This is part of project I agreed to take on after it was pointed out that so many of the resources in sidebar and wiki are ancient. The idea is, rather than revising them myself, I'd post them here once per week to gather feedback on how to improve them. They belong to all of us, everyone should have a say in what they say.
Last week, we added some common abbreviations to the wiki. Now, lets take another look at the Beginner's Guide, specifically the chapter entitled Mixing That First Bottle. It was written by Botboy three years ago, and while we appreciate the work that went into it, maybe it's a bit dated and in need of some revision or even a complete rewrite?
Here it is in it's entirety:
> Mixing that first bottle... > > Ok, so now all of your supplies have arrived. What's next? > > Recommend first and foremost that you sample ALL of your flavors individually before you start mixing them together. > > To start, we need to mix up your PG and VG base. > > So let's use an example, and while I will walk you through the basic math here, keep in mind that there are calculators for use in the sidebar that will make all of these calculations for you. > > Ok, So you have your PG, VG, Nic and PG based flavors. You decide you want to sample your Capella Sweet Strawberry and need to find the ideal flavor percentage to mix it at. Now, you may have found that already by doing your research ahead of time, but let's just pretend for illustrations sake that you are the first DiY'er in the history of ejuice. > > You have 48mg/ml nicotine in a 100% VG base. You want to make 5ml samples. Let's start by mixing 3 batches, one @ 5% flavor, one @ 10% flavor, one @ 15% flavor. End goal is to have a 50/50 PG/VG juice with 12mg/ml nicotine. > > So let's look at some math. 12mg (goal)/48mg(base) = .25. Now let's multiply that by our batch size of 5 ml. That gives us 1.25ml of our nic base that we will need. So, we load up our 3 bottles with 1.25ml of nicotine via using our 14ga blunt tip needles and either our 1ml or 3ml syringes. > > Next, let's add our flavor. 5%, 10%, and 15%, multiply those percentages (.05, .10, .15 in a basic calculator) by your end goal volume (5ml) and you get the volume of flavor you need per bottle. You should wind up with .25ml, .50ml, and .75ml per bottle. > > So...Your Nicotine base is VG, your flavors are PG based. Now let's figure out where we are at. 5% bottle has 1.25ml VG and .25ml PG. We want a 50/50 split so we need a total of 2.5ml VG and 2.5ml PG. Now all we need to do is add 1.25ml VG and 2.25ml PG to bottle one (5%). We add 1.25ml VG and 2ml PG to bottle 2 (10%). We add 1.25ml VG and 1.75ml PG to bottle 3 (15%). > > Shake them well and voila, we now have 3 juices, one mixed @ 5%, one @ 10% and one @ 15%. Don't forget to label what is what! > > Vape and enjoy. > > Remember to use one of the posted calculators if you are uncomfortable with this math on your own (to be honest, when I started mixing, I preferred to do the math myself versus trying to figure out how to work a calculator, now I never do the math, lol). It will help to lend a better understanding of what you are doing if you do the math via a calculator or by hand rather than using one of the DiY calcs. > > Always remember, safety first!
#Throwback Thursday Question:
How should this be updated for 2018-2019? How would you walk someone though mixing their first bottle?
Hmm yea I feel the whole math part is unnecessary or at least overly complicated. It feels more newbie friendly to have a description of how to use a generic calculator. A picture would be good. Perhaps recommend a simple yet functional calculator and provide a link for it.
As for the examples, it should probably be 10 ml sample sizes and more realistic percentages. Reading this, you may get the impression that 15% CAP Sweet Strawberry is a good idea.
Fixing it may be harder than simply rewriting it, but I can't right now.
To say that most don’t like mixing by volume is an understatement, but I actually like the examples that walk you through the math. I used volume when I first started, and examples that showed the step by step calculations really clarified things, and I found them super helpful. I use weight and online calculators now, but I can still double check the numbers in my head fairly quickly in order to make sure everything looks correct.
Obviously, it should be stressed that mixing by weight is abundantly more convenient, but I think you’d be doing a disservice to new mixers by not providing a breakdown on how we arrive at our numbers.
The math is done by volume no matter what. The weight of VG, nic base, PG, and PG alternatives are all modified by the SG of those. Mixing by weight doesn't change the volumes, it's just a easier way to measure the volumes that doesn't require being a maid.
Yeah, I’m well aware. That’s why I’m saying that I feel as though the explanations involving volume should be kept in place. Some people are content with knowing that something works, while others like to know how it works. Just saying, “mixing by volume sucks why aren’t you using a calculator errmygerddd,” isn’t helpful or very explanatory.
And seeing as how there’s at least one person each week asking how to change the nic content of any given juice, this type of content could prove to be pretty helpful.
Most of those questions are from people scared of math, or challenged by logic. (Otherwise, how hard is the following concept: desired nicotine strength in mg/ml, multiplied by final volume gives total nicotine content; divide total nicotine content by concentration of source nicotine to determine amount of nic source needed... although there's a simpler technique in the case where an existing liquid of known volume and nicotine strength is to be made stronger.)
This isn't quite right.
The technical reason that mixing by weight is superior is that, unlike volume, weight does not change in response to environmental conditions (temperature, pressure, etc.).
It's also happens to be more feasible to measure by weight, especially when dealing volumes at industrial scale.
I would argue that the math should be done by weight, as it is immutable. The reason that we say 10% by volume, for instance, is likely just out of convention.
Due to nicotine strength being measured in mg/ml, and the varying densities of the component parts of juice, the percentages are basically by volume. The VG/PG ratio is also determined by volume. Mixing by weight is simply a way of measuring the volumes which is more convenient and accurate (as measuring in a GC or syringe is flawed by residues left in the measuring device).
Specific gravity is something that's not included as well. Mixing by volume and mixing by weight changed in the diy world around 2014-2015 when folks realized they could use lab equipment to efficiently measure flavors and bases out. It was right around the same time that flavoring companies started coming out with drip caps instead of the screw flat-top bottles. The accuracy of .000001 wasn't the biggest thing, it was the mixing maintenance that went in to
"Should I use up all my pipettes/syringes and measure by volume and flat top bottles or ...ehh, go the easy route and just pop the top and drip drip on the scale?"
It was a mixing convenience, not a math phenomena. At least the general populace agreed so.
This seems a bit specific and the maths seems unnecessary. It might be useful to just replace it with something like, "add your nicotine base to a calculator and start with 3mg for dtl 70/30, 6mg 50/50 for mtl pen devices, ?? for pod systems". Seems like a whole lot of the post can be chopped out with something like that to replace it.
Who mixes 12mg juice? Wouldn't 3mg or 6mg be a little more realistic?
Lots of people used to. The wiki is old. That's why the example has someone mixing up 15% CAP Sweet strawberry at 50/50 VG/PG.
Just tried going back to 50/50 vg pg for my last mix. I'm experimenting to see if it cuts down on steep time any.
I would suggest using a slightly different technique. Read all instructions carefully before starting. Step 1. Mix large batch of unflavored.
Step 2. Mix tester @8% (if TFA, CAP, or FW... 4% otherwise)
Step 3. Use half of tester to make new tester, cutting concentration in half using equal amounts of flavored tester and unflavored. Repeat this step multiple times, REMEMBERING TO LABEL WHICH BOTTLE IS WHICH CONCENTRATION, then test from weakest to strongest.
Step 4. Check to see what level CR suggests you use it at, and mix that concentration to test, ignoring steps 1-3.
edit: added bold for the illiterate
I would add a "Check manufacturers recommended percentage usage" and adjust accordingly. Not sure of any flavor that would be used at 15% these days, that's not a one shot
Websites that use any tracking system for "average % use" will fall into the mass user "melting pot" where the same flavor is being used for different reasons. This will provide a false average because it's being not calculated in the same class mode (categorized in the same flavor profiles).
If some website, regardless of preference, ELR, ATF, 99etc, implemented average % of lets say strawberry, UNDER the following criteria (used in strawberry and cream, NOT in strawberry and kiwi flavors) , it would remove that false average and give you a more accurate % for your research.
Manufacturers suggested percentages are even less useful than average use percentages from ELR.
Agreed. I would have it say to check ATF and the flavour reviews here.
Well its a good starting point for the non-bias person. I mean, any site that has an average function will run into the same "personal preference is always give you funky average prices",
thanks for not suggesting something more constructive though.
There's one thing I can't find. When we are talking about a 50/50 PG/VG is this by weight or by volume? I ask because VG weights quite a lot more than PG and that can make a big difference.
It's by volume even though you (probably should) measure it by weight to mix it. Does that make sense? If I tell any online or downloadable calculator worth using that I want to make 50/50 juice, it will tell me how many milligrams of PG and how many milligrams of VG I need to do that on my scale. If I'm making unflavored juice, there will be a significantly more milligrams of VG because VG is heavier, but an equal amount of both by volume.