One of the reasons I got into vaping was because I love tobacco aromas but always felt that those aromas were lost upon combustion. I then found some eliquid tobaccos and was really surprised by how un-tobacco-like they were so quickly switched to desserts (I'm sure most people have a similar story).
But the thing is, tobacco vapes, even the sweet kinds, have their own unique profile that I intend to get back into. Certainly I find the aromas are some of the most compelling.
So I wanted to invite people who are familiar with and appreciate that profile to put down their recipes or some tips they've picked up on which flavorings make up a good, sweet tobacco base and how to build upon it.
I'm talking profiles similar to Grumpy's Hooch, Boba's, Shire Malt etc. or even just share favourite eliquids new and old.
There are tons of awesome tobacco recipes here on this subreddit, discoverable by searching. I also have found good ones on e-liquid-recipes.com and alltheflavors.com. The best way to find recipes on ELR in my opinion, is to look up the flavor notes page for a tobacco flavoring you know you enjoy, and then you can find all recipes that include that flavor. For example: I know I really enjoy FA Virginia, so here is the flavor notes page on ELR for it, and if you scroll down and click on "Recipes >" you'll find 141 recipes using that flavor. You can also sort those recipes by Rating to see the highest-rates recipes first. Doing this has led me to discover some of my favorite recipes--- here is one that I'm vaping right now (and loving it): 7 Dark Desert Virgins
All of this will take some amount of flavor knowledge, but that's the fun part--- order some flavors and start tasting them as standalones to figure out what your favorite basic tobaccos could be. Have fun!
Edit: I should also mention that Pistachio Brûlée is probably my favorite dessert tobacco recipe at this time. You can never go wrong with Pistachio RY4-U, which is amazing, but has no tobacco flavor to speak of.
awesome. Yeah the only thing for me is that I don't know what tobacco flavorings to shoot for as all I have is RY4 Double and to me that smells and tastes like licorice, and I'd like to try Wayne's RY4 but like you say, it seems like it has no tobacco flavor.
So I'm looking see which ones are good to build a sweet base with.
I'm in a pretty similar spot to you - tried tobaccos in the early days of vaping, hated them, went to desserts, now starting to play with tobaccos after a few years of dessert and fruit vapes.
Full disclaimer - I'm still pretty fresh so take anything in this post with a grain of salt. I also haven't bought any tobacco juice since my early days so I don't really have any experience with what a good commercial tobacco juice should taste like. I'm also more of an 'eJuice mixer' than an 'eJuice recipe creator' if you know what I mean.
You may like /u/enyawreklaw's Marble 27.
INW AM4A is more tobacco-y than TFA RY4D but I still don't think you could call it a true tobacco. He says it's Marboro Light/27 clone but to be honest, didn't really taste anything like a Marb light to me. In saying that, whenever I smoke any cig all I can really taste is smoke and ash. Anyway, that recipe is quite a nice dessert "tobacco" with a hint of smoke in the background from the AM4A.
You may also like /u/project_twenty5oh1's Nanner Bear Clone..
It's a nice complex recipe, lots going on, always different stuff to pick out. TFA DK isn't really a fully fledged tobacco. It's hard to describe, kind of astringent, almost smokey but not really, with a weird herbal note.
INW 'x' For Pipe range may interest you. I've just mixed up some samples of vanilla, dark and cherry so haven't had a real taste yet. But on smelling the bottles they could be a good base to work with for dark/sweet tobaccos.
I've played a little with FLV Red Burley, it got good reviews here but I wasn't really a fan. Very woody and quite grassy. Could be used as an accent in a sweet tobacco but I don't think you'd want it as a main player.
I've also player a bit with a few other tobaccos from TFA - m-type, mild black and western. They weren't great. All very grassy/hay-like.
In the future any tobaccos I pick up I think I'll be looking at INW and maybe FA. They seem to be the more commonly used tobaccos.
FWIW, any tobacco juice I'm mixing at 50/50 and 12mg and using it in a Kayfun Light V3 clone. In comparison the rest of my juices are mixed at 70/30PG, 3mg and usually in a restricted DtL device. Personal preference for sure but I feel tobacco type juices are much more suited to MtL and higher nicotine. Even in the sweeter style tobaccos I find too much VG adds way too much sweetness and just doesn't mesh well with those grassy, earthy and almost-smokey notes. I think the higher nic and PG also give a throat hit that is part of the tobacco experience.
thanks for the tips! it's worth just reiterating that I'm really not into cig-a-like flavors at all. And the reason I'm trying to get back into 'tobacco' flavors is more to find the eliquid version of tobacco flavors rather than mimicking real smoke.
I bought Grumpy's Hooch years ago and the smell was OUT OF THIS WORLD. Shame about the taste but I felt like there was something that could be honed using that profile as a starting point.
I also tried a french pipe tobacco once that tasted a lot like wheat/malt. I wonder, is that what you mean when you say grass/hay? coz I quite like that profile.
Also just looked at those 'for pipe' flavors coincidentally just before reading your comment, they do look pretty good.
Black Mile plus looks good too.
Yeah, I think we're aiming for a similar sort of thing - like a sweet raw tobacco type profile more so than taking a drag on a cig. I always loved the smell of opening a fresh packet of cigarettes or rolling tobacco. Not too sure about American tobacco as I always smoked the British/NZ brands (Rothmans, Dunhill, Park Drive, Port Royal) but I love that fresh pack smell with that dark, raisin-y, almost like a heavy stick British christmas cake. I'm hoping that the INW for Pipe flavours can get me something along those lines.
Nah, not really wheat/malt but a touch of those concentrates could maybe help if that's something you're aiming for. The aroma of those concentrates really was similar to the smell of a hay bale. Also comparable to when you mow the lawn on a hot summers day and the clippings start to dry out. I really should revisit those concentrates as it's been a year or so since I've done the tasting on them. The flavour profiles weren't really up my ally so I wrote them off and never went back to them.
I don't know if you've ever had The Duke from Indigo, but here is my first good clone of it. It still needs to pass the steep test, but I'm pretty confident I'm really close. The Hongtashan isn't really sweet, it's got more of a cinnamon feel, which gives it a nice kick. INW Tobacco Symphony is pretty good for a sweet leafy type of tobacco.
INW Garuda would probably interest you if you like the grassy/hay type of flavor.
SC Turkish I've used in a couple of dessert type recipes. It's kind of creamy and sweet. I used it in my Boyd's/Boba's Bounty tribute which was decent enough. I have been looking for dirtier burning tobacco tastes lately, so I haven't mixed it lately.
I think FLV Native Tobacco might interest you as well. Mixing with FLV has been kind of weird for me though. I either don't taste it in the mix, or I only taste it in a mix. But I think I'm starting to get a handle on it. I just need to use it more. FLV Red Burley is good if you're looking for more of an earthy flavor.
I'm not really in to RY4 stuff anymore. I got burnt out on vanilla and can't stand it in a mix anymore. So when I want something a little more on the sweet side, I prefer 555 tobaccos. FA Glory is pretty good at 2% after about 3 weeks of steeping. INW 555 Gold is also good, but may smell and taste like wet dog. It did for me at the beginning until I got used to it. INW Peanut Tobacco isn't sweet, but I'm really liking my test bottle of it. It's like a raw peanut flavor. Could probably work well with some sweet stuff.
I only just purchased a few recently that I haven't had the luxury of having in my arsenal in the past but one above all else stood out in the dessert category -- Tab Blended from Hangsen. I'm pretty sure I've tasted it in a couple of premium tobacco style vapes years ago -- whether or not it's what was used or if it was a combination of flavors mixed to the end result, I don't know. All that said, there's little to no tobacco in it, but it works very well towards a dessert tobacco profile -- salty, sweet (possibly caramel?) but mostly nutty with hints at tobacco without actually tasting any. Similar in style to Soho but so much richer (much richer at 9% standalone than Soho is at 10%) and so, so much better and without any of the off notes I get from Soho (think brand new, freshly opened, retail CD liners with track list and album production notes). I've tried it with some Cohiba from SC, with a slightly spicy back-end sorta like the high notes in a peanut buster parfait with extra spanish peanuts without the cream; Mixed with Seven (SC) and it results in a similar flavor when mixed with Cohiba, but without the spice and more on the chocolatier side...
For last couple of years I was a Rocket Puppy whore, mixing up variation after variation, adding something new, most with pretty great results, but lately I've been stuck on Seven (SC) by itself, for several months now -- I just can't put it down... Tootsie-roll sort of chocolate malt flavor, with slight hints at tobacco post-steep; I've used it in a Bowden's Mate clone as the only chocolate note with pretty great results.
Honorable mention to Maxx Blend (SC) -- starts out as a slightly perfumy/cologne-y flavor, and seems to be more of a hazelnut/nutella sort of flavor (without an overwhelming sense of hazelnut); Not as good as the aforementioned three, but steeps out to something of a noteworthy standalone...
I'd recommend all four, TBH -- 7 day steep minimum on the Tab Blended (HS) and Maxx Blend (SC). Cohiba (SC) and Seven (SC), 5 day minimum to witness the beginning of your next love affair.
EDIT I referenced Mile Seven originally, which is a concentrate carried by ECX branded as Flavor/Tobacco Express, however, I've been told previously they were phasing it out -- It is also carried under the name Seven (SC) at BCF. I've modified the above the reflect the change.
cool, thanks. I've never even heard of SC before. And they don't even carry descriptions on BCV, and often have no reviews. So it's kinda like going in blind.
Out of curiosity, did you ever try Grumpy's Hooch, Boba's Bounty or flavors of that ilk back in the day? those are the kinds of approximate profiles I'm aiming for.
unfortunaltely, no -- I was like three or four months into vaping when I dove headlong into DIY. Never really looked back... I wanted to try Boba's but locally it wasn't available and I hadn't gotten around to finding it online. First I've ever even heard of Grumpy's.
The "no descriptions' thing is an unfortunate drawback -- Always a put-off for me as well. You either have to buy based on existing reviews and any breadcrumbs within their notes on the seller's site, ELR reviews (trust the few who have tried them there -- they're rarely wrong (Kinnikinnick, Jose, T_Mace, Provapes to name a few) or jump head first into adventure roulette mode.
I'm not entirely sure, but SC might also be sold at VapingZone as VZ SC Alcohol Based Flavorings -- Some of the names are the the same and some suggest similar profiles, but I haven't yet purchased anything through their site. It's also been suspected that the Tobacco Express line at ECX is SC, but there's never been any actual confirmation that I'm aware of other than comparing personally or reports of comparing flavor for flavor and being the same. They're really not well known, but those who have used them know they're worth keeping around. I've only had four or five and so far I haven't regretted for a second throwing down on any of them...
Definitely a hidden gem -- I'd venture to say had I tried them (SC) before I tried all the rest (FA, INW, TPA), I'd likely have saved myself hundreds in currently unused flavors.
Hangsen USA Red, Hangsen Tobacco Blend, FLV Tantaka Tobacco, TPA RY4 Double, Hangsen Flue Cured, Vanilla for Pipe INW, TPA Western, these are the winners for me as I hate that anise note in many tobaccos
And work with a ry4 double + and hangsen at a 4% to 1% blend and then grow from there.
Most good tobaccos take over the mix after 1% from what i like in those tobacco notes.
Ckemist Southern Smoke, Ckemist Smoke Dog, Ckemist 2RY4 will get you going.
My first love was Jon Wayne by Uncle Junk. Then I started mixing and found a concentrate that is similar but not as good. Ry Whore by Chef's Vapours in the UK, this is my adv now and has kept me off cigarettes.
I tried very hard to try and mix something even remotely close to Jon Wayne but failed.
My ideal tobacco juice would contain Caramel, butterscotch, maybe a tiny bit of vanilla and definitely some brown sugar.