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Professional mixers / people who have mixed for companies: what are your suggestions for creating new flavors?
submitted over 8 years ago by BlitzThunderWolf

I'm currently new to mixing, and I've tried creating my own flavors, without many good results. After following some recipes, I've made some decent mixes, but it'd be nice to be able to actualize ideas. What are some good suggestions for turning your ideas into reality?

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13 points
 
by HocusKrokusover 8 years agoFrugivore

Typically a company will be looking for a specific profile or type of flavor. I'll think of the best in class concentrates and sort of put them all in front of me. Sometimes I'll google real world foods that include the ingredients I've collected and try to find something that fits that idea and then move forward.

Other times it's more simple than that. Spend a lot of time vaping and testing single flavors. Really knowing each flavors highs and lows and middle ground is really crucial to building a quality recipe. Sometimes I'll be vaping say FW Blueberry by itself and think, X flavor would go really well with this. So I'll do a second mix with just those two flavors while thinking about the next step. Recipe development can sometimes take weeks or even months. There's often 10 failures behind a good recipe.

Be patient. Know your flavors. Expect failure, because those failures teach where do something different in the future.

3 points
 
by BlitzThunderWolfover 8 years ago

So, do you tend to mix your single concentrates in a certain ratio with pg and vg (such as a target ratio for a liquid you want to make), or do you just go max vg? Or does it even matter? This isn't about the percentage of the concentrate, but whether or not you are trying to achieve a certain ratio of the bases. Although, a separate question that might be helpful: do you try different percentages of concentrates when doing them as single flavors?

8 points
 
by HocusKrokusover 8 years agoFrugivore

VG ratio is largely preference. I tend to prefer 60VG or 70VG at most. It does matter to some degree, as PG is a far better flavor carrier, but 50/50 is no longer as optimal for today's sub ohm devices.

I do always try a wide range of percentages for single flavor testing. I'll usually start low, say 1-2% in a 5ml sample size. Then after I've finished that with some rough notes, I'll go to 3-5% depending on how well I was able to taste 1-2%. I'll keep going until I hit a high range that isn't pleasant or usable anymore. For stronger concentrates I'll obviously start lower. With FA/INW/FLV/MF I'll start at .25% and work up from there

Edit: I apologize in advance for my lack of coherence, I'm on very little sleep. Maybe in my next podcast I'll cover some basic recipe building ideas.

2 points
 
by corvusfan23over 8 years ago

Where can I check out your podcasts?

10 points
 
by Enyawreklawover 8 years agoCreator - Best Recipe of 2015: Rhodonite

Start simple man. Don't worry about going too crazy with 5+ flavorings in a recipe. The more flavorings you add in the more difficult it becomes to manage. I guarantee you'll be surprised at how great your recipes will turn out with only 2-3 flavorings and a touch of sweetener. You'll learn your flavorings a lot quicker this way without wasting much, and you'll start understanding the value of balance.

5 points
 
by [deleted]over 8 years ago

This honestly is the best advice. I started about 3 years ago. At first I'm throwing in everything ,subtle tastes, flavor nuances. They always came out like cheap. Same time mustard milk came out and it was an awakening. You can get something that taste great with two flavors. Some of my best selling recipes are 2/4 flavors.

3 points
 
by Djvapesover 8 years ago

I cant tell you how much juice i wasted throwing a bunch of flavors in at once. Start with one and slowly build on it. Its nice to think of something and then try to create it, but my best juices have come from slowly adding to a single flavor.

3 points
 
by beardlyohmsover 8 years ago

Best advice I've gotten for my mixing journey has been Wayne's video on layering. I started off trying to make some complex 10 flavour "masterpieces" and ended up removing about half of the flavours after watching Wayne's videos and building strong layers that I can use in other recipes with slight tweaks to accomodate the other flavour's nuances. Some of my top selling juices right now have 4 or 5 flavours in them at maybe 13-15% total. I'm by no means a master but starting simple and building strong layers is the best advice you can get.

7 points
 
by CheebaSteebaover 8 years agoFrugivore

If you don't already have a profile to shoot for, finding inspiration is step 1. If you're trying to recreate something you love in the culinary or aroma world then you have a much higher chance of success. More specific profiles will yield more success since you're pinpointing certain aspects (I.e. Not just any chocolate milk, NesQuick chocolate milk or Ovaltine chocolate milk["More Ovaltine please!"])

Knowing your flavorings is the absolute best way to make good mixes. Once you know your flavorings you should be able to put out a good v1 pretty often that just needs minor tweaks in % or accent flavors to get it where you want it.

PATIENCE!! You WILL fail. Your mixes WILL suck. They WILL tear up your throat. It's all part of the learning process. I still get frustrated when I'm working on a v6 or 7 and it's still seeming like I'm nowhere close. I actually think the failures are more educational than success since you can tell that something doesn't work, why it doesn't work, an what will work on it's place.

Don't force it. I can't tell you how many times I've been working on a recipe, reached a "breaking point," put it on the back burner for a while, and then a month or two later had an ingenious idea (or inspiration from an ingenious mixer) that made the recipe soar. If it's not working, it's not working, and you oughtn't drive yourself mad trying to make it work.

5 points
 
by Ephelusover 8 years agoFrugivore

Disclaimer: not a professional mixer.

However, I sell juice to a fair number of my friends (~20), and with the exception of /u/Enyawreklaw 's Rhodonite, they're all my own mixes. (Sorry, Wayne. I was vaping on it and one of my friends immediately asked "how much for a bottle?") That aside, I've been reading this sub for about a year now. I check all of the flavor reviews, and I do some SFTs. The real work comes down when I get an idea. Whenever I have a good idea, I start with the very basics. I start with the base of the recipe, and slowly start layering in the rest. Yeah, it takes a feel for the concentrates, and that's where SFTs come in. Start with the base of the recipe, and work up to the supporting flavors. Play around with it. Some ideas are good, some are bad (especially if you haven't done single flavor tests or don't have a feel for your concentrates), but all ideas are useful if you pay attention. Finally, you can add those stronger top notes. Those can really screw with your recipe, so don't feel bad if they change. A lot. You'll learn from it. Also, you might want to check out the Beginner Blending podcast. I believe it ended, but it was good while it lasted, and it's nice to listen to while you're driving.

TL;DR: it takes time. Learn your flavor concentrates and that will get you an idea of how to make everything work. Listen to Beginner Blending.

10 points
 
by Enyawreklawover 8 years agoCreator - Best Recipe of 2015: Rhodonite

Never had a problem with peeps using my recipe to sell to friends. As long as you're charging a "premium" rate for the recipes =) And yes I agree, its really all in knowing your flavorings and then using that knowledge with your creativity.

3 points
 
by 51_Prospectover 8 years ago

Typically before ever picking up a concentrate or mixing anything, I like to think about what Im going to make. Think about possible concentrates. Toy around with different ideas in my head first. Generally this helps the mixing process go much smoother, or at least for me it does. I made my best selling juice by playing with the recipe in my head for several weeks first, then finally getting to the mixing. I guess you really need to know your concentrates as well, their strengths and weaknesses and how much to use. The other thing I will do is let's say I want to make something with blueberry in it. I will get out every blueberry concentrate I have to find the best one or combination to use for my particular purpose. Ive watched too many people just jump head first into mixing, dumping 12 concentrates in the mix with no idea or clue why they did what they did. Choose your flavors wisely, make them have a purpose in the mix. Im honestly not the best with words but I hope this helps.

3 points
 
by DIY-Eliquidover 8 years ago

A day late to this but anyway, Im a flavor compounder by trade and what I can tell you from experience is start simple, make a good 2 ingredient recipe. Lets say you want a vanilla then make a recipe with vanillas, let say sweet cream and vanilla custard, play around with the ratios and make a vanilla you like. Now make a nice peach recipe lets say, again simple 2 ingredient version until its right, then you could combine them play with the ratios again a little to match their individual intensity and you should have a decent peaches and creams vape. Also there are many flavor enhancers and sweeteners we almost always use in commercial recipes . I have a small youtube channel and there is a video about triacetin there, check it out when you have some free time it will give you some information to help you smooth out your mixes and how we use it almost in most recipes we make. ( I dont know the policy for spam here so I wont post a link but check my username my lasts posts are recent videos to the channel)

2 points
 
by luft99over 8 years ago

Your video was suggested on my youtube feed few days ago and since I stocked up on smooth and vape wizard. Good info man

1 points
 
by DIY-Eliquidover 8 years ago

thank you I appreciate it.

2 points
 
by corvusfan23over 8 years ago

I too would like to hear the opinions of those who design juice for a living.

2 points
 
by miltoskover 8 years ago

Always put everything in paper before starting any job. This is the most essential part of the business after the creation.

My two cents.

1 points
 
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1 points
 
by afflaqover 8 years ago

Ever play that game with a phone book where you close your eyes and pick a random name and call it? It's a lot like that.

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