Here's a thought. I've been doing research related to keto, artifical sweetners, insulin response, and how they relate. It's known that artifical sweetners in food and drink (aspartame, eryrithyol, xylitol, etc) do cause insulin responses in the body, some (maltrodextrin) being much more serious than others (stevia). Quick fun fact; maltrodextrin has a higher glycemic index impact than actual table sugar! Crazy.
Now consider several studies that state ingesting sweetened things like diet coke or sugar free jello invoke an insulin response in the body (cephalic phase). Sucralose (sweet'n'low) is a known culprit in these responses. Now it's also important to realize that while certain artifical sweetners like aspartame and eryrithyol do not impact blood glucose levels themselves, your brain reacts to things that taste sweet by producing glucose in the bloodstream as a precursor to the anticipated spike in blood sugar levels (i.e. bracing for impact if a deer jumps in front of your car). Your brain and taste receptors don't know that you're ingesting sucralose or aspartame instead of actual sugar.
Point to all of this being that we vape sweet flavors, added sweetners or not. TPA Strawberry and a metric fuck ton of other flavorings already include EM, Sucralose, or stevia (CAP is doing these now iirc). There are several websites and fourms I've found pertaining to diabetes and the relation to blood sugar level impact from vaping sweet flavors, but nothing concrete.
I'm curious if anyone in a sustained state of ketosis has noticed a stall or drop in ketone levels or had any negative impact from sweetened flavors?
Anyways, I don't even know what I'm getting at really but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experiances with what I'm talking about here, especially those of you who are diabetic or on the ketogenic diet.
UV and ECF have several studies done for this, both formal and informal of doctors and diabetes patients who tracked their levels for years while vaping. While our juices may have sweetners, it fails in comparison and is laughable to compare it to..say a cup of coffee or a can of soda. It's been a solid "no, under normal circumstances, will vaping effect diabetes" If you read the discussions of this topic, it's actually a lot of diabetics started vaping to curb flavor cravings
Interesting! You say diabetics receive a medical benefit from vaping? Very interesting indeed. That is the kind of thing that should be pointed out in this flavor battle with the fda. Wonder what other benefits can be found?
I think we should be careful making statements like "diabetics receive a medical benefit from vaping"
There are a lot of variables to consider there.
First it is a question..hence the ?
2nd the same could be said of the whole it's better than smoking. We don't know that. We don't KNOW anything. Except Vapes are tasty..we know that.
But as long as the FDA and big tobac are pushing fake news I elect to push back.
As you were doctor who;)
I wouldn't say its a benefit in the idea of health, but diabetics use it to quit smoking, and I've heard they use it to curb certain flavors that they otherwise wont be able to get.. mostly the type 2 diabetes, (the one that people develop mid-life or etc).
I am Type 1 Diabetic and normally if I have a lot of ketones I can feel it. Usually blood sugar will raise significantly and I will get severe abdominal cramps. I have been vaping for two years now and it has never noticeably changed my blood sugars and the one kenoacidosis event I had was due to taking steroids for an infection. So I would say that it does not affect my ketones levels however I'm not a scientist and could definitely be wrong. Hahaha
Interesting, thank you for your imput. Semi-related note here. Do you notice a sensitivity to VG or PG?
VG sensitivity would be almost unheard of, your body can't produce or use fat otherwise.
The higher fractions of polyethylene glycol (like peg400) should also be relatively inert, mostly due to the fact they are really long polymers that your body can't metabolise at all.
I am type 1 as well, and started vaping about a year before I was diagnosed about 3 years back. I vape almost exclusively sweet flavors as it helps with cravings for sweet food drinks and candy. Vaping has never (at least to my knowledge) had any discernible effect to my blood glucose levels. And as you stated, I am acutely aware of ketone levels also, because of rapid blood glucose level rise and severe abdominal pain. I was recently hospitalized for DKA which was caused by an infection and the antibiotics that followed. All of that is to say I agree that vaping has no effect on blood sugar or ketone levels for me, but that doesn't mean that someone else couldn't have a different experience.
I've been doing keto and have been in ketosis since February, and have noticed nothing. I use about 50% tobacco mixes, 50% Prairie clone. No added sweeteners in what I make, and I couldn't tell you if any concentrates I use have any. My ketone levels leveled out around 6 on my pee test strip chart... I don't know if that is a standardized thing or not so that number might mean nothing to you, but it is smack in the middle of the chart. Hope that helps, feel free to ask any other questions.
Ummm, question: where’d you get a recipe for prairie clone?!!
This might be what you're looking for:
https://alltheflavors.com/recipes/23914
Not sure of the authenticity of the claim, but Dustychonchon in the comments of that recipe said it's the actual recipe released by the creator.
Edit: Reading the notes, I would give the "cook in a magnetic stirrer" step a miss, and just wait for it to steep.
That is definitely something I am interested in as I am also on a Keto Diet. Once I get my Ketone monitor, Ill def double check that.
Please do and let me know
From what I've read it doesn't have much of an effect, the nicotine however is still not good for diabetics. Raising A1C levels 30% over a few months :(
A few people(seems mostly type 2) have complained about headaches possibly coming from the VG, but not so much flavorings or sweeteners. Vaping is still so new there haven't been to many studies, so most of the info is anecdotal posts on forums.
Even with the possible downsides it is still "healthier" than cigarettes, with not doing anything at all being the best bet.
I’m gonna say anyone experiencing headaches are likely experiencing dehydration not realizing it. Just my opinion of course...;)
I really wish we had more information available to us relating to the impacts from VG and PG too, thank you for your imput
PG shouldn't have to much of an effect, unless you have an allergy, but i don't think it would affect blood sugar levels.
VG on the other hand is basically a carb and could have an effect, but I don't think there is enough of it to do anything. 5 mls is only about a teaspoon, even if you drank it straight up instead of vaping I don't think it would rock the boat.
Sweeteners would be my biggest concern, but as far as how much the brain uses taste to dictate it's secretions. . . I'm honestly not 100% sure if that is the sole mechanism for something like that and what other inputs your body uses to work that out. The body is pretty dumb, but there are usually a few redundant systems that work together.
I experienced ketoacidosis (your blood pH goes down to acid and you feel all of your organs dying) for 5 months before I figured out my magnesium was dangerously low. The whole time I was vaping. I don't go crazy with sweeteners, but I'll often dabble in some EM here and there. I wish to christ the vaping had pulled me out of keto, but it never did.
The moral of the story is take magnesium supplements. Modern western diets are often deficient. Millions of people have clinical magnesium deficiencies that can lead to all manner of bad news if one more contributing factor pushes you over the edge.
I need some damn magnesium suppliments
https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Magnesium-Citrate-Milligram-Capsules/dp/B00L9D3JBE/ref=sr_1_8_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1529077735&sr=1-8&keywords=magnesium+citrate it's pretty cheap for solid brands on amazon.
The chelated versions have much higher bioavailability (aka magnesium glycinate). They’re more expensive, but the other ones just function as a laxative for me, no real absorption or therapeutic effects. This is the kind I use: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Z1GLJI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_diajBbZY7DEWK
I am a qualified personal trainer who diets frequently. I have alot of experience with ketogenic diets, and have been vaping for about 3 years. I only use EM and stevia and they do not take me out of ketosis (vaping at about 2% sweetener, 10-15ml in 24 hours.) I have done the piss test multiple times to confirm.
In response to what you said about ingesting things sweetened with artifical sweetener triggering an insulin spike. It differs ALOT person to person. There have been studies done where several people have illicited no response at all, while others ingesting the same product triggered a notable insulin spike.
Ketone evidence in urine iirc changes as the body adapts to ketogenesis. So measurements of ketosis through keytone strips isn’t as accurate a measurement as one might think. At least, I’m assuming, at the level of accuracy required to detect levels of change based on vaping sweeteners.
Hey I can actually help I use Super Sweet at .75% in mixes and have lost over 100lbs on Keto since December!! I don’t know if that helps or not but this subject has really interested me since I started keto!
https://instagram.com/p/Bj82y8wHf2H/
Congratulations on losing a whole me! Jkjk it’s not about me.. that’s quite an accomplishment and it’s making me very curious about this Keto thing and what makes it tick bcuz it’s quite popular and obviously works and I need to know why everything and this is no exception so off I go to read up on this new craze. ( new to me anyway.. only remember seeing it mentioned in maybe the last year or 2 tops) Very well done and good luck on your journey if you’re not done yet!
I have been vaping for 2.5 years and started keto this January (lost 25kgs). Vaping sucralose hasn't any effect on this for me. I also consume stevia and erythritol with my coffee and in many dessert recipes.
Also, there is no need to measure ketone levels. Track your food and stay under 20g of net carbs (Carbs - fiber - polyols/sugar alcohols) and you will be in ketosis.
Been vaping since 09 and on keto for years. Vaping sweet juices has no impact on me. Keep doing what you are doing. If you are losing then you're losing and it's hard to not notice that you're losing (assuming you are doing it for fat loss). Just don't obsess over piss sticks if that's your way of measuring ketones. The absence of excess ketones doesn't mean anything. Chase results not ketones. Vaping sweets does not curb my desire to eat something sweet, but you may notice as time goes on that dessert flavors are oddly delicious even if you didn't like them when you first started.
Xylitol, erythritol and stevia aren't artificial sweeteners.
And Stevia and Erythritol have a glycemic index of 0 and 1 respectively, with net carbs of 5g per 100g for both. Erythritol also does not feed bacteria in the mouth and so, does not cause cavities.
Both are the number one and number two recommended keto sweeteners by multiple keto sites.
To answer OPs question: vaping sweetened juices has had zero impact on ketosis.
Source: been on a keto diet for roughly a decade for medical reasons.
This is all true, but they are not artificial. Xylitol and erythritol are sugar alcohols extracted from plants such as birch or corn. Stevia is also a plant extract.
> your brain reacts to things that taste sweet by producing glucose in the bloodstream as a precursor to the anticipated spike in blood sugar levels
No, it does not. That's not true.
Perhaps I misinterpreted the studies I was reading and assigned a correlation that was not implied. The case I read referred to a impulsive reaction in the brain and pancreas to "brace" for the expected spike in blood sugar levels from the digestion of carbohydrates. According to the study the body slowly increased blood sugar levels in preperation for the sugars so it may avoid negative impact from a sudden and drastic increase in insulin levels.
In my original post I was nearly certain I linked the study to which I was referencing. I'll find the study and link it here, which should have been done in the first place.
Edited for clarity
I thought that was the case for many years too and even talked about it a lot. Until I was in the hospital where my grandma was regularly treated (she had diabetes...very very heavy) and began to talk about it again. Well...then the doc told me that is total bullshit :) He showed me a lot of stuff too, because at first I did not believe him. Sugarfree Sweeteners have no effect on blood sugar levels at all.