Hello, mixers! Friendly neighborhood junior moderator here trying to launch a new monthly feature: The Monthly Clone Challenge.
Too often all those desperate pleas in the monthly clone request thread get crickets. We've got people making the same requests month after month and getting nothing. It's sad.
The purpose behind this monthly clone challenge, if there's enough response make it a regular feature, is to gather the community behind an effort to clone just one juice. Putting a bunch of people's heads together could make it easier to get a passable clone and would help provide data for more in-depth cloning attempts in the future, such as if everyone involved is using the same two concentrates, there's a good chance those two are the right ones, etc.
This thread will have a home in the top bar next to the clone request thread.
While the idea is for everyone who wishes to involve themselves in this to work together and bounce ideas off of each other, not to compete against each other, I intend to select an MVP from each challenge to be the recipient of a very small prize, a token of appreciation, to encourage participation. It'll be the person who made what's regarded by the clone requestor as the best clone, the person who made a great breakthrough in finding a concentrate that informed everyone else's attempts, or someone who provided notes or otherwise seemed to put the most effort into getting the job done.
Now, how to select which juice to focus on? I'll look back over the previous month's Clone Request Thread and pick one. I'll be looking first for the top-voted request, but skipping over requests for multiple clones. I'll also be looking for a request that has gone unanswered or, as best I can tell, inadequately answered.
This month, that would be Titan by Blue Dot Vapors, a request made by /u/diydoofus , who said:
> I love this stuff. I'm ordering some flavors to try and replicate it, but that's not my strong suit. I'm gonna use the following flavors, any additions you people can think of would be appreciated. Apricot Nectarine Ginger Graham Cracker Maybe Meringue FA Maybe Vienna Cream FA Lets hear suggestions or your attempts. Thanks.
Blue Dot Vapors describes Titan as:
> Titan is a sweet apricot, nectarine torte, finished with the tinyiest touch of candied ginger.
EDIT: It's been ages since many of us have bought commercial juice. You are perfectly welcome to completely ignore the cloning aspect of this challenge and just consider the juice description as a prompt to create a recipe all your own with that profile, which will probably turn out better than the juice the description was written for anyway.
Please respond with general thoughts about having a monthly clone challenge, recipes for Titan by Blue Dot Vapors, ideas about how to start an attempt to clone that flavor, hate mail, love letters, lewd artwork, dirty limericks, comments, questions, concerns, anything remotely on topic. Thank you. Love you all.
Edit: Credit for the idea of having a Monthly Clone Challenge goes to /u/DrStore
Hey All, We just stumbled upon this thread and are honored to be the subject of this challenge. In the spirit of this challenge and as a thank you for our flavor being chosen, we would like to offer up to anyone who wants to join in the challenge a free $5 gift card for our site (this will give you enough to order a 25cent sample of Titan and pay for domestic shipping). To use the gift card, you will have to create an account on our site and pass through our age verification software (no minors please!) Please just make an account on our site and then send us a PM on reddit with the email address associated with your account on our site (just in case this gets out of hand, we are going to limit the free gift cards to 100 people). Thanks and good luck!
Wow, you guys are awesome!
/u/DrStore, /u/wafflepriest1, /u/kindground - check this out!
I already put in my order yesterday but have 0 issues with them keeping my money - happy to have it go to a vendor that is kind enough to even offer to do something like this.
Can't wait to get my usual restock of MotP and my 50 ml of Titan to help out with this clone attempt, keep on being awesome /u/BlueDotVapors.
So amazing to see the support. Even without the donation, nice to see your with us :)
How does this work? Will it be like a coupon code? I sent the PM. Has anyone else done this yet?
A gift card will be emailed to you and you enter the number in checkout. Simply add the $0.25 sample to your cart and checkout. You may have not automatically passed age verification when you created your account. It will run your date of birth, address and legal name; some people are not in the database and others don't provide correct information. An ID will be required via email if it fails EVS.
Your gift card will be emailed to you shortly.
I'm not a good enough mixer to help out with this, but I love the idea and I feel like this is something this sub has needed for awhile. It will help bring people together more and collaborate more than we already do.
Thanks for your input. That's what I thought when /u/DrStore suggested it, "Duh, why didn't I think of that?!"
Everyone's a good enough mixer to help out with this, if you've tried that juice or even just one or more of the types of flavors in the profile and know enough about one of them to suggest something.
Thanks, we're honored. This one was pretty difficult to create and took many iterations.
Good luck everyone!
You know, there's a prize for MVP of this challenge. Pretty sure you could earn it just by dropping one little itsy bitsy teensy hint, just one concentrate that's in there...
I started researching reviews to help nail down different notes from different palates. I wanted to add my research here.
So far the general consensus is a forward graham cracker and a very slight hint of ginger, like just enough to tickle your throat. Also some people saying graham is a back note, this could be due to the flavour steeping and fading further into the back. But every review seems to point at a graham type flavour.
I'm leaning towards Cap Gingerbread, CAP/FW Graham Cracker or TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust.
There hasn't been any mention of a cream, so I don't think it's very present. So I wouldn't focus on doing a very creamy tart base.
As for the fruits, the general consensus is jammy apricot and tart nectarines. My best experience with jammy/jelly apricot is TFA but I also haven't used FA. INW will be too earthy for this profile. Side note, I think INW is the apricot flavour in buckland :D. As for nectarine, I don't have much experience here, I will probably end up using CAP because it's all I have on hand.
Feel free to take my research further. I will be posting a remix once I have had a chance to mix this week.
Update/Edit 18 March: I finally got a chance to remix the profile, I haven't tasted the original but this is my take on it. I must have been confused between a nectarine and a tangerine because I have an abundance of peach flavourings. But side note tangerine/apricot is a great pairing together. This is the recipe I made yesterday and steeped for a day so far.
- 3% TFA Apricot
- 0.5% JF Honey Peach
- 3.5% TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust)
- 1.5% FW Graham Cracker
- 2.5% CAP Sugar Cookie v1
- 2% FW Yellow Cake
So I used tfa apricot and jf honey peach as the apricot/nectarine filling. These two really pair up well together and I'm a really big fan of honey peach.
I wanted to get as much graham cracker taste and maintain a tart finish, cheesecake graham crust/ graham cracker/ sugar cookie / yellow cake, alright so I know you all hate the fructose in yellow cake but I'm one of the few that isn't bothered by it, feel free to sub with jungle flavours. The graham cracker and cheesecake graham crust gives the tart finish with a very forward graham taste. I used sugar cookie for the buttery cookie and light sugar notes. Yellow cake is for the grain, I wanted texture in the mix and the yellow cake really helps in that area.
So and ll that's left in this mix is adding 1% CAP Gingerbread. I haven't put it in my take only because I don't have it and it doesn't make sense lying and adding it into the recipe.
I've been thinking about this and - granted I've never tried the juice - CAP Gingerbread makes a lot of sense. It wouldn't work in as candied ginger in a non-bakery recipe because it does have a bready note that kind of reminds me of a fortune cookie, but it's not at all dark brown tasting like a gingerbread man or ginger snap cookie. Put it with some graham cracker or cheesecake graham crust that absorbs that bready note, plus some fruits, I think it could totally pass as "a touch of candied ginger."
I love this idea a lot. Unfortunately I think a lot of us, me included, haven't bought juice in a very long time and have no idea how any of these taste. I don't know how many would be able to contribute.
Maybe having a weekly or monthly post for something similar to what you guys are doing over at /r/GooberGrapeVape. We could post a basic flavor profile and whoever wants to help can contribute to creating the recipe. That way it would engage more of the community and it wouldn't rely on people having to buy the juice to help break down a profile.
I'm just curious because I've seen this twice now, would it really hurt some of us to order up some commercial eliquid once a month? I mean don't get me wrong I love the shit out of DIY (or else why would I be here) and do it for 99% of the eliquid I vape. But if there's a flavor profile that actually looks good or at least interesting to you, would you be willing to buy it or nah?
This is biggest hurdle I see in regards to this becoming a regular thing, and I think some discussion on it is needed - feel free to bash me if I come off like a dick though, cuz that's not my intention.
If there was enough interest in it I would consider it. The only reason I personally would rather go the route I described is because I have a terrible palate and I am lucky if I can figure out the main flavor of a mix.
That makes total sense and is completely understandable. I think having both types of clones - both 'real' clone attempts and 'replication of the profile' attempts (I can't think of another way to put it lol, not like the one is inherently better or worse than the other) in the same thread would just create more discussion and community interaction.
And at least for this month Blue Dot Vapors made it really easy - no need to even pay for the eliquid or shipping. Although I HIGHLY doubt many other companies would be willing to do the same in the future, if they would, I think this could turn out to be a huge and awesome thing.
There's an idea! I've been hoping to see more tiny subs like GooberGrape pop up around a few difficult profiles, but to my knowledge none have yet. Maybe once we Goobers emerge victorious from this struggle with PB and Grape, others will see the value of such endeavors and follow suit.
Meanwhile, you (and by you I mean anyone interested in doing so) are perfectly welcome to completely ignore the cloning aspect of this challenge and just consider the juice description, in this case
> a sweet apricot, nectarine torte, finished with the tinyiest touch of candied ginger.
as a prompt to create a recipe all your own, which will probably turn out better than the juice the description was written for anyway. In fact, I'm going to add something along those lines to the post. Thank you!
Cool, I'm glad you liked the idea. I can see this being a lot of fun and create a lot of interesting ideas.
Yep, a dead-on clone that makes /u/diydoofus cream his or her pants or panties would be ideal, but I definitely won't feel like we've wasted our time posting and commenting here if just one banger recipe for an apricot/nectarine/ginger torte comes out if it. Thanks again for helping me broaden the appeal of this thing.
Aww great! Thank you for the mention /u/ID10-T .
I haven't had this juice, but I have played around with TFA Apricot, if this is a jammy apricot then tfa is a great starting point. TFA Apricot also works really well with a bakery/cookie base, and I can see Cap sweet tangerine helping it out a lot.
I've had Titan and love it. I just got some TFA Apricot in the mail today. Just from the scent of the flavoring bottle, I'd bet dollars to donuts that it IS one of the key ingredients for the recipe. Quite possibly the highest percentage flavor. I have FA Apricot, but that doesn't seem to do it.
It is definitely not FA Apricot. Could very well be TFA. I'm ordering CAP Apricot this week to compare it to TFA and see.
Agreed. My first attempt was: Titan Clone FA Apricot 2% TFA Nectarine 3% FW Ginger 0.5% TFA Graham Clear 1% FA Vienna Cream 0.5% INW Cactus 0.5%
Not it, and not great. I do believe TFA Apricot is the predominant flavor. I believe a hint of TFA Nectarine is in the mix, at an amount of 0.5 to 1% max.
Thank you very much for the idea!
If you have a juice you want to see featured in a new challenge in one month, drop a request in the March Monthly Clone Request thread.
I have played around with both TFA and to a lesser extent FA Apricots and I agree, if it's jammy then TFA is a good place to start. FA Apricot tastes great but it's more bright and fresh, and as best I can tell it tries to hide in a bakery mix. I don't know anything about any nectarine flavor, though, and it's possible Blue Dot is just saying nectarine and it's actually some kind of peach or peach + tangerine that tastes nectariney when combined with these other ingredients.
Love this idea. I am lacking the flavors to participate in this one but I will be following along to see the progress.
Vendors like bluedot are pretty creative and it's a difficult task to recreate some of this stuff. It's inspiring to see the profiles good vendors come up with because such a balancing act takes real skill and creativity. Bluedot has a bunch of skilled mixers and beta testers to help them with working out the kinks. This communal mixing is definitely the way to tackle some of these mysteries.
/u/DrStore is the genius behind this idea. All I did was recognize that genius and get a couple of the other mods to agree to let me run with it.
If you have something you want to see cloned when the next challenge goes up in a month, be sure to drop a request in the March monthly clone request thread.
I love this idea. It's going to be difficult to clone what you haven't tasted though.
The flavor description is "a sweet apricot, nectarine torte, finished with the tinyiest touch of candied ginger."
Without having had it, it leads me to ask questions... Is it fresh or jammy? Is it custard like a lime or lemon pie? Is the crust graham or traditional?
Yeah, I haven't bought juice in two years and don't intend to start, so it's going to be hard for me to really participate in this. But I hope by facilitating it, shining a spotlight on it, we can get those few people who have tried it to put their heads together. Thanks for providing the flavor description. Someone who has tried it will have to answer those questions.
/u/diydoofus ?
Maybe this could be part of the selection criteria when selecting something to picked for the monthly clone? The person who's requesting it needs to go a bit more in depth on the manufacturer's description - even just a few extra notes like what /u/kindground asks would make things a bit easier.
I'm just gonna look at upvotes first, pass on multiple requests in the same comment, and pass on requests that seem to have gotten at least a halfway decent answer. But if people want to go to the monthly clone request threads and reward more in-depth requests with their upvotes, that should encourage more quality requests.
Check out the bold edit, credit to /u/chewymidget for that.
I agree. We can build it better, faster, stronger. Can we call it the $6 million Juice?
This is a FANTASTIC idea, a great way for new and experienced mixers to interact in a bit more complex way than just asking and answering questions.
In fact, since I need to order up more Milk of the Poppy (only eliquid I still buy, don't even want to think about cloning it) I think I'll order up a 50 ml of Titan too, just so I can help out. :)
YAY! It would be great to have your palate on the case!
Drop a request for Milk of the Poppy in the March Clone Request thread if you'd like to see it featured in the next Monthly Clone Challenge starting on April 15th-ish. Just because you "don't even want to think about cloning it" doesn't mean no one will be willing to try to tackle it.
I might just do that, it'd certainly save me money in the long run! There's just so much going on it, i.e. Strawberry, Dragon Fruit, Orange/Citrus, and custard balanced just right - I feel Blue Dot Vapors is one of the few commercial producers who put serious thought and effort into recipe development.
But back on topic, I'm throwing some Titan in the cart too so I'll report back with what I taste when I get it. /u/diydoofus any recommendation on how long I should let it steep from the mix date?
I tasted it fresh out of the mail. Not to my liking, definitely harsh. Tried a couple weeks later was much better. Sweet, but not overly sweet. Not tart either, just a good blend of flavors. I just finished my 100ml bottle. Tempted to buy another, but I'm working on a clone. I'll post how my first attempt went (don't count on much) after a sufficient steep.
I just took /u/BlueDotVapors 's $5 gift card and used it to save some money on a 30 of the pre-steeped version of Titan... and also picked up some pre-steeped Milk of the Poppy while I was at it. First commercial juice I've bought in two years, but I like these guys. They seem to have the heart of DIYer who sells juice to a few friends just like most of us do, only they just have a lot more "friends."
Even if MotP doesn't get picked for a monthly clone challenge, I'll share whatever notes on it I can with you.
I really have to agree with that sentiment about them, really gives me the utmost respect and admiration for them. They were my main vendor before I got into DIY so they will always have a special place in my heart, and my eliquid collection lol.
I really appreciate the offer for the notes on MotP, I'll gladly take it! (And I'll throw it up in the clone request thread for April, that way BDV doesn't somehow end up being cloned two times in a row).
Titan is pretty tasty! I think we could be looking at just a well-balanced four-ingredient recipe: CAP Graham Cracker (that cinnamon note that's absent from TFA's!), CAP Gingerbread, TFA Apricot (or maybe CAP, but not FA), and some other stone fruit that might be TFA Nectarine but could be some peach flavor for all I know.
Thunderstorm
2% Apricot (FA)
3% Nectarine (TPA)
3% Metaphor (FA)
.5% Ginger (NF)
.25 Quince (TPA)
I didn't know what a [torte] (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=+torte&*) was so for everybody else who doesn't know
Thank you! That definition, though... a cake or tart.. like there's not a huge difference? Apparently torte can be just about anything ranging from a huge fluffy cake to little bit of crispy pastry crust with some fruit on it. Judging by the ingredients /u/diydoofus had picked out and the picture used by Blue Dot, I'm thinking this one leans more toward the tart end of torte spectrum.
Hmmm, if they are one of the companies that only use v2s, sugar cookie v2 and cap custard v2 does get that cakey/tart taste, it just needs like 4 weeks.
If I may suggest dividing the thread by submission/discussion like /r/photoshopbattles and /r/WritingPrompts does.
I assume it's a standard automod feature.
Very excited to participate in this. I've already ordered a bottle of Titan as well as some potential ingredients. While I doubt I'll get the recipe right, as I have no experience with peach/nectarine or apricot, I'm sure I'll be able to mix up something tasty regardless. I'll be sure to post my various flavor testings as I pursue a solid clone
Awesome, I'm excited to see someone so into this. I'm going to break a two-year streak of not buying juice in order to get some Titan myself, and maybe pick up a couple of their other juices while I'm at it.
What are your thoughts on FLV Ginger Peach being a potential ingredient? I believe the flavor came out about a month before Titan(at least I'm guessing based off the earliest reviews of Titan), maybe a bit more. It's possible that BDV was sent some early, as vendors I've heard often are. Currently Bull City is out of the flavor, and I only really order from them, but when they get some in I'll potentially be ordering some to give a go. I can't really find any notes or reviews on the flavor, but if I get some I'll be sure to do my own review.
I can't say because I've tried neither Titan (I will be ordering some tomorrow though) nor FLV Ginger Peach. But, I think it was smart of you to check to see if it was even possible for it to be in there. Peach would certainly fit right in to an apricot/nectarine profile, and /u/tranceinate said in this thread that he thinks FLV's regular Peach tastes halfway between a peach and a nectarine. So there are good reasons to think it might be very well worth a shot. I like CAP Gingerbread as a possibility too because the bready aspect of it would fit in with a graham cracker base. It seems like it would be worth it to taste some Titan, taste some standalone FLV Ginger Peach, and taste some CAP Gingerbread and see if one can confirm or rule out either of those as the gingery bit.
What a great fucking idea/thread
/u/ID10-T Couple of questions. When is our final recipe due and where do we post it?
It's never really "due" but on the 15th of April I'll pick an MVP from this challenge for small prize and start a new monthly clone challenge, so I suppose you could say April 15. It will be awesome if someone actually nails a clone in one month. But even if no one does, all the comments in this will still be around to serve as a reference for anyone who wants to keep trying or for someone who comes along in the future and wants to give it shot. Or for someone who feels like being helpful to link to when it gets asked for in the clone request thread. That's pretty cool, right?
If you have a clone recipe, or even a recipe based on Titan or on Blue Dot's description of Titan, or anything else along those lines, post it right here (as well as anywhere else you want to post it, of course). If you are making progress on one and want to chronicle it as you go along, you could edit your comments, make new comments, reply to yourself, whatever you want. It's a little chaotic but I kinda like it like that, sort of free and loose. If it gets to be too much we might post one of those [all discussion under this comment - top level posts should only be recipes] comments next time around.
u/id10-t, who ended up winning this?
Explained here. TLDR; /u/BlueDotVapors themselves did. They were magnanimous.
As far as actual clone recipes, I haven't seen one come out of it. But, I have six versions steeping. My first one was off, but not in a way that convinced me I needed to add, remove, or replace any ingredients, so the versions I have steeping now just use the same five ingredients at different %'s. I might post all six in the May monthly recipe thread that goes up on Monday in case anyone wants to follow along, unless one of the other recipes I've been working on comes together in time for that.
What if we organized a monthly clone contest? People could enter the month before, have a small number of contestants (5?10?) Those people get sent a 30 ml bottle of whatever juice they're supposed to be cloning, winner gets a gift card to one of the DIY vendors.
I know I'd be willing to put up $10 a month toward it.
Thought about that but it makes it a straight-up cutthroat competition similar to the DIYorDIE one I just survived and takes away the working together as a community & sharing ideas aspect. Also raises the question of who will be the judges and what their qualifications are.
I do plan on a small "token of appreciation" prize for the MVP of this monthly challenge thread, though. So far ideas for that include giving the MVP a choice of: Custom flair in this sub, a month of reddit gold, or one flavor of his or her choosing from one of the DIY vendors (not to exceed $3). Do you have any other ideas for small prizes that I might be able to provide by myself, without anyone else having to put up money for it?
Love this! Seeing people efforts and takes of just one juice is a great idea. Maybe people could comment with a percentage of the resemblance to the flavour, so for a close match it would be 99% but for a way off one it would be 20%
-
Honey (SOL) 0.5%
-
Ginger (SOL) 0.3%
-
Apricot (INW) 1.5%
-
Nectarine (TFA) 3%
-
Sugar Cookie (CAP) 3%
-
Apple Pie (FA) 2%
-
Acetyl Pyrazine (5%) 0.5%
While I love them seperately, I'm not sure how this Apricot/Nectarine combo would work together. Still sounds like a nice start, could probably use some cream too but nothing too rich or creamy I think. Maybe 2% FA Custard.
Edit: This is just what the profile inspires me. I've never tried the original juice. If I'm not too lazy I'll report back with notes and or tweaks.
This is profile recipe and not an actual clone attempt, yes?
Yes sorry I'll edit that in. I just saw your bold edit and I think this is indeed the only way to get these threads going, I've actually been thinking about proposing such a thing for a while now. A new flavor profile to work on together every month sounds pretty fun.
I think FA cardamom may work well as "a hint of ginger" at 0.5-0.75%
0.5 is a lot of FA Cardamom! Change that to 0.2 to 0.4% and I would be very inclined to agree with you. FA Cardamom can be quite gingery depending on what you mix it with.
Maybe I got a weak bottle then. Or I don't taste it as strongly as you do.
Candied ginger is where I get stumped haha I keep wanting to use ginger ale lmao
Have you tried CAP Gingerbread?
> ale Not for a candy, I wouldn't be able to match getting candy from a yeasty/doughy. The Honey/Ginger mix a few recipes up seems promising. I was going to recommend .25% addition of Ginger, but the "Candied".. to anyone whos tried it.. Candied in what variety.
Yeah, but get this. Candied ginger is just ginger with a little sugar coating. It's not actually candy. CAP Gingerbread has some bread notes to it so it couldn't pass of candied ginger on top of just some fruit. No way. But mixed in with whatever other ingredients are being described as a torte pastry? I think it could easily work. The bread mixes with the other bready stuff and then you have what left? Sweetened ginger.
I like this...ordering titan
edit 1: 10ml zero Nic 50/50 cost $6.98 shipped edit 2: my half assed attempt all tfa
-
Apricot 2.5%
-
Nectarine 2.5%
-
Cinnamon Danish Swirl 2%
-
Graham Cracker Clear 2%
-
Ginger Ale 1 drop/30ml
Similar profile but not a very good clone. Sorry I couldn't be more help here.
Any thoughts on what it would need to be a better clone?
Different apricot and nectarine. That combo of tfa was off. Bakery notes where close. I don't want to speculate on what manufacturer it could be but I guess I helped ruled out cap apricot, tfa apricot and tfa nectarine. I didn't really get any ginger. I feel like that aspect was just the fruits playing well together. Actually, now that I think about it I'm on the fence about tfa apricot. With a different nectarine it might be a player.
Any other pollocks here? Sounds like a Kolatchkie (sp) to me.
Tired to google it, failed at spelling Kolatchkie. Kolacky? Usually, it's apricot filling inside a sweetish crescent roll pastry gimmick, with powedered sugar and ginger sprinkled on top. The internet, however, disagrees.
I think you mean Polacks, and kolache. But I think they're more of a Czech thing than a Polish thing. Some Czech bakeries in Texas are famous for them.
http://www.wideopencountry.com/10-best-places-get-incredible-texas-kolaches/
Well, after trying Titan, it's very similar to Amalfi, a juice I've spent plenty of time attempting to recreate. So, I took my best Amalfi iteration, threw a few changes at it, and fresh, it seems like it's going in the right direction. Not a dead-nuts clone, but very delicious (to me anyhow).
https://alltheflavors.com/recipes/37864
Well, don't know if anyone is still following this, but while I love the juice posted above, it's not a clone. It fits the profile, but I think I can do better. I mixed a batch with
FA Apricot - 1.25%
INW Apricots - 0.5%
CAP Gingerbread - 2.25%
FA Almond - 0.75%
FA Tanger (Mandarin) - 0.75%
JF Yellow Cake - 1.5%
After a few days I may throw 0.25% AP in there, but this is a fresh batch based off my previous recipe. Also fighting with the thought of 0.25%-0.5% Meringue...
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