Simple, or Complex?
Lately I have been trying the "less is more" approach to mixing. It is far too easy to get caught in the "this is close, but it just needs x" trap, and before you know it, you have 10+ ingredients in your recipe, and it is still not right, not any better than before, and quite possibly even worse.
To that end, a couple of recipes I have been working on recently are included below. Most are simplified versions of more complex recipes I previously created. The original recipes tended to use several similar flavors which greatly inflated the ingredient count.
At its most basic, the simplification process consisted of identifying the multiple similar flavors in each "section" of a recipe, figuring out which one or two of them are the most important and best replicate the desired flavors, and adjusting the concentrations to account for the reduced number of flavors.
For example, say you have a cupcake recipe which includes 2% each of CAP Vanilla Cupcake, FW Vanilla Cupcake, CAP Yellow Cake, and FW Cake Batter Dip. All are great flavors, and they do all work together quite nicely. But do you really need all four as your cupcake base? Probably not.
So instead of four different cupcake and cake flavors, you want to try and bring it down to two. It will take some trial and error to work out which two to use and at which concentrations, but in the end, you will want to come out with something along the lines of 4.5% FW Vanilla Cupcake and 3% FW Cake Batter Dip, or 5% CAP Vanilla Cupcake and 2.5% CAP Yellow Cake.
Continuing with the hypothetical cupcake recipe, you will then want to work on the cream / frosting portion. Follow the same procedure, and instead of using relatively low concentrations of 3 – 4 different creams and frostings, replace it with higher concentrations of one or two of them.
On to the recipes!
Fried Twinkie || ---|----: RF Deep Fried Spongecake | 3% FW Creamy Sponge Cake* | 5% TPA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) | 1.25% TPA Whipped Cream | 3% Total Flavor | 12.25% Ingredient Count | 4
*If you do not have FW Creamy Sponge Cake, it can be substituted with FW Cake Batter Dip @ 3.5%. Most of the sponge cake flavor comes from the RF Deep Fried Spongecake here. The FW Creamy Sponge cake is at a pretty high concentration because it is a rather light flavor.
Creamier Brûlée || ---|----: INW Creme Brûlée | 2.5% CAP Vanilla Custard (V1)| 3.5% FA Catalan Cream | 2% TPA Whipped Cream | 2% Total Flavor | 10% Ingredient Count | 5
Vanilla Pudding Pound Cake || ---|----: FLV Vanilla Pudding | 4.25% FLV Pound Cake | 2.25% CAP Sugar Cookie | 1.5% TPA Whipped Cream | 2% Total Flavor | 10% Ingredient Count | 4
Frosted Sponge Cake || ---|----: RF Spongecake (SC) | 3.25% TPA Whipped Cream | 2.25% TPA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) | 1.75% LA Cream Cheese Icing | 2.25% Total Flavor | 9.5% Ingredient Count | 4
Creamy Salted Caramel || ---|----: FW Salted Caramel | 3.5% FW Caramel Candy | 2.25% TPA Bavarian Cream | 2.25% Total Flavor | 8% Ingredient Count | 3
Cake Batter Ice Cream || ---|----: FW Cake Batter Dip | 5% TPA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream | 4% TPA Whipped Cream | 2.5% Total Flavor | 11.5% Ingredient Count | 3
Tropical Taffy || ---|----: RF Watermelon (SC) | 2.25% RF Taffy Base (SC) | 2.25% CAP Sweet Strawberry | 4% TPA Coconut (not Extra) | 3.5% Total Flavor | 12% Ingredient Count | 4
And finally, here are two recipes which I have not had much luck simplifying. The simple version of the first (using just RF Frosted Animal Cookie, LA Cream Cheese Icing, and CAP Sugar Cookie, with each bumped up a bit in concentration) was pretty decent, but definitely a big step down from the original. Each of the ingredients used at 0.5 – 0.75% contributes quite a bit to the overall recipe. Even just using either FA Cookie or INW Biscuit at 0.75 – 1% instead of both, each at 0.5%, makes things not work. This goes to show that sometimes, you just cannot get around a bit of complexity.
Frosted Sugar Cookie || ---|----: RF Frosted Animal Cookie | 2.5% LA Cream Cheese Icing | 2% CAP Sugar Cookie (V1) | 1.25% CAP Vanilla Custard (V1) | 1% FLV Vanilla Pudding | 1% FA Cookie | 0.5% FLV Frosting | 0.75% INW Biscuit | 0.5% TPA Acetyl Pyrazine | 0.5% Total Flavor | 10% Ingredient Count | 9
This next one should have been pretty easy. Baked Alaska is just yellow cake, ice cream, and a bunch of toasted meringue. But simplifying it even just slightly had a huge negative impact. It just needs all of these flavors to work.
Baked Alaska || ---|----: TPA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream | 3.5% FA Meringue | 2% TPA Whipped Cream | 2% CAP Cereal 27 | 1.25 – 1.5%* FW Cake (Yellow) | 1.25% FW Cake Batter Dip | 1.25% FA Nonna's Cake | 1% TPA Marshmallow | 1% FA Vanilla Bourbon | 0.5% (Optional) FLV Crunch Cereal* | 0.25 – 0.5% Total Flavor | 14 – 14.25% Ingredient Count | 9 – 10
*Some people get a nasty flavor from FLV Crunch Cereal which is why it is listed as optional. If you add the FLV Crunch Cereal, use the CAP Cereal 27 at 1.25%. If you don't add it, use the CAP Cereal 27 at 1.5%. This is what provides the "toasted" flavor this dessert is known for. If you don't have either, 0.75% – 1.0% of INW Biscuit and/or using TPA Toasted Marshmallow instead of the regular TPA Marshmallow –might– adequately replicate it, but I have not tried this.
Final Thoughts
Try the recipes, both the simple ones and the not-so-simple ones, and let me know what you think.
What are your thoughts on striving for simplicity? If you have a nice recipe that is pretty complex, do you think it is worth it to attempt to pare back the ingredient count?
If yes, what would be your main reason for doing so? Being able to save money by reducing future flavor orders, quicker mixing, the potential of discovering a recipe that is both simpler and tastier, or something else not mentioned?
From my experience, I definitely find simplification a worthy endeavor, both for quicker mixing and potentially better results. Taking a recipe with a large number of ingredients, working it into a simpler version, and having it come out just as good, and sometimes even better, is great.
In conclusion, if you have not already done so, I highly recommend trying to simplify a few of your recipes with the highest ingredient counts.
I haven't been mixing long (started in February of this year) and I began noticing my simpler recipes were more satisfying. I think complex recipes are a crucial part of experimentation when it comes to DIY e juice, but keeping it simple seems more effective for a satisfying vape IMO. Plus, I noticed complex recipes often produce an unnecessary itch to scratch and can drive someone bonkers.
Agreed 100%. You're lucky to have discovered this so early in your mixing career. Just remember, recipe complexity isn't always a bad thing, and there are some flavor profiles which necessitate a high ingredient count. You just need to learn to discern when this is the case, and you'll be golden.
I think it's a great idea to simplify your recipes, there are some really great 3-4 flavor recipes out there. I think everyone has a few they would like to be able to pare down as they're somewhat bloated.
This may not be the perfect solution for every flavor profile though. Some of the fruits especially require multiple variations from different manufacturers to nail a realistic flavor. In cases like this I really like the adjust flavor percentage tool on elr. It can definitely reduce your recipe cost while maintaining the flavor profile you're after. I've been using this to lighten my recipes as I was a bit heavy handed in my mixing when I developed a few of them.
The vast majority of my recipes (well over 90%) are for bakery / dessert type stuff, but for the few fruity-based recipes I've created, I definitely agree that mixing multiple similar fruit flavors is often needed.
For example, when I'm using strawberry, I usually find myself gravitating towards a mixture of TPA Strawberry (Ripe), TPA Strawberry, and CAP Sweet Strawberry, with the exact ratio used depending on what I want the strawberry to be in the final mix.
This is one of the few areas where simplifying probably isn't nearly as effective.
LA CCI and FLV frosting can be replaced with FW sprinkles IMO, and you can drop the AP completely and just add more FA Cookie. FLV Vanilla Pudding and CAP VC V1 can be replaced with CAP VC V2 at the cost of extra steep time. Finally, I think that INW biscuit can be replaced with TFA Marshmallow, since you already have the AP base, and the only thing that biscuit adds that FA Cookie and CAP Sugar Cookie doesn't is a muddling effect that TFA Marshmallow adds.
I haven't tried FW Sprinkles yet, does it really provide a good frosting type flavor at the right concentration?
CAP VC V2 (or pretty much any of the CAP 'V2', TPA 'DX', or similar lines) just doesn't work well for me. I just seem to be incredibly sensitive to the ingredient(s) they use to replace the "dangerous" ingredients. For me, even using a very small amount, it completely ruins anything it touches. But for someone else, your recommendations for simplifying my Frosted Sugar Cookie recipe might work great, so thanks!
I've recently been trying to get back to 3-4 flavor mixes and I think it's much easier to find success in mixing if you keep it simple. There's less variables to worry about adding offnotes to a mix and often random flavors can clash simply due to their chemical makeup (not so much a clash of the actual flavor profiles, but sometimes the chemistry underlying everything can create notes we don't want in our juice). To minimize risk of throwing a juice/profile out of whack, you need to downsize your recipes sometimes to be honest. Wayne's CAP Van Cupcake flavorbook mix is one of my favorites right now. It's super simple and lets the main concentrate do the work in the mix and it creates a really REALLY thick and warm vanilla cupcake with some icing. It's delicious, and it's only about 6% flavoring spread across 5 concentrates, can even be downsized to 4 with the exclusion of super sweet as I find it's rather cloying sometimes. Plus we all know there's a plethora of strawberry milks out there that are only 2-3 ingredients and it's hard to fuck that kind of mix up. It's usually going to come out good.
That said, there's some mixes like your Baked Alaska that just aren't going to be what you want without 8+ flavors all working together to fill in the gaps.
Definitely going to give some of these simple mixes a try and see how well they turn out, thanks for sharing!
Holy fuck that baked Alaska recipe is a nightmare to read on mobile... can you alter it so the footnote doesn't make the table stretch all the way into the next thread?
I tried to get some thought on this subject a little while ago but it was sort of before the relaxation of rules and sphincters... except I'm a novice mixer and didn't have the experience to make the words like you!
Fair play to you for putting so much thought and experimentation into it.
Sorry about that! Forgot to add an extra line break between the table and the footnote. I fixed that and now the Baked Alaska recipe is readable on my phone. I also realized that I was a bit off on that recipe, the TPA VBIC should be at 3.5%, not 3%. The recipe above has been updated.
Generally the best recipes have 2 or 3 engredients. I don't consider sweetener or koolada/menthol an engredients in this equation. Its really hard to judge a good recipe based on ratings on ELR because for the most part the rating system is a circlejerk of sorts where people seem to be inclined to give recipes a high rating, probably because most people don't have that much experience. Honestly, if a recipe has 5 or more engredients I usually won't bother with it. Only recipe with alot of engredients I found really shine was LOOPER by ANML
Meh. I find simple 3 ingredient recipes can be okay, as in vapeable, but mostly they're a starting point. There's usually something missing. (And if it's a lemonade, my base that I start from is 4 or five concentrates once cooling agents are counted.) Still... trying a 1-2-3 recipe can be quick way to build something that needs just a couple refinements.
I used to think exactly as you, and to a large extent I still do – sometimes simple recipes simply don't do. But over time, I've found that simple recipes, when developed properly, can usually be just as good or even better than something using more ingredients.
Like I stated in my original post, it is very easy to fall into the trap of thinking something is missing, adding an ingredient, thinking something still is missing, adding yet another ingredient, and so on. Once you get up to 8 or 9 ingredients, what's one or two more? Then you might very well end up with a recipe using more than a dozen ingredients, and still something is missing.
When building a recipe, instead of just adding more ingredients, try adjusting the ratios between the existing ingredients, or swapping out one ingredient for a similar flavor. It doesn't really save any time in developing recipes, because tweaking the concentrations and swapping out individual flavors can be just a lengthy ordeal as building a complex recipe.
But the process works, and sometimes you can create an awesome recipe, with a complex flavor profile, while limiting its number of ingredients.
Well, to be honest, if I had /u/chemicalburnvictim's collection of every tobacco flavor ever created, I probably could do just that. Because there's about four or five major flavor types in tobaccos, each with maybe a dozen variations or secondary elements. And then the balance between elements varies from concentrate to concentrate. So yeah, it's conceivable that I could morph a simple three ingredient recipe into something more complex by swapping one flavor for another a couple times... but not having every flavor ever created makes it a bit simpler.to add one or two flavors...