So I've seen quite a few recipes, both here and on elr that recommend leaving the cap off to steep for a while. The purpose is to mellow the flavors because they would be overwhelming otherwise. Isn't this just evaporating some of the flavors you put in? If so what is the purpose of deliberately adding high amount of flavors simply to evaporate away? Wouldn't adding lower percentage work the same without all the waste?
Because there are a lot of people who don't know what they're doing when they put these recipes out.
Well wait a minute here. Sometimes the "wrong" way for an artform turns out to be just a different way to do things that has to have it's parameters pushed harder for the positive effect to happen.
Look at champagne in the wine making industry, look at distorted guitars in the music industry, look at cubism in art. All started out as the "wrong" way to do things because they were originally mistakes, then someone walked by said "hmmmm, I kinda like that, let's make it worse!".
I've never heard the idea to mix overflavoring with breathe steeping. I mean it makes sense to me. Put too much, then use the tatic that overcuts so it comes out even. Maybe it would speed steep certain concentrates.
Remember that right now recipe development is at a total standstill, nobody has come up with any new methods for modifying the taste of the concentrates. The only thing you can do is find a new method and make it fast, easy, & accessible, then overtime all of the community finds this new method as the norm.
Yes, but those examples can't be proven with chemistry. Mixing can. By leaving open the bottle, you're losing mostly small volatiles, which results in a very base-heavy mix. On top of that, the juice takes on water from the air when it's not sealed, and it can make the flavor stale and muted(this is the actual VG, not flavors, so even overflavored juices will end up stale and almost musty.) If there was a way to control the amount of small volatiles being released, and allow the larger volatiles to be released in the same ratio, then this would be a viable practice. Until we find out how to do that, this is objectively wrong.
Never say "objectively wrong" in terms of art. We don't know the aim of certain things, look at absurdist humor. That's objectively wrong but still funny.
I'm wondering about putting a bottle with no cap in a large sealed airtight container cleaned previously with rubbing alcohol to dry it out. So the volitiles go into the container, but only absorbs water from inside the container which was dryed out, so it only gets a very small amount of moisture.
Or don't add the VG. Let the flavors stale in the hotbox, then add the vg in afterwards.
You speak a lot of chemistry and it all makes sense, but I've never seen what actual process happens to flavors to make them mature during the steeping process. It seems almost a bit of a mystery. We should know these things.
I can guarantee you that no premium juice manufacturer "open bottle" steeps their juice.... or any of the other funky methods of steeping (heat steep, ultrasonic cleaners, crockpots, etc.). And those people have ISO clean rooms at their disposal.... That should at least ring a bell in your head to the validity of those wacky steep methods.
If I ever see a recipe posted that states any more information regarding steeping other than a recommended time "best after 2 weeks", "good as a shake & vape", etc.; I won't even bother mixing it because I know their shits just plain not dialed in.
Now being totally uneducated on this subject... just from an observation of mixing 100s of bottles of juice... have you ever mixed some juice up, and seen those little crystallized things form and stick towards the top of the bottle in certain mixes?
Its like they want to escape but have nowhere to evaporate to...I feel like they would dissolve into the air instead of sticking to the top...and tbh i dont even know what it is... i shake it and it gets thrown back into the mix...
fuck it... i sound like im high...lol...let me stop here...maybe im onto something, maybe im not...
This is the flavour that has recrystallised. Yes, it does want to escape the bottle, since flavourings are volatile compounds. And that's the whole point of why are you getting the same answer from all of the more advanced mixers -- don't open steep your liquid since you're just evaporating the flavour. Put less flavour in the first place, instead of putting more and evaporating it prior to that.
When you need to boil 3L of water, you don't put in 4.5L in the pan and then wait for 1.5L to evaporate, correct? You just put in 3L straight, and then put in your ingredients before your water has evaporated.
Shaking the bottle is homogenising the liquid again. I assume you store in a fridge, correct? You should stop doing that.
I always thought this idea was dumb.
If the argument was to evaporate the ethyl alcohol then just let it steep like you normally would.
Some do it because the flavor is very floral. A better idea is to put less flavor in the mix and not just leave the cap off to let the aroma molecules escape the bottle to, in theory, have the same outcome as just lowering the flavor percentages.
Would it be arguable to say that doing TFA Strawberry (Ripe) 5%, letting it steep as normal for 4 weeks and doing TFA Strawberry (Ripe) 20% and letting it breathe steep for 1 week might be similar, but still different in certain ways.
In my experience if it's too floral leaving the cap off isn't going to magically make it go away. A lot of those other notes that make up the fruit are going to disappear leaving you with a floral mix that barely tastes like a strawberry.
I've been asked to link the recipes here. Sorry, I've spent a few weeks reading through hundreds of recipes both here and on ELR, I can't off the top of my head recall exactly which ones they were.
That's why I asked about it in general. I know that there have been quite a few with percentages in the high teens or even over 20%.
It's not like I'm calling out anyone in particular or anything, I was honestly just wondering if using lower percentage would achieve the same result.
People mix way too strong.
I've seen recipes for 20%+. It is insanity. Maybe unless you're using a really low quality device in which you can barely taste anything at all. In an RDA though... hell no. Most of mine have been something like 5-8%.
No, I get the alcohol evaporation thing. I mean like juices with a high percentage of flavors. For example a recipe calls for a really high percentage of strawberry ripe, then recommend leaving the cap off for several days to tone down the strawberry. And yes strawberry is a bad example as it frequently fades, but you get what I mean I hope?
I don't think any of us in the last 2 years are passing around recipes like that. But prove me wrong if someone is doing that.
- cough * he said ELR * cough cough *
Because some of the flavors are sharp or acrid until they oxidize, which leaving the cap off helps precipitate.
Strawberry Ripe is one of those for me. I can't stand it fresh, but if I mix it to taste for a shake and drip, it'll be weak within a few days and require a bit more added, whereas I can increase the amount I prefer up front, and wait a couple weeks for it to steep out a bit, mellowing the overall strawberry flavor.
Because they are crazy. I mix some flavors overly strong and let the flavor fall out a bit just because mixing them just right, the flavor would be gone after a week (mango is a flavor I mix overly strong like that because after a week all you get is a good smell and no taste). But I don't see any reason to do it with the lid off... the flavor falls out just fine with the lid on... Usually it only falls out to a certain extent so like... one mixed perfect might be tasteless after a week but one mixed too strong might taste good after a week or two and maintain tasting good for a few months before it gets flavorless.
Obviously only some flavors fall out that hard though. Other flavors seem to last forever and dominate a mix after a few weeks which is weird.
a lot of the medicine flower/ lotus flavors seem to be kind of like that... they taste good in small amounts but flavor falls out. mix them overly strong and they taste like perfume for a couple weeks, but after that they are just right.
Wow, it seems there's several schools of thought on how steeping affects the overall finished product. I didn't think this post would attract so much attention.
For those wanting links, here's one I found last night while mixing up some more juice. It's not a high percentage recipe but it does recommend leaving the cap off for a week.
http://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/11224