After two years of DIY i'm forced to recognize that i've failed. It's quite easy to get the quality of the basic juices people buy when they start vaping (for example here in France it's typically all what's produced by Gaya), but i don't manage to create juices like those i really enjoy (these times it's Delvin by Halo and White Nectar by Hyprtonic. Actually the best juice i do is some sort of Ruyan 4 so i just add the base to the concentrated blend). I tried hard really but my juices are just not like i would like to. There's always this little thing that misses...
Would you have any advice or secrets to share to help me reaching the next level ?
My stuff (sorry but labels are in french...)
You have some of the main notes and sweeteners, but you're missing the foundations that support a lot of e-liquids: the creams, custards, marshmallows, cookies/biscuits and so forth. Even when those foundations aren't prominent flavours in a recipe, they are often the source of a certain depth and roundness that the fruits, tobaccos, caramels and so forth play off of.
This. I've been mixing for almost 3 years and I have over 100 flavors and I've found that the ones I use most are creams, custards, doughy flavors and menthol. Even in juices that don't seem to call for them they add a lot of depth in small amounts and make good juices great.
Edit: mixing, not missing lol
In addition to sweetener there's ethyl maltol and another for the creamy aspect but the picture doesn't show them well.
Good suggestion, but ethyl maltol is the third bottle from the left in the bottom row.
EDIT: Duh, I thought you were suggesting that the OP (you) pick up some ethyl maltol. That's what you get for answering from the messages page instead of the main thread. We generally treat ethyl maltol as a sweetener up to the point that it becomes a mute for sharp flavours. It may sweeten flavours differently from sucralose (it gets "into" the flavour in a sense rather than being a sweet layer over the flavour), but sweet is its main job.
Yeah i can confirm that creams were the missing pieces. I bought one and prepared two new recipes (now with 10 days steeping) that are not so bad. It's more or less what i already tried but the cream (it's CAP Butter Cream for instance) really changes everything. The other cream stuff i mentioned was actually some Massoia Lactone which was not what i wished at all (it rather add an unwanted acidity).
Still i have to adjust the recipe because the main taste (caramel + hazelnut nuts + a bit of french vanilla) is too damped by the cream.
Once or twice a month my friend comes by and we make juice together. We each bring concentrates. We both have completely different tastes but sometimes we find a winner in the other persons stash. I recently started this Reddit too. Hope that will accelerate the process. In two years though, I would say I only have four true winners. But I also have quite a few recipes that were only so-so and need tinkering. Edit- In a year I expect to double my winners. I think the process will start snowballing.
Your collection looks rather small.
Did you try highest rated recipes of all times on atf?
like that one.
Buy more flavors.
This right here. Judging by the picture you are missing a lot of flavors.
I'm 1.5 years into this journey and I am at around 105 flavors give or take.
Granted I make juice for two friends of mine but I mostly took this fact to justify flavor purchases I would have made without those guys too.
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And I am missing so many flavors, the List is ever growing...
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edit: by "you" I meant OP.
Haha yes. I knew that's what you meant. I have far too many flavors
9 flavorings? No wonder.
You realize that you are limited in potential by the potential of your ingredients, no?
BTW, the labels are unreadable due to the photography, not the language.
There are 16 flavors + 3 additives (sweetener, ethyl maltol and cream).
Cream is usually treated as a flavor, not additive, but... I must've seen a cropped photo or something.
But many of us have well over a hundred flavors. I have maybe twenty different cherry flavors. /u/ID10-T has over a hundred mango flavors. /u/chemicalburnvictim has a couple hundred tobacco flavors. Silky has almost every custard flavor ever. The fact is, while I can create something vapable from a couple handfuls of TFA flavors, if I want something really good, I usually have three or four different flavor houses represented in a recipe... because different individual flavors are better at different things.
If you compare vaping to painting, then you need to have a complete pallet of flavors to work with in order to achieve a real masterpiece. Otherwise, the commercial juices will always be more dynamic and superior. If you can recognize that your juice has not made it to the same level, then you can probably do better.
Hey hey. I can feel you. I had to go through same way. It's not easy to get "the one" liquid. I'm making my own liquid about for 3 or 4 years. And I have to tell you that I still don't have my adv. Don't give up. Keep it going ;) I guess one day you will make a recipe of your adv.
I saw your flavours. Your repertoire is not quite big. You need more single flavours of different producers. I like many stuffs from tpa, cap, flavorart and flavorah. Solub got few good stuffs but I don't like their single flavors. They got some artificial notes which I don't really like.
If you have the basic of your juice then try to work with some additives like sweetener, acid or ws 23. I don't really know which kind of juices you like (fruits or creamy stuff). Give me some Hints. Maybe then I can help you litttle bit.
I completely feel the same way OP except I've been doing this for 3+ years. Just when you think you have some recipes down to a science, over time you realize you don't and wonder what the hell am I doing? I have over 150 flavours to work with and I am still not satisfied with what I can create but a lot of it is my own doing from not doing enough research early on and haphazardly purchasing flavours that are impossible to work with. Figure out what flavour you want to make then focus on getting the best ingredients to make it. Just trying to make an amazing ADV out of what you have on hand, usually doesn't provide the best results. If you want to get better then you just need to keep practicing, studying and experimenting. Best of luck!
So u/LandingMonkey - you mentioned your recipes don't get close to Devlin by Halo? From looking at the concentrates you've got, I can see why not. Straight up Caramel is tough to nail, but the right mix of flavours will get you close.
Single Flavor Testing is tedious but educational. Get some new flavours. Start from the base up. Devlin is described as "a caramel inhale with a smooth butterscotch finish " and reviews mention definite notes of vanilla, nuts and even coconut. I'd wager there's a fairly solid vanilla cream base to support the caramel.
To give you a rough starting point, try something like:
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Base:
CAP Vanilla Custard 1-2%
TFA Whipped Cream 1.5%
FA Cream Fresh 1%
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Supporting accents:
FW Hazelnut 0.5% / FW Pralines & Cream 1%
FA Marshmallow 1%
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Caramel of choice. I'd go with FA / FLV:
FA Caramel / FLV Caramel 1%
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Slight butterscotch note (I'm not personally into it so I'd keep it super-low):
FW Butterscotch Ripple 1-2% / FLV Butterscotch 0.2-0.5%
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Then boost the caramel to taste with either:
FW Salted Caramel 2% or
JF Dulce de Leche 1.5%
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Full recipe might be something like:
|Manufacturer|Flavor|Percentage| |:-|:-|:-| |CAP|Vanilla Custard|1.5%| |TFA|Whipped Cream|1.5%| |FA|Cream Fresh|1%| |FW|Hazelnut|0.5%| |FA|Marshmallow|1%| |FA|Caramel|1%| |FW|Butterscotch Ripple|1%| |FW|Salted Caramel|2%|
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But yeah, to quote most people in this thread - buy more flavours. Even if you just bought the flavours for the base listed above, and mixed with one of the caramels, I'm sure you'd be having a much better time.
Pourquoi ne pas tenter des recettes du net ou de ce sub ou tester des concentrés complexes ? Je vois surtout du mono-arôme sur ta photo et beaucoup de solubarome sont la qualité n'est pas toujours au rendez-vous.
Tu recherches plutôt quoi ?
Well, some people have may not like many recipes, if any, and need to develop their own. I doubt this is the case for the OP, more likely he doesn't want to order from chefsflavours.co.uk (or any other reasonably well stocked vendor) for some reason, and is sticking mostly to what's available from a local shop.
While ejuice creating is so similar to cooking unfortunately in this way it’s different. While I can usually make something edible and at times Great w what I have on hand... it’s not the same w making juice...;)