In this subreddit mixing by weight is evangelised almost as much as the sidebar. I’ll try to do two things in this write up that I’m guaranteed to fail at: Try to remain impartial and try not to rehash too much of Botboy’s Guide to Mixing By Weight.
But here’s the problem; Mixing by weight is not intuitive, volume is. Hell, even mixing by drops is more intuitive than mixing by weight. And what I mean by intuitive is that when you think of liquids you don’t think of weight, you naturally think of volume. It makes sense that people would follow their intuitions, but there’s another way...
In fact, there are at least two ways of mixing by weight: There is the one that makes people think it’s overly complicated and confusing (the only one I’ve seen people gripe about) and the very simple way that most people do it. I say most people because I know a lot of DIY’ers and know very few that take the complicated route. What route is that? Specific Gravities for every flavor.
Allow me to climb up on my soap box for a second: If you’re using SG and sharing your recipes with the public STOP IT or, more reasonably, please share that information in the description. Because the rest of us, the majority, the lazy consensus, just use 1:1. While there is variance in flavor density, the difference is nominal and makes absolutely no difference when everyone agrees to use 1:1. If I mix a recipe that way and share it, the only way you won’t have the same results is if you use SG. If you mix a recipe with SG the only way anyone will have the same results is if they use the same SG that you’re using. And depending on where you find your SG, or how you go about measuring it yourself, there will be variations.
Stepping down now, feel free to tear apart my argument.
But before you do, let me illustrate the numbers and see how close we get to being 100% accurate using 1g = 1ml
Let’s use Mother of Dragons’ Milk as an example to see how using or not using SG affects the outcome as you scale a recipe.
30ml
Flavor | % | grams | SG ---|---|---|--- TFA Bavarian Cream | 2 | 0.60 | 0.64 TFA Dragonfruit | 7 | 2.10 | 2.15 TFA Strawberry (Ripe) | 2 | 0.60 | 0.62 TFA Vanilla Swirl | 2 | 0.60 | 0.63 Totals | 13 | 3.9 | 4.04
As you can see, the total flavoring you would add for a 30ml would be 3.9g vs the SG total of 4.04. i.e. 3.9g is 96.53% accurate.
120ml
Flavor | % | grams | SG ---|---|---|--- TFA Bavarian Cream | 2 | 2.4 | 2.56 TFA Dragonfruit | 7 | 8.4 | 8.6 TFA Strawberry (Ripe) | 2 | 2.4 | 2.49 TFA Vanilla Swirl | 2 | 2.4 | 2.52 Totals | 13 | 15.6 | 16.17
96.47% accurate
240ml
Flavor | % | grams | SG ---|---|---|--- TFA Bavarian Cream | 2 | 4.8 | 5.13 TFA Dragonfruit | 7 | 16.8 | 17.2 TFA Strawberry (Ripe) | 2 | 4.8 | 4.98 TFA Vanilla Swirl | 2 | 4.8 | 5.04 Totals | 13 | 31.2 | 32.35
96.44% accurate
Accuracy
As you can see from the example of scaling a recipe up without SG you’ll get about 3-3.5% from 100% accuracy until you get over 500ml. A nice compromise between the SG fanatics and the lazy “one to one” approach is considering all your flavors to be the same weight as PG, but the difference is nominal and I’m personally ok with an accuracy score of 97%.
But what about volume? There are a lot of things I could criticize about mixing by volume (I’ll get to those) but accuracy is not one of them. Even if you’re really good at reading the meniscus on a syringe, and have accounted for the variation in volume due to temperature it’s likely that you’re still not going to hit 100% accuracy but it’s entirely plausible that you’ll be closer.
Regardless of which method you choose, consistency is key. This is why #teamsyringe and #teamscale can both unite against those who mix by drops.
Workflow
I started mixing by weight in 2015 and it was around 2011 that I bought my first DIY supplies. I spent a shamefully long time, starting out, eyeballing my mixes and occasionally counting the drops in order to be “more accurate” when writing down my terrible recipes. All this is to say I have a decent amount of experience mixing by volume and weight. The key difference, at least for me, was how it changed the way I approached mixing. Before mixing by weight I still enjoyed sitting down to mix but there was an aspect of it that seemed like a chore.
For example, when mixing by volume I’d see the latest hyped 8-10 ingredient recipe and, of course, feel compelled to mix it up. Grab a bottle, collect up all the necessary flavors (minus the one to five I’m missing) and then set my syringes out. After that I would take all the bottles that had tips (most of them) and pry those bastards off so I could get my syringe in there. One syringe for each flavor or a little cup of water to clear the syringe out after each flavor and I’m on my way. After all the flavors were added I would grab a syringe for PG, add that and then use it for the nicotine. Then, finally, move on to the dreaded process of sucking up VG into a syringe (eventually settling for less accuracy and just pouring that viscous nonsense straight into the bottle) And after all of that I would bring all my used syringes to the kitchen and clean them up, being careful not to rub the markings off.
But then, after discovering mixing by weight: Grab a bottle, set it on the scale, and gather the necessary flavors. Add flavor 1, tare, add flavor two, tare, etc. Add PG, VG, and nic into the bottle, taring after each and then cap it. Done. Nothing left to clean, no tips to snap back on the flavoring bottles. Faster, cleaner and more fun.
^How’s ^that ^for ^unbiased?
Ultimately it boils down to personal preference. I haven’t seen very many “I mix by volume and I think mixing by weight is pointless” counter arguments and definitely haven’t found a compelling reason to switch back. But I have seen a few reasons that keep people mixing by volume like:
- Large batches
- Small variety of mixes
- Habit
- Add yours in the comments...
If you’re mixing by the liter or more, first of all, this entire write up isn’t for you and second, keep doing what works for you. Keep doing what works either way, it’s entirely subjective and while I won’t stop evangelizing for the scale, I don’t actually care if I convert the masses.
Previous FAQ Friday topics that may be of interest
I've crossposted these to a minimalist blog setup on http://FAQFriday.com. It's just a way to keep them all together and updated while allowing me to host some tangential information and smaller topics than would warrant a post here. Also, eventually, a place to host topics that might not be allowed here anymore.
So yer saying use ml basically
I read it more as:
- Volume = Good.
- Weight = Usually better. Generally easier for smaller batches.
- Weight (SG) = Stupid and annoying.
- Drops = Inconsistent and tedious.
TL;DR - Do what works for you, but be consistent.
Where do you even get the SG of the flavors? Do the manufacturers make that data available?
Several people have spent time putting together spreadsheets and ELR has the option to enable manufacturers SG presumably taken directly from the flavors MSDS. I considered linking some of the spreadsheets but didn't want to encourage that nonsense. ATF defaults to 1:1 (water) but has the option to set the density to PG or VG and allows you to edit your own density on each of the flavors in your stash.
I use 1:1 and tend to mix in 500mL batches but I'm planning to make a few 1 liter batches in glass jars for a few of my custards. Should I use SG for these batches?
Math is not my strong suit but extrapolating from the above recipe, scaled to 1 liter it still holds at 96.445% so as long as the contents of that liter are homogenized, it shouldn't make much of a difference.
Under flavoring is typically less of a concern than over flavoring, IME. You could always experiment with a small batch mixed with SG to see if you can perceive the difference.
Personally I wouldn't bother. Just be consistent with all of your batches. If you really want to get technical I believe the weight of PG is actually 1.038g per 1ml :) The calculator I use has an inventory feature where you can specify the weight of each flavor but I just use 1.038g.
Fuck you, I've saved this for reading later. I'm drunk and can't process all of this now. I'm about to drop $100 bucks on flavors and equipment and you got my head rattled, this is good info
*edit- what is SG?
also, forgive me... I'm new and hate wasting money on my new hobby. I want to be informed
I'll save you the time, buy yourself a scale and mix by weight. IMHO it's infinitely more convenient to just squirt the flavors into a bottle on a scale than use a myriad syringes/tips and deal with the cleanup. Protip: put your VG and PG into large condiment bottles for easy squirting.
SG is specific gravity, which is taking into account the actual weight of your individual flavors. Technically each flavor may have a different weight in grams per 1ml but it's totally safe to assume that 1ml of flavor is 1g. Technically technically I believe that PG is actually 1.038g per 1ml ;)
thank you so much! I've already purchased everything and all align with what you recommended. I have a super nice scale that measures to the thousandths but is limited to 20 gm. I can make it work though since I'm mixing for two others with different nic needs
I think I know which "jewel" scale you're talking about but you'll quickly max it out when you take into account the weight of an empty, even when you tare it.
Whichever scale you end up getting just make sure it plugs into a wall or if battery powered does NOT auto shut-off. Nothing worse then getting half-way through adding a flavor and the scale shuts off.
SG is Specific Gravity. In this context I'm referring to the weight of the flavors, per ml. Any of the recommended recipe calculators will give you the option to use SG on your flavors, but typically default to 1:1. They do however adjust the SG of your bases (VG/PG/Nic) automatically because the difference is more consistent and, in the case of VG, more significant.
I honestly had no idea how people mixed by weight until this post. I completely forgot about the tare function, so i assumed there was a bunch of math involved. I'm definitely gonna try out mixing by weight later.
Thankfully there's no math involved. As long as you're using any of the recipe calculators in the sidebar it's just a matter of adding the weight it shows you next to each ingredient. ATF even let's you check them off as you go. Super easy.