What are some tricks you guys use for adding a bit of depth to the tobacco side of an RY4 recipe, without overshadowing the recipe's main attraction? For example, I've tried Wayne's Pistachio RY4 with adjustments like AP, RY4 FA, Toasted Almond... Nothing ended up being worthwhile.
Most recently I'm working on a banana coconut tobacco recipe, inspired by (but not meant to be a clone of) Indigo's Captain Ron. My first attempt was vapeable but not amazing. I have some ideas for how to improve it, but I'm stuck on the tobacco. I want to bring it forward a bit, but I want it to remain smooth and light. I'll supply the v1 recipe for reference. I'm open to any suggestions, but what I'm really interested in here is the tobacco.
1% Banana (CAP)
1% Coconut Extra (TPA)
3% Graham Cracker v1 (CAP)
7% RY4 Double (TPA)
0.8% Soho (FA)
2.5% Sugar Cookie (CAP)
Edit: I guess specifically I'm asking which tobacco flavorings tend to play best with RY4 / RY4 Double? (No BM or BM+ please, can't stand that stuff anymore.)
Edit 2: Thanks so much for the feedback. I thought I had a fair amount of tobacco concentrates (maybe 20-30), but these suggestions have made me realize I'm missing quite a few of the staples. I've never had a shopping list grow so quickly right after a big order, but sadly I'll probably have to wait a month or two before placing cos int'l shipping is a bitch.
If it were me then I wouldn't add anything. The Banana is a strong flavour as is RY4 Double. Soho has a strong destinctive flavour along with Coconut EX.
Tweaking %'s may do it for you so maybe this would be worth trying:
0.8% Banana
0.8% Coconut Extra
2% Graham Cracker v1
6% RY4 Double
1.2% Soho
2% Sugar Cookie.
Just to see if that makes a difference before putting anything else in.
That's nice, actually very close to what I had in mind if I were to keep the same flavors. Though even at 3% I feel like the graham cracker was a bit lacking, but it could be just overpowered by the banana and coconut.
Side note, I have FLV banana on order, any advice on where to start if I swap out the CAP?
You could try subbing 2% Graham Cracker CAP for New York Cheesecake or Graham Cracker Crust TPA at the same percentages. It's a pain balancing RY4's.
FLV Banana is very strong. Start at 0.25% imo and work from there.
Turn down the RY4 Double and add 1 percent INW Gold Ducat to boost the tobacco a little.
INW dirty neutral base or an INW tobacco absolute from the Wera Garden Line would "tobacco up" your recipe.
Never tried Captain Ron though
Don't have Dirty Neutral yet. Is it anything like FA Black Fire? If so, I think I'll stay away cos I don't really get into that strong synthetic ashy taste. But I think I have the other one. It's Tobacco Absolute Virginia you're talking about, right?
i havent tried fa dark fire. and dont know how to compare the 2.
/u/T_mace did i thihnk you can search for it in the sidebar sorry on my way out the door.
in addition to virginia there is also garuda and cubano.
garuda is light leafy
cubano is more medium
virginia is dark af mane
I think you should look into jungle flavors ry4 double. It's got a darker, deeper flavor than TFA in my opinion. It also doesn't need to steep for a long time. 3% of the JF ry4 double would give you what you need and you can forget about the TFA stuff. As soon as I tried the JF version, the TFA one went on the shelf never to be even thought about again. Not a single regret.
Adding a tobacco flavoring would work but imo, this would just create a nutty additive to the flavor. Though that's really all tobacco flavors are for most part. Adding a little bit of CAP Vanilla Custard might make it taste a bit thicker though. RY4 I mainly get a Vanilla Caramel flavoring from and not much tobacco at all. Even a bit of Caramel might be what your looking for.
In my experience, a neutral tobacco works best to pump up the tobacco flavor - especially to leave your other flavors in play here. You might try HA USA Red, HA Tobacco Blend or INW Burley. 2 or 3 percent for the Hangsen and 1 percent for the Inawera might work well as these are straight tobaccos that won't introduce other flavor profiles to your mix.
I just want to chime in with a few notes on my journey attempting to get close to Captain Ron I picked up a few details from the owner that might help someone else?
The Duchess is more our less our take on the classic Black and Mild. (I think seedmans) Our base blend is 50/50 w/ distilled water (captain ron dries my shit out something feirce) Tobaccos used: Flue Cured, Virgina tobacco, Kentucky Burley The % of VG will vary with the particular product, anywhere from 96% - 85% VG
And remember they have been around for many years w/ this blend, and it hasnt changed, so they cannot be using any newer tobaccos. I know for 100% sure they use TFA Western in the base.
This is very helpful, thanks a lot. I haven't actually had Captain Ron for quite some time. I stopped buying from vendors completely when I started DIYing, cos int'l shipping costs. So I don't remember exactly what it tastes like, but I'm a little surprised to hear Western is in it. That taste is so distinct, I remember tasting it in so many other juices, but I hadn't linked it to C.Ron.
Maybe try an extra tobacco flavor. I use Black Honey (TPA) to got with RY4 double. However, it is rather sweet so you might wanna cut something from you other sweet flavors.
Even if Black Honey doesn't work, I'm sure you will find some tobacco flavor that gets what you want. Just keep it as simple as possible.
Yeah, I'll try upping the Soho and then maybe a few other versions using different tobaccos. I have quite a few tobacco flavorings, but I'm not too comfortable with most of them yet, so I figured someone around here might have a better idea of where to start.
I use Black Honey, in addition to Bavarian Cream. I don't think it would work very nice with fruits. Maybe nuts, but definitely not fruits. Try some cigar tobacco maybe, or sisha maybe.
I made this recipe several weeks ago, and about a week ago it tasted like cat pee and nothing else to me. It had had at least 2 weeks' steep, 30ml bottle.
I like SC Turkish with a dessert style of tobacco. FLV Native might also play nice with it. I'm not sure about Captain Ron, but I believe I have finally identified the base for The Duke as ECX Hongtashan. It's got a bit of a cinnamon kick to it, but used low enough probably won't be too harsh.
Nude Nicotine Tobacco. Vapes like an NET (which it may be, but it burns decently clean), very smooth, no sharp notes, faintly sweet, little to no ash, leafy. Has realistic nuances of real tobacco. VG base, needs 4 weeks or longer steep.
I use 2.25% as a single flavor; would try adding 0.25% to boost the tobacco portion of an RY4.
Just a few flavors I've played around with in my RY4 mixes:
Biscuit (INW) - I've gone as high as 2% without taking the spotlight away from tobacco, but I usually keep it between 0.5-1%. Dairy Milk (TPA) - Noticeable at 0.5%. Salt Water Taffy (FW) - At 1-1.5%, you can't even really tell what it is, but the salty quality of this concentrate really works with the other notes in RY4. Loses it's presence / effect below 1%, at least in my mix.