So after my first round of DIY juice i was stoked. Saved me a shit ton of cash, it was fun to do and gave me another hobby.
After that first batch as a shake n vape i was some what impressed but not completely. They smelled AMAZING but had zero flavor. I got sad. I got MAD. I researched for days about lost flavor juice, no flavor juice, why the fuck does this not taste as good as the premium juice. Google search after google search.
I thought i needed sweetener. I thought i needed FA marshmello. I thought i needed something and i was getting fed up. I bought another 60ml of premium juice and just about called it quits.
Fast forward almost a month later. I have my stupid, tasteless juice sitting in my RV kitchen table. I stare at them. "You pieces of shit! I hate you!" I clean my coils and rewick my lovely griffin 25. I say "fuck it, let's see if you still suck juice".
I load in my diy caramel cream. Prime coils and fill her up. I step outside and take a nice long hit. Then my brain exploded.....
HOLY FLAVOR BOMB! My juice has come to life! The sun shines brighter and the world is a happy place once again! It is better than the premium i was just vaping. I am happy. I am proud. I am a diy vaper!!!
TL:DR Steep your juice for a month and you will love your diy juice.
Thanks for reading!
It can go the opposite way too. A S&V can be tasty as fuck but 2 days later one of the flavors has mostly dissipated.
Definitely true. I've been experimenting with what I've been calling staged mixing or staggered mixing and its been going well so far.
I got tired of some stuff fading before the others have had time to develop which so took an different, at least to me, approach. Basically I make an unfinished mix usually with components that require a long steep time, steep it for X amount of time, and then finish the mix with the flavors that don't need as long and either S&V or steep a bit longer.
So say you have a few components that need 4 weeks to hit their peak and others that only need one or two. I will steep mix A for 2-3 weeks, add the missing components, steep for another 1-2, and it ends up with both being just right.
Correct me if I'm off as I'm fairly new to DIY but read many experienced mixers say it's not particularly useful to pre-mix a single flavor since it's the interactions with other flavors (not the base solution) that require the most time. So for example a flavor in one recipe can be a S&V but can take a week to peak in another and a month to peak in another. Similarly a flavor can diminish quicker in some recipes than others -- like those with flavors high in ethyl maltol.
Maybe premixing some common pairings could help, but seems there would be too much variation unless you have a really common pairing used in many recipes. If you do find that certain flavors peak quicker when pre-mixed as a standalone in VG/PG definitely let me know. I'll try the same but I'm doubting it'll be effective.
>it's not particularly useful to pre-mix a single flavor
I'm not talking about premixing a single flavor mix but yeah it could be useful even when the first stage is a single flavor like taking a 6 week steeped tobacco and adding something to it that has a tendency to fade quickly or using that perfectly steeped tobacco as a base for different mixes that might only need a week of steeping once mixed but that's kind of a different concept IMO.
>since it's the interactions with other flavors (not the base solution) that require the most time.
It really all depends. I have some mixes that don't steep anywhere near a long, or at all, compared to some of my single flavor mixes. Pretty much all of my single flavor tobaccos need a month of steeping whether they are mixed with something else or not.
Some flavors just need a lot of steeping and some do not. Some are great fresh and fade a lot over time where others become more prominent and others meld.
For example Nicoticket used to have a juice that started off as a thin mint flavor fresh but slowly transitioned into an oreo cookie flavor with an extended steeping with no mint flavor at all. That's kind of the opposite of what I am doing though I think the same principle is behind it. Instead of knowing how the flavors will develop and making it to where it will transition from one thing to another I take the transition into account and modify when the ingredients are added so that you end up with the desired flavor at the end.
>Maybe premixing some common pairings could help, but seems there would be too much variation unless you have a really common pairing used in many recipes.
I'm not really talking about premixing. I'm talking about staged mixing which, to me, is a completely different concept.
I'm not really making base mixes and adding to them to end up with several different final products, though I have done that, but instead developing a single recipe that is meant to be mixed in stages so that the finished product results in all of the flavors being at their peak levels. Of course what one considers their peak level is going to vary as everything else does in the DIY world or really the vape world in general.
Here is an example: lemon curd tart with Chantilly cream. The custard, cream, crumb, and vanilla components really need about a month to meld but the lemon mix wont be as prominent as I want it to be or as "fresh" tasting and will fade by that time so I would mix up the "crust" and the "curd" sans lemon, steep it for 4 weeks and then add the lemon flavors and steep for one or two days.
Like MD said in the parent comment, "A S&V can be tasty as fuck but 2 days later one of the flavors has mostly dissipated." Some flavors just don't stick around and this is an effort to combat that as well as to achieve a better blend.
Another popular example that might help since a lot of people have tried it is Om Vape's Cobra. Its a strawberry milk flavor. I won a 30ml when they first opened up a couple of years ago. When I first got it the strawberry flavor was good but the milk part was lacking and I knew it needed some steep time but by the time the other flavors were well steeped and where they needed to be the strawberry flavor was gone. Using staged mixing you could have had the well steeped milk flavor as well as the flavor given by the strawberry when it is fresh.
> If you do find that certain flavors peak quicker when pre-mixed as a standalone in VG/PG definitely let me know.
I'm sure if you have purchased made to order juice in the past you have experienced it already with some flavors dying out over time and other becoming more prominent but once you start mixing you will find that some flavors are better steeped and some flavors are better fresh but what happens when the flavor you want to create uses flavors from both categories? This is what has lead me to staged mixing.
Lime and Lemon flavors come to mind instantly. I quit mixing them because I tend to not vape anything for a long time once it's mixed. After about 2 months sitting they taste awful to me. But when it's fresh a day or 2 old, it's amazing. So I wait to mix them and make sure I consume it right away.
One thing I HIGHLY recommend is taking note of how every flavoring you use, steeps (if you take any kind of notes of course). Some age really well and get better with time, while others lose their potency and fade into the background. Some flavorings don't change at all. Some flavorings don't change until 2 weeks later and then taste completely different. Taking note of all this will help you develop down the line to ensure your recipe has flavorings to support those that fade. This will give you a more vivid and saturated experience. Glad you were able to experience that amazing feeling of making a great eliquid as well! KEEP MIXING
The Great Wayne has spoken! Love the vids man and the site is an amazing resource for any skill of mixer
Some extremely helpful advice. I am understanding more and more that this stuff is a lot like wine. Every persons tastebuds are different and experience all flavors differently. I will write down all my notes for my 3 week steep and continue so i can mix better in the future. Thanks again!
And thats why I mix about a liter at a time...
I did about 400ml and wasn't patient enough at first!
As a mostly custard/bakery guy it is great, by the time I am on my last few bottles I mix up more and then always have bottles that have spent at least a month steeping.
This makes me glad I'm not into dessert or tobacco type juices. I'm way too impatient to wait so long on them. I'm more on the menthol/mint/fruity side, which you can vape only after 24 hours or so. My favorite juice tastes as good on the first day and a month later. I have noticed, however, that some of my mixes do taste better as time goes by, despite them being fruity mixes.
Happened with my simple Bluberry extra/sweet cream mix. Tasted like hell the first time I vaped it. I put it away as my "back up" juice in case I run out of juice or something, it had nic as well so I wasn't going to drain it. Fast forward about a month later. I vaped it again and 30 ml bottle was gone in 2 days. Another one was Naked 100 clone from ELR. Mixed it up and found that TPA pineapple was overpowering everything and giving me a weird type of throat hit. Same thing, I came back to it about 2 months later and I can't put it away. I guess it also has to do with a nice change and a different palette from your ADV.
Patience is the name of the game.