for diacetyl not all diketones)
Butter
Butter Pecan
Butterscotch
Brandy
Nutmeg
Strawberry
Cheese
Strawberry Crème
Caramel
Rum
Honey
Cranberry
Cream Cheese
Vanilla Crème
Vanilla
Whisky
Graham Cracker
Raspberry
Cheesecake
Other Crème Flavors
Coffee
Pina Colada
Vinegar
Blackberry
Milk
Root Beer Float
Tea
Meat flavors (e.g. gravy
Boysenberry
Yogurt
Chai
Toffee
Malt
Other berry flavors
Ice Cream
Chocolate (esp. milk chocolate)
Wine
Fruit flavors -nearly any kind (e.g., banana, apple, grape, pear)
Egg
Cocoa
Beer
Cider
Ranch Dressing
Cocoa Butter
Tequila
Tomato
Sour Cream
Maple
Buttermilk
Brown Sugar
Mayonnaise
Marshmallow
Peanut Butter
Praline
Starter Distillate or Butter Starter Distillate
Hazelnut & other nut flavors
new here, what is daap?
Diacetyl, acetoin, acetyl propionyl
Just because I am new here, what is it and why do some choose not to vape it
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/t-FlavorWorkshopCustard.aspx
Basically, they reformulated a bunch of flavors that contained these possibly harmful chemicals. That’s what the “DX” and “v2” versions of flavorings are.
Affected flavors: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavors/warnlist
So easing a users mind about the dangers so that they don't have to vape vomit is harassment? You got to be kidding me.
I'm not sure how you got that out of what I wrote.
Are you serious? Read your damn title.
I did read the title, in fact, I wrote the title. All I am saying is why does someone simply asking for recommendations about flavorings that don't contain certain substances always have to be met with lectures about why what they chose to do is wrong?
I think it should maybe be pointed out also that not all DAAP free versions of flavors contain Butyric Acid. Here is a list of TFA flavors that contain it. quite a few that aren’t even part of the DX line.
If you look through their spec sheets at all the DX flavors, you’ll find that only a few have the stuff that may taste like vomit. I think it’s sort of a circle jerk at this point.
I'm glad somebody else noticed the DAAP hivemind mentality on this reddit. Don't get me wrong, I use DAAP flavours a lot but the way certain mixers go on about it is jarring. The macho refrain, "You gotta have DAAP dude" has become such a childish cliche, it's tiresome to hear. I know i'll get an onslaught of downvotes but the thread poster has a valid point about the lack of diverse opinion around DAAP in certain mixing circles.
Yeah, I've noticed the biased opinions of some commenting when a poster is looking for information on vaping as safely as possible for them. The truth is that NOBODY knows what's really dangerous and what's not when it comes to vaping. There is NO scientific or medical proof one way or the other, but if someone wants to be as safe as they think they can be then more power to them and nobody should try to make them feel more comfortable doing anything else. We're all a bunch of guinea pigs with this whole vaping thing.
You're exactly right. Nic is by far the safest thing we vape followed by PG and then VG and even those could pose a small but possible risk considering the amount we take in and the manor in which we do it.
Adding flavors is just like piling on danger if you look at it that way and many have been called into question.
If someone feels a certain class of chemicals should be avoided then by all means let them avoid them. What's the harm there?
"Nic is by far the safest thing we vape followed by PG and then VG ..."
​
I'm learning about vaping and I'm of the mind of better safe than sorry, somewhat similar to you. Why do you think PG is safer than VG? I thought it was the other way around.
Well two things specifically come to mind.
-
inhalation of pg has more history though nowhere near the levels we are using it at in a heated, aerosolized form.
-
The "bag things" are formed at a higher temp in PG than in VG.
If you really want the safest thing possible then you want high nic unflavored juice with a higher PG content running in a good TC device and under 470F. The temp will keep the compounds from being created, no flavoring will removed as a possible hazard, and the high nic will allow you to take much smaller hits less often resulting in a drastic decrease in the amount of aerosol inhaled.
If you believe this is such a frequent problem then do you agree that the people looking for info should largely just search the archives for their info?
Be the change you want to be. Many duplicate threads won’t take the place of good, searchable advice.
That be nice if reddit's search was more user friendly and not so slapdash. I can't count how many times I've searched for a relatively unique word or phrase, scrolled down miles of threads, and not found the post I was looking for.
Not sure what you think the issue is but it is quite user friendly and if mods removed it you won’t see it.
Great, I'm glad you love it. I hope you and it are happy together for the rest of your lives.
I know I'm not the only redditor who hates reddit's search and the only internet user who hates custom Google searches. They're both ugly and they suck, but if it is good enough for you and others, that's wonderful.
I haven’t seen anything that strikes me as harassment but if anyone feels that they are being harassed feel free to message the mods or even PM me.
Everyone should feel comfortable expressing their opinions. The topic of DAAP hasn’t actually come up much in a long time, so I’m not sure if this post was a necessary reaction.
Anyone is welcome to correct me if I’ve missed something.
Maybe the "attitudes" you are getting has something to do with the way you chose to word your post. Harassing the people you want to stop harassing others doesn't feel like the right way to go about it. My mom always said "You catch more flies with honey".
Some good points here.
The thing is that this dividing between pro-daap and anti-daap is not beneficial for vaping community and i would hope that at least vaping veterans would acknowledge that simple fact instead of often acting like 15 y/o kid in the front lines aggresively defending their 'knowledge' and their 'truth'. We are on the same boat and our enemy is somewhere else; together we are stronger than divided.
Which comments in that thread were harassing exactly? So me saying that it was gross even after explaining why in another comment was harassing OP?
OP himself mentioned that he had lack of education on the matter.
I wasn't speaking about one particular thread but the trend as a whole. That thread did get my to finally type this post up but it is by no means the sole cause. This has been going on for a while.
Its no different than a couple years ago when someone would mention that they vape DAAP and get hammered by everyone in the comments because the sentiment at that time was that they were bad.
Thankfully that has changed but now a person can't even make a post about it without it devolving into how benign it is.
If someone chooses not to vape those substances then what is wrong with that? Its their choice. You don't have to jump in and tell them how they are wrong and should be doing this and not that especially when one is simply asking for advice on flavorings without those concentrates and not asking for a discussion on the possible dangers of DAAP.