This is FAQ Friday #17
This FAQ was supposed to be about the sidebar; how that is going to change with reddit’s “redesign” or “new reddit” and a little about updating the wiki’s with input from the community as to what information is missing or out of date...
Before I get to that, though, I’d like to address the perturbed elephant in the room:
> "I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."
Enforcing community standards has become a game of whack-a-mole, with every other post hitting the front page infringing on one rule or another. I was given a hammer about a month ago and have already whacked my fair share of “low effort” help requests and clone requests as well as a few posts that gave me pause as they straddled the line between shitpost and something that might actually generate an interesting discussion (in spite of the lack of effort on OP’s part)
The problem lies in what is considered “community standards” and how that shapes the rules. Right now the rules leave a lot to be desired and the way they’re being enforced is alienating more people than they’re helping.
Keeping the sub clean has been the mantra for years. And the result has been a quieter and quieter library for DIY where every question is met with a stern hushing. There is a lot of quality content here and with a little effort you can find just about any answer you’re looking for. I think that’s great but at the end of the day this is a forum and you can’t have a forum without discussion.
What is the solution?
Right now it seems /u/EdibleMalfunction & /u/SkiddlzNinja’s idea in “Let’s Fucking Do It” is a good place to start.
I think most, if not all, of the active mods are on board with putting down their hammers and letting the community decide what content lives or dies. You have upvotes, downvotes, and reports at your disposal, so use them as you see fit. In the coming weeks and months we’ll use that information to modify the rules and community standards that will be enforced as we move forward.
The Future of FAQ Friday; ^if ^you’re ^interested.
This really started with “A Year in Reviews” which was my way of highlighting what I think is one of the best things about the sub. And in all the subsequent FAQ’s I have tried to keep it meta by using this sub as the reference for most of the information providing the answers. I think that is how we keep the sub “clean” by upvoting the good stuff and sharing it whenever it’s relevant to the discussions that are happening.
I love this sub and all the new mixers that come here to learn. I didn’t spend all these hours in order to get attention, I did it to highlight good information and create a resource. That’s why I’m willing to hand the reins to anyone who’s willing to do the same thing on any given Friday. PM me if you’re interested…
To that end, I might be taking a break in order to work on updating the wiki and new reddit sidebar.
This is our sidebar right now. It’s a great resource but not all information is timeless and as you can see, I’ve annotated each section with the last time it was updated. It’s getting old and more than a few items in there are in need of a refresh.
- First time here? Please read this first (3 years)
- DIY Beginner’s Guide (3 years)
- Flavors for your first DIY Order (1 year)
- Common Abbreviations (2 years)
- TFA Recipes (3 years)
- Monthly Recipe Threads (6 months)
- Flavor Reviews (25 days)
- Flavor of the Week (2 days)
- Weekly Archive (1 year)
- Botboy141 Guide to Mixing by Weight (3 years)
- Compounds used in DIY (4 years) [deleted]
- Clone Recipe Threads
- Why DIY? (3 years)
- Essential Equipment (3 years)
- Flavors and Additives (3 years)
- First Time DIY Kits (2 years)
- Sites that have all you need but no predefined kit (3 years)
- How to mix your first bottle (3 years)
- How to make e-liquid out of your favorite recipe (3 years)
- Video on getting started (3 years)
- How to mix your first bottle by weight - Boyboy141’s Guide (3 years)
- Simple DIY Example and Price Breakdown (4 years)
- Pro Tips for a Newbie (4 years)
- /u/Sandman0 Beginner’s Guide (3 years)
- /u/Sandman0 Mix by Weight Guide (3 years)
Troubleshooting Harsh Juice (2 years)
“My First Order” Flavors (1 year)
Labeling Solutions (A link to search? Noice!)
The New Sidebar
The biggest difference between the old and new sidebar is mostly aesthetic. It will be made up of “widgets” rather than one continuous sidebar. I’ve moved most of the relevant information from the current sidebar to the new one but will be working on getting the rest over in the next few days.
While I’m doing that I’d like to take into consideration any feedback I get here as to what is currently missing or antiquated.
The Wiki/Beginner’s Guide/FAQ
If you’re new, most of the information you need to get started can be found in the beginner’s guide. But sections like Flavors and Additives and First Time DiY Kits leave a lot to be desired. While a lot of the information is still as relevant as that day it was written, a lot of the links and references are broken and out of date.
Verified Vendors
Due to reddit policy changes and worries over the sub being in compliance the list of verified vendors is currently hidden. And due to the process involved in getting new vendors on the list several vendors worth using aren’t even included while some vendors that are included have very little to do with DIY.
I plan to reboot the verified vendors list but without all the same restrictions and with a lot more input from the community as a whole. It’s important (at least to me) that the list reflect the vendors we all want to support more so than a list of vendors willing to go through the steps to be considered “verified”
And finally; FAQ Friday has an official Wiki page
Given reddit limiting stickied threads to two, just a thought... one full of links to all the info that should render zero effort posts pointless, the other full of links to all the 'important' threads. (FotW, clone request, what are you vaping, clone challenge, monthly recipe, beginner questions, suggest a recipe, faq friday)
You read my mind.
I’ve also always wondered why we don’t have those and other links in the weekly threads themselves. Links to at least the previous week and other related resources. I think it’s the limitations of automod, but I haven’t really messed around to see what those are.
Well, the info link sticky would only need to be posted once, and only updated if any of the links get relocated.
Automatically generating a constantly changing list of links would probably be tough. It's possible that if all of them were posted by auotmod, a list of links could be easily generated... I suppose if there were specific names that each thread always used a simple enough script could generate a link post that one of the mods could post...
I get what you’re sayin’
I was thinking more along the lines of a “general discussion” thread that gets posted and stickied weekly/monthly that has all the info copied over each time. It can serve as a sort of catch all for new mixers and/or whatever else people feel like posting “hooray I mixed my first bottle” or even “check out my massive flavor order” hand checks. Free for all.
Could be fun, could be terrible. Probably a bit of both. Worth a try?
I think my idea from InTheMix yesterday was the best solution. Let's get rid of the new mixer's questions thread. It worked wonders and did its job when the sub was active, and a beginner question seemed to throw a wrench into the flow of the front page. Now, however, it's the only thing that people in this sub are confident using. Allow beginner questions to flood the subreddit again. Sure, we'll get some stupid, repetitive questions, but the search results are all old as fuck and outdated now, they need to be refreshed.
Perhaps getting rid of it entirely isn't the best solution, but it needs to be a feature, not the main event.
Also, I'm glad that we're discussing these things with the community instead of just mod mail, we've shown time and again that what we think works best for this subreddit doesn't always work in practice.
I think it might be best to keep it but not have it as one of the sticky posts. That way people who are just not comfortable making a post can still have a place to get help. And it will free up a sticky for something like FOTW or some other post/resource that should be highlighted.
I think a sticky for the clone request would be best. It only gets posted once a month, and I would guess most new people will come here wanting to clone their favorite juice. I know I personally never look at the clone request thread after a couple days and it’s moved down the line.
Let it be like a skimmer.. So that at the very least folks will see that as the spot to best ask things that y'all might've seen 1000 times, but the key (As with all forums) is that people aren't made to feel like assholes in any given thread and redirected as if it was a phone support line at a bank.
Just for fun I read a little of the beginner's guide just now. It is sorely in need of updating. So is a ton of other things in the sidebar/wiki.
What do you think about, instead of taking volunteers to rewrite parts of it, we do something like "Throwback Thursday" where we repost the content from various chapters and have the community decide what to remove, add, and change? That way it becomes everyone's sidebar/wiki/beginner's guide.
That sounds like a great idea. I think the key to making that work is finding a way to get the newest people here involved because they're more likely to notice what's missing and what needs needs a better explanation.
I'll start posting them and be sure to invite the newest people to offer their perspectives, then revising the wiki based on any feedback. Will you have to go back and copy the revised stuff over again for the reddit ~~update~~ downgrade?
To any of the lurkers or people who haven't started mixing yet please feel free to comment here or even PM me if you have any suggestions for what would make it easier to help get you started. Any questions you don't see the answer to? Anything that seems confusing? I'll find the answer and make sure it's available to everyone else too.
I mixed my first batch on August 23, 2016 and I’ve since mixed a total of 12960mL, 8830mL of which has been or is for myself. Mixing my own has cut my liquids cost in half while I also mix for two others at no cost to them. This sub is the most important resource I’ve had along the way and especially when getting started. I think the information here is good and well organized. I visit here daily.
That said, I think this is only my third comment on this sub. I don’t have any ingenious suggestions for the future and direction of this place but I’d be at a big loss without it. I was watching closely when the admins nuked /r/DIY_Classifieds. Pardon my silence but I owe many of the users here a lot of thanks.
Sorry for the wall of text below and if I sound really ignorant as I’m very new. I really respect and appreciate how you guys are trying to make the sub more welcoming and accommodating.
I’m thinking about making my first diy order and since the shipping cost is pretty hefty (not based in the US) I’m trying to select my flavors very carefully.
There’s so much great information here but many posts are pretty old and since there are updates to the formula and newer additions to the market I’ve found it pretty hard to find the information I need, like how does XX watermelon compare with NN watermelon and NN watermelon v2/rf/dx and if one could be a good substitute for another since some of the most highly recommended ones are flammable and thus cannot be shipped by air. I’d have to dig through the comment section, switching between sorting the search results by relevance and date. Will be nice if we can somehow add these info from various comments into flavor megathreads.
Also I think it’d be great if the “my first order” flavors could be sorted in different profiles (a lot of them are creamy or grain dessert profiles which I’m not a big fan of, I prefer fruity) and with some explanations like “this cream works well to bind dessert flavors and also to lower the harshness of citrus fruits, so it’s good for both dessert and fruity vapes.”
No need to apologize, I'm more than happy to get your perspective on things. I think a lot of us take accessibility for granted when making flavor suggestions, so I can only imagine how annoying it is for you to see so many flavors being talked about only to be left wondering which ones are really worth your time and investment to get.
The best thing we have right now to get the comparisons you're looking for is Flavor of the Week or the Noted podcasts where the three hosts and the occasional guest run through the various flavors in a particular category. They'll usually all offer up an opinion on each and then highlight the differences between them and how they each work in recipes.
You can also check out the reviews which will usually have suggestions on where the flavor might fit best or what it will pair well with.
"My first order" is a hard one because it reflects votes, so it's based on popularity and creams, custards, desserts, etc are pretty popular in general (just ask /u/juthinc)
Those are great suggestions. Thank you for your reply. I usually started with FotW but found that some of the information I was trying to find (especially for substitution) were under threads for different flavors and thought it’ll be nice to aggregate them. I’ll definitely check out the Noted podcast!
The best approach for you depends a lot... You should check this sub and ATF for recipes that appeal to you. If you don't find any, that's a issue that can be addressed later. Otherwise, copy every recipe you like the sound of. Preferably type them into a spreadsheet. Save a copy before doing anything else. Then sort based on flavor house, then flavor name. This should group repeats together. Get a count of the most common flavors in those recipes. Pick the ten or fl twenty most commonly used. Then go to atf and create a flavor stash of all of those, then search for what you can make... as long as there's a handful of recipes that look appealing, you have your order. (Note: insane shipping costs are common where I am. The best approach... buy large orders. Typically shipping costs are flat rate, if you defray the cost over a large order, you don't pay so much per flavor... and you may want to consider buying from chefsflavours.co.uk or direct from Inawera. Try not to order from the US suppliers, they're great for buying from if you're in the US but they fuck over international customers... shipping UPS or FedEx only, shit like that. They aren't all that bad, but... and most will eat the cost of shipping on domestic orders, but won't even discount international shipping...
That’s a great idea. I’ve copied and pasted the recipes into a note taking app for the time being. I only get around 3 recipes on atf haha so I’m mostly confused about flavor substitutions for one or two flavors in a recipe...
Thank you so much for the suggestions. I did look into some UK vendors but ordering in USD is still a bit cheaper for a big order because of the exchange rates. I think I’ll make my 2nd order from chefs vapors though, since they have some flavors that nicotine river doesn’t.
Yeah.. references to mixing by volume (other than "don't waste your time" should be removed.) There's a few other updates that would be useful. Like several times recently, people have asked for definitions of TLAs not listed in the common abbreviation list (NET, SFT).
Could we get a weekly/monthly thread which spotlights a mixer? I'd love to read about the backgrounds of some people here, how they got in to it, if/how they make a living from it. AMA /u/ID10-T or /u/skiddlzninja type of thing.
/u/ID10-T is lying, /u/enyawreklaw did a spotlight on him over on DIYorDIE
It's funny you mention /u/enyawreklaw, it was his interview with the guy from flavorah (?) that made me think of it. I found it fascinating to hear about his side and view of the industry, and how he views us mixers. I think it would be great to have something like that here. Wayne seems to be good at engaging people so we should be taking some tips/advice from him.
How long of a repeat loop? I mean, after skiddlz and CBV and CR we'd start running out of interesting mixers... I suppose we could probably attempt a seance for a NCM spotlight, and there's always the chance of /u/abdada actually going for it, but is there really enough mixers to spotlight to fill a whole year?
Yeah that's true, could be quite a short series. I suppose it wouldn't have to be limited to mixers, doesn't one of the flavour companies post here, flavorah is it?
Suppose there's Wayne, Shyndo, mlnikon, folkart, you.
Dunno, just an idea.
organization is a problem for any subreddit with a large user base that hosts information.literally the same shit different context. i.e. r/ableton screaming at ppl to use the user feedback thread/wkly threads
's whatever. however am an apathetic and lazy mixer. and yas i realize you dont think you know me gg internets
back on topic: if the spam gets too much just sticky the good threads that get flooded for a cpl days. complete 180 but idgaf. i for one welcome our new shitposting overlords :P
I think what is sorely needed in the sidebar/stickies is a TL;DR quick guide to mixing as the very first thing they see. If you find vaping and DIY fascinating, you might not mind spending hours reading the guides, but I suspect a lot of people who come here for the first time are too impatient for that and just want a brief explanation to see if mixing is even something they want to try.
I think I know of someone qualified for the job. I'll just page them an see if they're down to write it...
/u/leapinglabrats
=) I'm up for it, a bit busy atm but I'll start pondering a draft.
What's so hard about:
- Select and buy flavors.
- Buy scale, bottles, nic, VG, and PG (or PG alternative)
- Put empty bottle on scale.
- Fill bottle with appropriate weights of ingredients.
- Place bottle in cool dark place for appropriate time.
- Try vaping it.
Each of those steps could be made into a link to a short article... but that's pretty much how to mix in tl;dr form.
I know this is close to necroposting, but...
Could we somewhere include a comment such as "If you want to vape 3mg/ml, your nic source must exceed 3mg/ml if you want to use any flavoring." Or something like that? Every week I see people make that mistake, and either ask how to mix to get a higher nic concentration than is physically possible, or how to adjust a VG ratio in a way that can't be done, or some such. I'm not sure where it belongs (maybe in the discussion of calculators? Taking the 'math is hard' angle with it) but it certainly is a common mistake.
Actually, a "common mistakes" post might not be a bad idea. Could cover mixing by volume, math fails like above, buying horrendous flavors based on name, etc.
I've actually received a few PM's suggesting what amounts to a "common mistakes" post for FAQ Friday. I'd be happy to "let" you write it, if you're interested.
Obviously you're not incredibly concerned with how people around her perceive you but I get the impression you have more than a few insights up your sleeve that could be useful in the right context. If you decide to take that on just PM a link to the google doc (or whatever) before Friday and I'll have a look. If not I'll keep it in the queue and try to find a way to fit it into the beginners guide at some point.