I was interested in doing some small-time sales to support my diy hobby, but I've been hesitant, since I've seen many fail to gain any traction. With that said:

What was the most effective way to get your name/product recognized initially?

And, do you think it's possible to do it again, considering industry saturation (but without regard to the pending regulation)?

This is a great comment. I feel the same way about FA Nonnas Cake and FA Marzipan. I grew up eating all sorts of cookies that tasted just like those flavors. It's almost as if those flavors send a signal to my brain that makes me remember my childhood.

I just scanned for some easier questions, and then this came up. I'm going to tackle it now as it will be the hardest for me to type. Tackling the hard things first can sometimes speed up the easier things.

Ann and I have always naturally been private people. This was the case when I fell in love with her on my first day in college, to reconnecting 15 years later. Just like everyone, we've gone through some hell. We've always just handled it ourselves.

This industry has given us more dear friends than we ever thought we would have. I'm not talking bout acquaintances. I'm talking about dear loved ones.

As soon as HCV finished a the process of taking over manufacturing of all 8 of our flavors, our personal lives fell apart. I don't want to be morbid, but there has been a lot of death and sickness surrounding us and including us. And it all happened at the same time.

If HCV didn't exist, KIC would not exist now. The reason is twofold:

1. HCV invested an incredible amount of money and resources into taking us onboard. The amount of SKUs was a little insane and ramped up at light speed by the best in the business. Within a week of this finishing, I had to become a caregiver full-time. Things only got worse from there. If HCV had not shown so much faith in us, we physically wouldn't have been able to continue the business with the same philosophy (or even continue at all).

2. You and Protzman are some of the most amazing individuals Ann and I have ever met. We love you dearly, and the love and patience you return back is... well it's the heart of who you are.

PRY4 after the Envii came out. There are two perfect closed system combos that I've tried. Castle Long Reserve in the Cync (I am blessed to have Brian Walters in my life as well) and PRY4 in the Envii.

I need to take a short break now, but I promise I will focus on some more DIY topics when I come back. <3

Since I answered your question in another comment, I'll elucidate a bit more on it:

• Cliche, but true: If I am in the process of crafting (eliquid, our website, etc.) and there is a deadline I get very manic during the process. I will work for 24 hours straight and be constantly irritable because I feel like my technical ability can't keep up with how fast my mind races. I type pretty fast because of this, so writing is my favorite medium. It is also where I have the most technical training.

• This has naturally inclined me to abstract art, post-modern literature, and a large part of my musical taste that most people consider noise. After I understand structure and order, I immediately lose interest in structure and order. So after the reasearch phase (which I enjoy), the structure and order need to be deleted immediately for me to actually create.

• This problem was severe when I first started DIYing (and I even started with weight!). Ann thrives on process and repetitive detailed tasks. As a social worker, she had to document (in handwriting) constantly. She will write notes (lengthy and personalized if the person has written back to us) for 8 hours straight without complaining about her wrist hurting. So I have rarely actually mixed anything. Like I said in an earlier reply, I smell things and write numbers down.

Ok, clones!

I'm going to phrase this very carefully so Ann doesn't break my nose. Ann is a life-long social worker. I am a life-long entrepreneur. I absolutely adore reading every clone recipe.

Ann is very protective of me, and the amount of time I spent developing Lenola Cream had a big impact on her. She also isn't a DIY hobbyist. She is the spine of the company. She is the one that works 20 hours a day despite suffering from some health conditions that would cripple most. She is not involved much in "the industry", meaning things like the clone aspect of DIY didn't resonate with her at first. She's old-school cool. If it isn't original, if someone like Milo isn't screaming it, then what's the point? So when I explained the concept to her of cloning liquids, she looked at it more as BOBBY DID SOMETHING ORIGINAL STEP OFF. It took some time for her exposure of the industry to understand that cloning is a learning tool. I never tried to clone a recipe or even mix someone else's recipe when I started in DIY so she was never exposed to that - I learn differently. She now finds it incredibly flattering, and as the one who mixed Lenola Cream for years she has a great appreciation for the nuance involved.

As far as the clones. It's absolutely amazing how INCREDIBLY far off base some ingredients are that seem like they are the most obvious. I am primarily talking about anything fruit-based. The progressions started getting better on some of the more nuanced notes, but then the the most obvious ones started heading in an even more incorrect direction! I find it fascinating.

The first is an awesome illustration that our good friend Michael Howard did for us.

The second is from when we (along with some local B&Ms) bought tickets to A Billion Lives for anyone who wanted to attend. There was a minimum order quantity on tickets that needed to be sold for a local showing in Savannah, so we bought that amount to assure it would happen.

http://imgur.com/a/Ef1H1

Edit: Will answer second question later to spread the love! Thank you for your support. <3

Hey you!

I can't find a decent reddit app for the IPad Pro, so I hope my formatting for multi-part questions shows up ok for everyone.

> How much for the recipie for lenola cream if I sign an NDA?

How did Brexit affect the exchange rate on Schrute bucks?

>What is the one flavor you always wanted but could never quite perfect?

Tobacco. My personal taste gravitates there. So let's say J Mascis is your idol guitar player and you want to learn an instrument and start a band. You can go two routes:

1. You can obsessively focus on learning his style, knowing that your admiration is stronger than your ability.

2. Learn to play bass like Mike Watt.

>What is your inspiration for the unique and crazy concoctions you've released?

I'm having trouble with these types of questions. Could you be more specific?

>Aliens or Predator?

Alien~~s~~

There is a book that can be written about this, so I'm being brief. That being said (from glancing some of the first questions), I am sure it will be expanded upon in other questions. Short answer: no.

There is a liquid that I spent a lot of time working on that doesn't exist in the industry. It was next on the queue after the Yellow Noise Maker beta finished. When 5/8 hit, I had to force myself to abandon it. There was a possibility that it would take longer than 3 months to perfect if I devoted 100% of my time to it. Then we would be stuck with Lenola Cream, the beta of Yellow Noise Maker (which is very different from what we released), and maybe a third liquid I would most likely regret releasing.

We just got some good news regarding TPD (more info to come), so there is a possibility since I was developing the flavor profile for a dish in that market anyway.

The big caveat is that I started another business a year ago that I've been able to devote zero time to due to personal reasons. My plan is to devote 50% of my time to that and 50% of my time getting back to communicating with our customers and friends.

Edit: Have to catch a bit of sleep!

When /u/kirkt has a chance to catch up, I think I'll have a bit more clarity on the best format to continue so many conversations that can tend to get rather lengthy. I have no time constraints or limit on how many questions I will answer, however my pacing might be erratic.

This will take some time to answer thoughtfully, but I promise I will be back! I'd like to get some of the easier questions out of the way so I don't seem silent. <3

Oops, accidentally replied to myself.

Ok, going to try to tackle this before I catch some sleep.

The first part of your question (thank you for the kind words) will be addressed in-depth in the main KIC posts I will be putting up in ECR. It is focused entirely on business, having nothing to do with liquid crafting.

As far as my favorite liquids, it would help my focus greatly if you could help me out with specific profiles. I have hundreds of favorites from dozens of vendors.

Gear - this will come into play in what I hope will be a non-controversial post regarding high end and low end in ECR. This is less about personal preference, and more about identifying a sister market for a craft product.

I have owned a majority of the high end atomizers out there. However due to my primary use of the JUUL, I tend to give them away to friends after understanding how they work with our liquids. There is no need for them to collect dust. If I didn't pay for something, I keep it as it was a gift from the creator. I spent a lot of time as "that guy" that everyone asks for opinions on flavor atties, since I was known for owning most of them. /u/prettymatthew is my favorite friend to send atties to, as I typically can tell from someone's liquids what products they will enjoy.

I credit my dear friend Nareg for getting me back into dripping after heavy mesh use when he released the NarDA. He wasn't very well known as the tube game was very saturated at that point of time. The first list didn't even fill if I remember correctly. He supported us as a customer prior to its release (one of the first pre-release pictures of the NarDA was sitting next to a bottle of Lenola Cream on his Instagram), and I always make sure to return the gesture even if it is something I do not think I will enjoy. The NarDA changed the game for me. It was my primary testing atomizer for everything besides Lenola Cream (edited to add that Lenola was tested primarily on the first Magma released into the US market as beta testing got heavy).

Ann only uses Norbert atomizers, specifically the Origen Tiny Tank but moreso the Origen 19/22 tank since it was released.

I have to run now, but I thought atomizers were something important to discuss relating to DIY. <3

WTF is a FA Joy? <3

Thank you for the love and glad I can help! I think what you guys have done in the eliquid market, along with those like /u/prettymatthew and some others have really set the tone for what premium eliquid is compared to just "commercial". It's a shame where eliquid has gone since, but I do see a resurgence of "flavor first" coming back. Would love to see more of you in the DIY sphere either releasing discontinued or never released recipes. Your work is truly unique. While I'm not the biggest K into N fan, it's seriously one of the most ambitious flavor profile I've ever seen in vaping.

I will have to come back to this one later tonight. When I get into something, I tend to get obsessive about it. I have a horrible memory, but somehow have lyrics to infinity songs burned into my brain. So if you asked me what my favorite band was (flavoring manufacturer) or song (flavor), I would meander on for a few hours without forethought.

Miss you and love you brother. Please see my post in the KIC Facebook group.

Kite in Cloud

I'll come back later for Lenola Cream

From the very beginning here were my considerations:

Avoid having the word "vapor" and anything having to do with vaping or eliquid in the name. While some people are good with short-term and long-term business strategy, I excel in mega-long-term business strategy. We entered an industry with the knowledge that in 3-4 years it would probably cease to exist. Since just as much time was spent on our brand as our product, if the product became successful the brand needed to surpass it. The product might not exist soon. Why lose a valuable brand too? Cloud was subtle enough to serve both purposes. The general name comes from my musical taste and that aesthetic.

Like I mentioned in another comment, there is another project I am leading shaping up to be pretty rad. KICNRAD in fact. My thoughts on the future have been there lately, and not so much on the future liquid trends. <3

I'm going to try to get to this comment next, as it's definitely a fun story. :)

As far as manufacturing, I'm not comfortable answering some questions. Last year we fell in love with Hardcorevapers and they handle our manufacturing now. I try to stay away from questions I don't feel qualified answering. I'm sure Dr. Pretty will be around to answer anything that comes up. <3

One juice? Here it goes! JUUL mint. I hope I just didn't burn my business to the ground.

Edit: Ann's desert island vape is Steamy Nuts by Steam Cycle.

Beautiful sounds, beautiful things to look at, beautiful words, and meeting beautiful people.

Hi there!

There seems to be a lot of tobacco talk in this thread, and I went through a long period of time where I only vaped NETs. I'll include some content about that when I talk a bit on tobacco in response to previous question.

As far as branding, for me to give you proper advice I would have to know about hundred more details. My general advice is to know when you aren't the smartest room, defer to who is, and capitalize on that. So is his brand smarter than what you'd envision creating? By smarter, I really mean better in more of the dozens of branding aspects you need to consider on a checklist than your potential aspects are. I hope that helps.

I actually put together some playlists together for a friend not too long ago. I'll post it when I can figure out where it is. :)

Wayne actually did a pretty good job over here.

I don't have anything to release, but I would be open to help "KICIFY" other's recipes in the future when time permits.