Hey guys, I'm curious to hear some real world experiences from members who have been mixing for several years. I'd like to focus specifically on the expiration expectations for Nicotine suspended in PG, and flavorings.
The general information to be found everywhere indicates that nicotine in PG will last at most 2 years in the freezer in a glass bottle with not much air space, and flavorings will last at most 2 years at room temperature while protected from light.
Has anyone been able to keep either of these for significantly longer than 2 years without them going bad? How can you tell when a flavor has gone bad? How can you tell when your nic juice has gone bad?
Thanks in advance for your answers, it will greatly help me plan my next order.
Rule of thumb for me to sum it up... if it tastes bad or smells funky, I pitch it. I've had flavorings for several years and they still perform the same. NIC I haven't had long enough to attest to that. When/if it gets harsh, I buy fresh. I do store my excess NIC in the freezer now as I did notice my NIC turning harsh before I had a chance to use it all. (I also use VG suspended NIC though... so there's that)
The answer is dependent on storage.
I've got 3 year old nic in the freezer that's just as perfect now as it was when I got it (The bottle I took out last week and am mixing with now is dated March 2014)
Kurt on ECF (who is a chemist and works with Dr F) was doing his own testing/experiment. Last I knew, he was over 7 years with freezer nic - tested same as ever.
All my flavors are kept in amber glass vials/bottles with p/c caps and stored in boxes in a closet in my basement (avg temps 45-65). Some of those are 2-3 years old, they're fine. If they've degraded at all, it's not enough to be noticeable to me. The only thing I really keep an eye on are some citrus as those can "spoil" but hasn't happened yet.
edit: If you want to read Kurt's last posting on this, it's here --> https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/long-term-nic-storage.740445/
No one can give you a definite answer because there are way too many variables that could and will affect the shelf life of your flavorings. Just face the fact that your flavorings have a shelf life, perhaps one year at most and replace 'em when they start to taste off.
I'd say the one year shelf life mostly applies to flavors comprised of smaller volatiles; my 2 year old bavarian cream, graham cracker, and vanilla swirl are leagues better than my fresh bottles.
But your comment is a great summary for nicotine products.
Not sure what's going on with my Bavarian/Graham Cracker and Vanilla Swirl then. It turned dark brown and I noticed it starts to lose its flavour.
His questions were: Has anyone been able to keep either of these for significantly longer than 2 years without them going bad? How can you tell when a flavor has gone bad? How can you tell when your nic juice has gone bad? All of those questions can be answered definitively...
> Has anyone been able to keep either of these for significantly longer than 2 years without them going bad?
Again, this question has no definite answer. There are so many variables that the outcome would be different every time.
> How can you tell when a flavor has gone bad?
Vape it? lol.
> How can you tell when your nic juice has gone bad?
Harshness. Oxidation of nic typically leads to darker nicotine too.
> All of those questions can be answered definitively...
Ironic because you haven't given a single definitive answer yourself.
You have some poor reading comprehension I guess. Question 1 is a yes or no answer, and there have been several people who responded saying that yes they have been able to keep some things longer than 2 years. That's a definite answer. Are you here just to troll people or what?
Here is what you are doing:
Q: Has anyone ever had a situation happen? A: Yes I have had that situation happen.
thedirtyprojector: LIES! It can not be said whether someone has ever had this happen or not, you cannot give that definite answer, I defy you!
> Again, this question has no definite answer. There are so many variables that the outcome would be different every time.
You can still make a totally well educated guess if you lock those different variables into normal parameters. I mean are you saying that nobody knows at all and theirs no way to get it into a simple range? I mean that's....just not true.
> How can you tell when a flavor has gone bad?
> Vape it? lol.
That's kind of unreasonable. I mean most situations where you need to know if food is bad the way to tell isn't usually "Eat it" because that shit could be bad and negatively affect you. In addition you have sight, smell, touch.
You have THOOOOOOOOUSANDS of ways to get information from that mystery "x" liquid and tell whats going on there. No point being hostile towards someone whose asking questions to the community. I mean I searched for already shared information on telling if flavors have gone "bad" and what "bad" means, and it seems to me that there hasn't been anybody yet who compiled that information. Why the hostility?
How can you tell when your nic juice has gone bad?
> Harshness. Oxidation of nic typically leads to darker nicotine too.
Doesn't help if you don't want to vape nicotine. There are other clues that can give you an idea if nicotine has gone bad... why not mention those?
> All of those questions can be answered definitively...
> Ironic because you haven't given a single definitive answer yourself.
Normally when someone asks questions, they don't give the answers to those questions. That's how questions usually work.
I've got flavors that are over 2 years old. They are kept out of direct sunlight, but not completely in the dark.
Most of the creams, custards and tobacco type flavors have darkened somewhat, and I haven't tasted them side by side with a fresh bottle but they seem to taste ok whenever I've used them.
I do have some fruit flavors that seem to have lost a significant amount of their flavor over time though, but again, I haven't tried it against a fresh bottle to confirm. Or maybe my tastes have just changed in that time, which is quite likely. Maybe I should test some.
I haven't had any flavoring go 'bad' as in off or unpalateable though.
Ha, literally came here to search some information on this as my nicotine keeps going bad.
I'm going to do a post at some point with pictures showing my current workflow for storing/maintaining my nicotine. Mine keeps going bad and at this point I'm about ready to start avoiding vaping nicotine, so I need some hard ways to keep track of if stuff goes bad or not.
My nicotine seems to being bad within about a 4 months. I'm storing it in the fridge in glass bottles with dripper caps, I'm thinking I need to upgrade to 16x amber 15ml boston round glass bottles with a screw on top (no dripper). Mark them with the date I receive them. Mark them with the date I consolidate them. Mark them with the date I start using them.
That way I keep better track of how fresh my nicotine is and how fast it goes bad.
You really shouldn't use bottles with dripper caps. They easily leak juice, which means that they also let quite a lot of air in. I store mine in about 6x 15ml, 2x 60ml and the rest as they come packaged, in amber bottles, the metal cap taped shut (to avoid that anyone accidentally manages to get to them despite all the warnings on the bag and in case of leakage) in my freezer. Then I always have one bottle in the cupboard for immediate usage, and take another 15ml bottle out from the freezer when I run out. Then refill those with the contents of the 60 ml bottles when they run out.
I don't put any expiration dates as they're in the freezer and I'll notice if they start to taste bad and just order more when it comes to that.
I store my nicotine in the freezer in 60ml Boston rounds with polycone caps from bcv (I think that's where I got them, was awhile ago.)
I keep the nic I'm currently using in a 15ml dropper bottle and I top off the storage bottles with a bit of private preserve wine preserving spray (mix of argon, nitrogen, and CO2) I bought on Amazon for like $10 shipped.
I've had this current batch of nic for about a year now and its still pretty much the same as when I bought it.
The 60ml Boston rounds along with the polycone caps looks like the way to go. Wish I could buy additional polycone caps on BCV.
But I guess I was planning on restocking on bottles soon anyways. Need new custom ones.
The general information to be found everywhere indicates that nicotine in PG will last at most 2 years in the freezer in a glass bottle with not much air space
I don't know about the source of that info, but my 18 month old PG nic is still as good as new. I recently titrated a 60ml batch in a glass bottle from Aug 2015, still 100mg/ml.
I don't mind if flavorings have some age, as I keep them in a dark closet when not mixing. Seem ok well past a year.
- Has anyone been able to keep either of these for significantly longer than 2 years without them going bad?
- CLARIFYING QUESTION: What does "going bad" mean?
- How can you tell when a flavor has gone bad?
- CLARIFYING QUESTION: What is meant when someone says a flavor has "gone bad?" At this point it seems as though almost all flavorings don't "go bad" as much as lose potency over time. Their doesn't seem to be any form of "spoiled" flavors.
- How can you tell when your nic juice has gone bad?
- ANSWER: Nicotine doesn't seem to spoil, it only slowly becomes more harsh over time through oxidation.
- SUPPLEMENT: Darker color or a offputting semen smell is a sign that nicotine only might be going or only starting to go harsh. Neither of these are proof and you can have perfectly fine tasting nicotine that has a dark yellow color or smells terribly strong.
No.
PG, VG and Nicotine will last at most of 2 years outside of the freezer.
Freezed, with no oxygen closed in the bottle, they can last indefinitely. We have users around the community that have reported perfect results using that method and 7-10 years of storage.
Flavourings you can't freeze, so they stick with the 2 year shelf life.
Now what will happen after the two years expire? Depends on a lot of things, especially how they were stored.
I recently made a mix with an expired Strawberry Ripe by a month or two. Most delicious strawberry I've ever had.