After reading through countless threads about cream bases, it seems as if everyone is playing with the same few flavors only to still have a cream base that is still somehow lacking.
In reading flavor reviews, I have seen several notes that certain flavors have a potential to be useful in giving cream bases that extra density and creaminess we all strive for. Usually comments follow about people who plan to try it, and no follow up. I also have never seen anyone suggest any of these flavors when someone asks about their cream bases.
I'm hoping to achieve the creamy thickness diacetyl brings, but without it. So far, I have considered JF dulce de leche, INW or TFA vanilla bourbon, FLV greek yogurt, FLV guanabana, FW tres leches, HG irish cream, and a few of the batter flavors and white chocolates.
If anyone has any input on this that could help my bank account that would be super. I guess, really what I asking is, is there a reason none of these are suggested to enhance a base that I don't know about.
Try to find "Diacetyl and Other Alpha-Dicarbonyl Compounds With Special Reference to the Flavor of Butter" by E. A. Prill, N. E. Fabricius and B. W. Hammer -- a dairy industry research paper from the 1930s or so.
It talks about how fucking impossible it was to replace diacetyl back then.
Science hasn't saved us today. 80 years and still no solution.
Edit: the other old paper is called "Studies on Acetylmethylcarbinol and Diacetyl in Dairy Products" by M. B. Michaelian AND B. W. Hammer which is an even older study to troll new flavor scientists 80 years later in their inability to make creamy flavors with other volatiles. Acetylmethylcarbinol is known today as Acetoin.
> "Diacetyl and Other Alpha-Dicarbonyl Compounds With Special Reference to the Flavor of Butter"
Man, I couldn't put this down. A real page-turner. That twist at the end though - it was the butler all along!
You slay me, man.
BTW did you know that heroin's synonym is Diacetylmorphine?
Someone needs to write a scifi ebook to sell on Amazon that revolves around a vape murder-mystery...
Where the hell is Weender lately.
Thanks, I will definitely be reading into this. I feel like I am chasing a unicorn.
The best things that replace the happy feeling of diacetyl end up being worse for us, lol
I haven't had a chance to read your suggestions yet, but I am curious to find out if there is a magical combination of flavor molecules that when combined will give the result I'm searching for. I'm fairly certain the articles you have provided will clear that up for me though.
Which dike-free cream are you trying to spruce up with that list of flavors? I'm not sure all of those are actually missing the diacetyl you're trying to avoid, although it seems likely most are, only TFA is easy to verify.
The FW Tres Leches contains 10-20% sugar syrup and if FW Cake Batter Dip was one of the batter flavors you mentioned, it contains 10-15% fructose. Not great alternatives to diacetyl.
Small amounts of coconut and marshmallow can help with creaminess but it depends on the recipe.
Just basic cream base recipe is what I am after. One that could be versatile. We have played with variations with fa cream fresh, tfa dx sweet cream, FW marshmallow and tfa dx marshmallow, tfa dx Bavarian cream.
From what I was able to find, the ones I mentioned don't have any of the nasties. However, I found no mention of the sugars. Is there some reference you could point me to for that? That would be some very useful information to have.
Also, thanks for the reminder of coconut. I remember reading about how it could add to the thick oily feel.
I am determined to find the unicorn of the creamy bases.
I won't be much help on your journey because I avoid DX and V2 like you intend to avoid diacetyl.
ABDada's reference on concerning flavors
Those flavors you list will thicken up a base, but they are flavors and not just some chemical enhancer, ie FLV Guanabana seems to make your cream seem a bit fuller but also taste like guanabana. I'm definitely team diacetyl, but if you want a cream base to taste like cream you need to restrict yourself to dairy flavors... which happen to be the ones that people are messing around in those cream bases.
I was curious about it because some of the reviews on the flavors mention using at a small percentage could possibly be used to give extra density to cream bases without really adding to the overall flavor. I didn't know if anyone has ever tried it before.
I guess the subtext on that, at least on the reviews I've put out is that "if the flavor doesn't clash with the profile entirely." I think guanabana would definitely work like that, if you wanted some other other fruit to be added to your cream base. I've personally used FLV Greek Yogurt, and it kind of works but it takes the entire thing in a more a yogurt-y direction. The caramels there with probably work as well, but give you some darker caramel sweetness. Not a bad thing most of the time, but takes it away from being a truly neutral cream base.
I see what you mean with not finding a universal cream base.
It's funny you mention the guanabana because that is the one that is high on my list of contenders to be used in my fruit and cream mixes. Mainly I favor tropical fruits and berries. So, if it does add any slight fruit notes in the background I don't thing it would necessarily be a bad thing.
The white chocolate is another. Mainly because I LOVE white chocolate. That is the one I thought might work in an ice cream base. I feel whatever flavor it might add to it would not negatively impact it overall.
I find that TFA Coconut Extra (at small amounts, 0.2 - 0.5%), TFA Whipped Cream and FW Bavarian Cream helps to give that buttery mouthfeel without diacetyl.
I mixed up a few samples using some fa coconut i have laying around to see what happens.
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