Hi guys - long time reader, but I don't post here much. I just wanted to share a quick trick I developed for myself for mixing up flavors quickly.
First off, I use TFA flavors only because I'm boring, and I always shoot for 15% flavor or so. When I first started mixing, I would go for crazy recipes with 10+ flavors (e.g., 2 drops of lemon, .25 ml of whatever, etc., etc.)
What I found was that not only were my juices just turning out muddy -- probably because I'm not a very good mixologist, but also making juice became tedious. I go through 50 ml of juice about 2-3 days since I work from home, and breaking out all my shit to mix up a new batch was getting tiresome. Here's the solution I found, which not only has made my juices taste better, but also made mixing easier, and made it so I didn't have to break out a calculator whenever I wanted to make a new batch.
I stick with 4 flavors max, first of all, and I always use them in the same ratios. Here are the ratios, shooting for a 15% flavor concentration in a 50 ml batch:
- 4 ml main flavor
- 2 ml secondary flavor
- 1 ml background flavor
- 0.5 ml accent/highlight flavor
This is easy to remember because each flavor is just half the amount of the prior. I've found that by sticking to 4 flavors or less I get more creative in my mixing, as the limitation makes me think harder about what flavors will go well together. Because I use 100mg/ml nic, I know that if I'm shooting for my target 2% nic I just need 1 ml of my concentrate as well.
Anyways, I'm sure you guys will probably tear this apart as a dumb idea, but just wanted to pass it along in case it made mixing easier for anyone else. I'll post some recipes following this formula later if anyone is interested.
I wish we could create some sort of strength index for flavorings.
Like scoville units or whatever. But voted on for strength so these sort of methods could be easier.
That's an excellent idea !
We might have a place to organize this sort of thing soon.
We kind of have that in the flavor reviews. Most reviewers give a recommended starting %.
Scoville's a log scale though. Ours might be something along the lines of %flavors vs % carrier liquids. Might be nice to see the mfrs publish this info.
a different unit of measurement for potency all together would be benificial because x strength of inw stb shisha would be 1% while the same x strength of tfa stb would be like 4%.
I wouldn't say most give one single recommended starting %. Most give the starting percent that they start with. But you have to read down to see if that is close. If that's what they recommend.
What amounts they recommend for what.
It's kind of annoying the inconsistency of how bigger reviewers don't keep the percentage information consistent, but I can't "complain" about it. Their doing gods work and I aint gonna sit here and complain about that.
I'm wondering if we could just get the amount of non-carrier mass in each concentrate or at least an estimate. Ex. FA Meringue
Weigh 100ml of FA Meringue, weigh 100ml of PG, compare the amounts, get the difference, divide it by 100, let's say.
##Experiment
####TFA Ripe Banana -- ATF AVG: 1.58%
- PG: 103.6g
- TFA Ripe Banana: 93.9g
- Diff: -9.7g
####TFA Dragonfruit-- ATF AVG: 2.37%
- PG: 103.6g
- TFA Black Berry: 102.4g
- Diff: -1.2g
####TFA Black Berry -- ATF AVG: 1.91%
- PG: 103.6g
- TFA Black Berry: 102.9g
- Diff: -0.7g
####TFA Strawberry (Ripe) -- ATF AVG: 4.06%
- PG: 103.6g
- TFA Strawberry (Ripe): 103.8g
- Diff: -0.2g
So I have no idea, I don't think this means anything.
I started to do that very thing, based on the ELR average Single Flavor percentage for each flavoring. I wanted to invert each percentage to a "flavor factor", for example if the flavoring had an average of only 2% it would have a factor of say, 15, compared to a flavor rated at 10% with a factor of only 3.
To get an idea of a recipe's total "flavor load" you could multiply each main flavoring's factor by its percentage in the recipe then add all the results together to obtain a total value.
Something like that, anyway...
Some of the average flavor percentages are very skewed from new mixers through. .... ESPPPPPPPPPPECIALLY on ELR. ATF isn't that bad, but for certain beginner flavorings like Strawberry Ripe they're really off, but you can look at the graph and usually see the right bell curve.
Props to /u/quetue on that one!
It's not really as dumb as it could be. Did I just say that?
You're only using TFA flavors. Most of them are pretty close in potency so I'd see how this might work (sometimes). It's when you go mixing brands/vendors that it's going to start really being a mess.
Yeah, that's the big caveat to this method. I have pretty simple tastes though and I am fine with TFA. Vaping is pretty utilitarian for me, just to keep me from smoking. The only reason I went DIY was to save money.
Not to say that I don't enjoy trying different flavors, just that I'm fine with the setup I have and have no interest in mixing it up ^(pun intended) any time soon.
Edit: To add on to what you are saying about potency, you definitely need to know your flavors for this method to work as well. I wouldn't go adding in lemon, dragonfruit, or strawberry as anything but an accent, for example, because it would just overwhelm everything else.
I'd love to see what recipes you use like this
I'm into fruit flavors, which seems to be pretty rare around here, but here are a couple go-to's:
Fuzzy Pear:
- 8% Pear
- 4% Mango
- 2% Apricot
- 1% Dragonfruit
Brandied Fruit
- 8% Mango
- 4% Pear
- 2% Brandy
- 1% Kentucky Bourbon
Honestly a lot of the time now I'm too lazy to write down recipes and I just mix up whatever sounds good at the moment.
Most, but not all. 0.1 ml spearmint has about the same potency as 4 ml blueberry, as I recently discovered.
Yeah there are some "givens" that you can count on like that. For instance, most tobacco, mint, and menthol will usually be stronger than the rest. No matter who the vendor is.
15ml each of 2 fruit flavors in a 250mL bottle is already better than anything I've bought from a B&M
Yeah it's funny because I got into this to save money, but now the idea of paying for juice that tastes only moderately better (or potentially worse) than something I can make at home for pennies just seems ridiculous to me.
I went to see if I had any that followed a similar pattern, and the recipe that was already open went down 1%, down .5%, down .25%. But I think this particular recipe just goes to show that mixing manufacturers and profiles doesn't really work that well.
The recipe:
Maybe I'll Catch Fire
INW Dark for Pipe- 2.5%
TPA Kentucky Bourbon- 1.5%
FA Black Fire- 1%
INW DNB- .75%
The Black Fire and Kentucky Bourbon kind of compete here for the main flavor, and the Dark for Pipe is there to give a bit of body. It follows a similar pattern, but gives a different outcome. That was the only 4 flavor recipe I have that is similar enough to mention. Might be fun to try to come up with one that has the same results you get. But I'll probably stock closer to 7.5% total (4,2,1,.5).
> you guys will probably tear this apart as a dumb idea
Not at all, and it's a good method for creating new combos.
What i usually do is take 2-3 flavors I want in a recipe, take a guess at what % to use based on the place in the recipe and strength of the flavor, mix and test. Sometimes I'll feel a top note or two is desired; sometimes up the % of one or more flavors, sometimes dump the bottle in the sink and start over.
Whatever works for you.
This is good advice. I got back into diy after a hiatus and being overwhelmed with my collection of flavors I kept grabbing like 10 flavors and my recipes were coming out meh. I'll keep this in mind from here on out. I do go off smell too because certain flavors are too harsh so those I usually keep at a 1% or less.
Thanks for this :) I have been DIYing for 2 years now and had become burnt out on mixing. But this method could revive my mojo. I too was finding most of my mixes underwhelming. I think I'll get out my flavors and see what I come up with in the morning.
This kinda made sense, so as soon as I arrived home yesterday, I whipped up this on 50/50 PG/VG, 0 mg nic:
8 % RY4 Double (TFA)
4% Vanillin 10 % (TFA)
2% Dr. Pop (TFA)
1% Western (TFA)
I'm looking for a sweet tobacco-alike with vanilla. Little or no nuttiness. Back when I was into real tobacco, I searched and searched for a vanilla flavored cigar. Tried several, and they were either too dry, or just overpowered the vanilla aroma.
So, I thought... Let's see how it goes with the sweet RY4, plus a non-creamy vanilla (though I might try another mix with VBIC or Vanilla swirl, just for kicks). Plus, since Dr. Pop just tastes like cloves (awful, not good for drink or fruity mixes), I thought, why not? Let's add some spice and mitigate my losses. And let's reinforce the tobacco with a stronger flavor like Western. In tiny amounts.
I tried that after a hot bath. It wasn't bad. A bit heavy on flavor, though. But not bad. I'll give it a couple weeks to steep, and let's see how it develops.
I think this is a good starting point for a new mix if you are talking about the flavour rather than flavourings if that makes sense. What I mean is that if I want my mix something to taste like 70% Fuji apple I would probably only need to add 2 to 3 % Fuji as it's a powerful flavour. However if i wanted blueberry I might have to go a lot higher to get it to the front of the recipe.
Sounds like solid advice tbf. Though I spent h'aaaages friff-faffing around trying to come up with exciting new flavour combos... and I was definitely a lot more enthusiastic and ambitious about it in the beginning whereas now it just seems a lot more tedious, especially since I got talked into making flavours for two of my family members as well...
..Until I just discovered that most of the popular, highly rated recipies on e-liquidrecipies.com are way better than anything I could come up with on a whim by squirting 3 or 4 random flavours together. The good ones (of which there are many) have had far more time to get revised and reviewed and adapted so it's no real surprise. Currently my faves are Bust-a-Nut, Strawberry Fog/Mother's Unicorn Milk (basically identical give or take some Swetlet Cream) and I've just discovered the range of Claire's and Ella's various flavours.
Though if I am feeling adventurous I usually try and use an existing recipe as a starting point and adapt it, so I'm not pissing in the dark and I've got some idea of what sort of ratios/quantities I should use for a particular new concentrate I just bought.