Yesterday, San Francisco successfully voted to ban the sales of flavored tobacco products, including vape juice.
The measure passed 68% 'yes' to 31% 'no'.
This is the first such ban in the country.
I don't see any information yet about when / how it will be implemented.
Rules say no link posts, but you can find plenty of articles on various news sites.
The sad thing is this passed with propaganda and straight up lies behind it. "Think of the children" has to be one of the most effective lines when it comes to infringing on your life and freedom. Years and years of prohibition has shown these people nothing. If you want something illegal you can find it if you look hard enough.
But I'd bet you can still get birthday cake flavored vodka in the grocery stores.
Afuckingmen! It’s all and I know everyone already knows it ( duh lol), but it’s BIg T and Big Ph and they do some down right dirty and foul shit especially in California.. it’s hard to fathom the undeniable power they have in don’t get me started, but let’s talk USA and California for now. It’s mind bending and makes me ill... for example ... Maybe a year and a half possibly even 2 yrs ago but I don’t think quite that long ago they ( Big T and/ or Big Ph I don’t see much diff in the 2) turned what was once and rightly so to knowingly pass someone else the AIDS virus from a felony to a misdefuckingmeanor! Thats a crime in itself if u ask me. I really don’t know how these ppl sleep at night. Oh yeah demons don’t need sleep duh...When the regulations weren’t going their way they said FU! Ppl won’t die as much vaping as smoking so to make up for it we need more ppl w AIDS to buy our medicine because let’s face it, if it’s a felony and attempted murder then that’s a real deterrent, but a slap on the wrist misdemeanor fucking fine who gives a shit ? If Flavored alcohol isn’t more appealing to children I’m a monkeys fucking uncle but ignore that FDA fucktards!,
I guarantee they got paid off by some industry that stands to benefit from a ban like this. Perhaps tobacco, I’m not sure. Someone lobbied them aka legal bribes.
Big tobacco fought against it. They're no longer allowed to sell menthols because it's flavored tobacco
Probably, but if that's true this kind of nonsense just delays the inevitable though; the death of big tobacco.
Big companies that lobby for laws rarely think beyond the next quarter’s profits. It’s sick that fellow Americans want to destroy our freedoms to make a tiny percent profit. Vapers are such a small minority too that they’ll get away with it. I mix my own shit, this could very well never effect me, but it’s disgusting never the less.
Did you actually read anything on it or are you just reacting to the headline?
Because they clearly mentioned this was included to ban those juice makers who used juice box packages or ones that look like candy.
That’s not what we are about at all in DIY. Screw those irresponsible 10000% markup gimmick corporations ruining it for the rest.
I did actually read up on it and not a single article I read said anything about what you just mentioned.
So i don't know what you're reading that "clearly says" it only targets fancy labels. I even just googled to check that and the first 5 websites i clicked on said nothing of this sort.
> I did actually read up on it and not a single article I read said anything about what you just mentioned.
Well that’s been the headlines for the past two days with photos of the offending packages so I am shocked you missed it.
Sounds to me like a whole lot of new people are going to start DIY. It's not like the city can stop companies mailing the stuff.
Yet they let people smoke joints anywhere. That’s burning leaves!
And flavored weed pens are fine? Huh.
Don't give them any more ideas...
Ha. Never.
That reminds me of a story I heard where someone was at one of the main venues there (I wanna say Great American Music Hall?) a few years ago before everywhere but Asia had banned smoking but San Fran had.
A security guard walked up to someone smoking a joint ready to throw them out and then apologized because they thought it was a cigarette and went away.
Pretty sure with the wording of the law being tobacco products and the deeming regulations definitions of what a tobacco product entails, just like zero Nic is a tobacco product, so is the weed vapes if they have PG or VG in them. Which I don't think most dry herb vaporizer would be flavored.
So yes, flavored weed vapes are out too, as are menthol cigarettes.
Step 1: sell flavor
Step 2: sell base
Step 3: sell nic
Step 4: profit (fuck you San Francisco, we aren't selling a "flavored tobacco product")
In all seriousness, it sounds like there's not many DIY people who will be affected by this. Is there something I'm missing in your post that's going to stop San Fransisco residents from making their own juice?
Also, a dot gov sort of link to the legal documents explaining the law, or even an article might be helpful to understand the severity and legality of the situation you're describing.
I think I read they were doing something like this in england. They limited the amount of nic allowed or something so they sold packs with a nicotine booster.
Not sure what they are doing with their new laws the TPD or whatever it's called seems pretty crazy. 10ml bottles only, 2 mg nic max, lots of unhappy brits.
Brit here. 20mg nic is the max and bottles containing nicotine must be 10ml or less.
What vendors do is sell 50ml of 0mg juice in a 70ml bottle and a 10ml bottle of 18mg nic, mix them together yourself and its perfectly legal.
No ones really unhappy about it. It allows for 1.5mg juice which is something that was really hard to find before
Although this doesn’t seem to really affect us DIY’ers, I don’t like this one bit. Feels like a giant step back for the vape community in general.
I’m so glad I went diy and now made a promise to myself to go full tilt this year. It’s a pain in the ass when I don’t have time and a joy and a half when I do. So beyond hopeless in America. I went to the sex shop today to get some female condoms to find out they are no longer allowed to be sold without a prescription. Wow. Wtf America?
Wait, for real on the condoms thing? How do they validate that one?
I have no idea apparently you can buy them online from one vendor alone so I don’t know what the deal is. Maybe they’ve got them subsidized or something. Honestly, who knows?
Is there anything in the law that would stop a B&M store from selling unflavored base in one bottle packaged with a flavor concentrate in a second bottle that the consumer could mix together at home? Like Vapewild’s DIY kit?
Yes there is, they used the words tobacco products, and the FDA deeming language covers exactly what you are describing as tobacco products. Them being carried in the same store was the nicotine is enough to get them covered.
Not if the flavors are marketed as something else. It’s a stupid game, but as long as the shop isn’t telling people to combine them and the marketing makes no mention of vaping it’ll be a tough sell in court for the prosecutor.
This shop had to replace lost revenue from flavored eliquid because unflavored is less profit, so we decided to start carrying water flavorings because our market research shows people who liked flavored eliquid also like flavored waters.
Just like “tobacco water pipes” in head shops for the last 40-50 years.
It’s retarded, but then so is prohibition.
Edit: Capella’s was initially marketed only as water flavorings, so there is precedent for this avenue.
I came back to two messages in my inbox, yours, and a reply in another thread where they're convinced the determining factor is whether the nicotine is from tobacco plants.
Look at what happens to shops with those "tobacco pipes" that have high times posters up. See what happens if you say the word Marijuana in one of those shops.
If you have anything related to vaping in the shop then anything that can be used for vaping will be construed as being for vaping regardless of what wording is chosen for labeling. It says so in black and white in the deeming regulation.
Can't you just drive outside the city limits and buy your juice. Also there is still the mail so what are they achieving by a baning flavors. Same goes for menthol smokes you are not going to stop people from doing it. Probably just going to put a bunch of people out of work.
So the homeless can shit on the street and leave heroin everywhere but people can't have flavored eliquid to help them stop smoking... wtf
If people are able to successfully quit smoking with a high percentage doing so, governments lose tax revenues... big pharmacy loses the lucrative (and largely useless) smoking cessation drug market... big tobacco loses sales...
...
...and big anti-smoking loses funding and all those cushy administrative jobs in those NGOs disappear.
The question for us is, would nicotine be considered a tobacco product? Are there uses for nicotine in this form outside the vaping industry?
Manufacturers could start extracting nic from other plants, like tomatoes and sell that. Boom, no longer a tobacco product.
a. Already being done.
b. Doesn't matter, even 0mg ejuice is classed as a 'tobacco product' by FDA regulations. Also your mod and atty (which normally don't contain tobacco or nicotine, by themselves) were also deemed to be tobacco products, by the same ~~mindless fucktards~~ uh... bureaucrats.
Primary target was menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars. If it weren't for stupid FDA rulings (in turn brought on by stupid marketing types using the term 'e-cigarette' without thinking about possible negative results - as in being grouped with cigarettes in the minds (or what passes for such) of politicians...) vaping likely wouldn't have been affected. And for those who were discussing weed juices... just because ejuice is 0mg does not exempt it from being considered a 'tobacco product' under FDA rules. Unless the rules have been completely revised... mod, atty, and juice are all considered a 'tobacco product' by the FDA. The regulations specified that nicotine was not required to be present for something to be considered tobacco. So the Bros over in /r/vaporents are consuming a 'tobacco product' as they blaze. So Hash Brownie juice is (or technically should be) just as illegal in San Francisco as Juul pods.
I don't think the primary target was menthol smokes and flavored cigarillos. There's been a MASSIVE ad campaign against flavored "tobacco" where they're specifically targeting vaping and ejuice on tv and radio. It's actually a little fishy how little they've mentioned cigarettes or cigars in all of this.
New York State is in the process of trying this now, it got out of committee and is going to the Senate Floor
CASAA is fighting it and it's getting good publicity in NY so hopefully we can beat it, but this is why i switched to DIY.
NY's proposal is even more draconic, i.e. no distribution to the State via internet sales
I'm not sure how they plan to enforce that last one. Yes, they could probably get banks to refuse to issue payments to vaping commerce sites, if they gave a comet list of such... but considering prepaid visa gift cards exist, I can think of ways around that. As long as some.company has a name innocuous enough that there's no reason to suspect.vaping is involved, and the packaging is totally plain? How can it be stopped?
By opening packages?
Letter mail requires a warrant to open because it's private communications, packages do NOT, and are subject to search at any time. Same way it works in all the countries that ban importation. X-ray en masse, open anything suspicious, fine and rake cash in.
But vape juice isn't even a tobacco product!!?? I'm livid.