Oh my God shut up and mix juice. I swear to God it's like I'm in high school again

I'm not always silent, but when I am, it's because I'm apathetic. I'm just a grown ass man that likes to mix some shit together. I would guess that's why most others are silent. Except the man part. Could be grown ass women too.

What was the intention of this post? The debris from the last one had mostly settled. What was said was said. People made amends. Why did you feel the urge to poke the beehive once more? Maybe your intentions were good but continually trying to go back to something that the majority of the community has already dropped is just silly.

This is the way I look at it.

You have two groups of friends:

Group A: These are your high school buddies. For the most part, this group of friends is nice. You all enjoy the same hobbies and have been hanging out for a long time. You know each other very well. However, there is this asshole named Jared. He was in the same classes as you and your buddies and he does or says something funny every once in a while. Jared also likes to antagonize drama and berates any new comers to the social circle, feeling threatened himself. Jared is socially inept and never grew out of middle school.

Group B: You went to college and found a group of friends that is much more supportive of you and everything you do. Likewise, you support them. This is a group of adults and everyone is welcome to this social circle. However, if someone starts to behave like Jared, they get kicked from the group. He no longer gets invited to parties and no one calls him to tell him where they are eating lunch at today.

Simply said, Reddit is group A.

I love both group of friends, and I'm still going to hang out with my high school buddies, but I generally don't want Jared in my life. He can be ignored, but why put up with him at all if you don't have to? The two groups of friends can even be merged and made better, you just have to get rid of all the Jareds.

In conclusion: Behave like adults. Everyone is here to stop smoking and mix delicious e-liquid. Leave your ego back at /r/madlads or /r/CallOfDuty

Here's my take. Making juice is a lot like making homemade salsa, lasagna, or whatever it is you're making to eat/vape. It's nice to share your recipes so others can enjoy the same thing, or be inspired. In all actuality, you can't technically copyright a recipe, especially when all you're doing is buying consumable products and mixing them together for consumption. It's like trying to mix my Black Velvet with Vlasic pickle juice and then expecting to copyright that mix. It's almost as stupid to me as when the Shine Bros tried copyrighting reaction videos. That's my opinion on that, popular or not, I could give a fuck less if someone wants to go though the legal trouble to mix and sell one of my recipes through their business without giving me a cut. You can't own rights to something you concocted in your kitchen and decided it tasted good. Which is why my recipes will never be bothered with licensing options.

I think it's a bit pretentious to expect people to pay for a cooking or cocktail recipe book just like I think it's pretentious to expect people to pay DoD for content or for information about a flavor they have no ownership or affiliation to. When you think about it, public reviews help mixers as much as they help the company selling the products. Which is why I'm surprised companies selling the flavorings aren't a little more in tune with providing such information to their customers the moment they hit the shelves.

Now, if you believe that this information is valuable enough to pay for, then that's your decision. If you don't agree with the concept, don't pay for it. It's pretty simple, believe me. Obviously some people feel that organized information is worth paying for, much like buying a book on woodworking or model airplanes. Is the information available for free through trial and error or even another knowledgeable person? Very likely. But what's it worth to you to have it compiled neatly in one spot to use at your immediate desire? It's kind of a free market, so if people decide to pay for something, it isn't exactly the sellers problem as long as their customers are satisfied.

I've honestly been really surprised to see that I'm not alone in feeling like the diy scene is heading in a really bad direction. However, I do think a lot of the more recent, vocal criticism has been extremely poorly voiced, and not actually addressing the issues properly. And the manner in which they are voicing opinions is leading to what I can see as real concerns being brushed off.

I've been around the diy scene for quite some time now. Mostly lurking, sometimes throwing in some advice or opinions on other forums (more on that later), but still always keeping an eye on what's going on around the scene. With that said, one of the things I always admired most about the diy community as a whole, and very much in contrast to the modern vaping industry/community at large, was the openness, willingness to work together and share information for the common benefit of the community, and just overall lack of hubris. Spreading your own findings only made others more informed, which in turn helped them help others, and possibly yourself right back. Withholding helpful information seemed like something that would never even cross anyone's mind, as it only served to hurt the community effort.

Over the past year or so however, we've begun to see the rise of sort of "diy personalities", that have gained similar rabid followings to the youtube vaping personalities of today. Along with this seemed to also come the rise of a "so and so's opinion on flavorings, recipes, etc are worth more than yours", and the now hotbed topic of "my opinion is worth money". Along with this has also come websites such as ATF, that while having a nice and more modern layout in some respects, pay walls basic features that are freely available on other sites.

Now, in concept, there technically isn't anything outright wrong with this, but I see where a lot of people, especially those who have been around for a while, have major issues here. I myself feel, and can see where others are seeing, a very bad precedent being set. I can see how people view the focus shifting heavily from a community trying to help each other out without ever a thought of trying to take advantage of each other, to a "fuck you, pay me", or "who are you/ you don't know shit/shut up" attitude. And the wide acceptance of this could easily lead to even more people adopting this approach, and more information being gated off or just not being posted.

Along with monetization of information and these "personalities" being formed, the casual users information is seemingly being pushed away and devalued. Relegating non-widely known mixers knowledge and recipes to mass threads that lack wide viewership, forcing them to pay to have their work added to a repository, etc. I can see how the idea that the community aspect of teaching and learning from each other is being killed, and why people are becoming so upset with how things have been changing.

I don't know. That's just a little bit of what's been stirring in my head for quite a while now. Trying not to write a whole essay or something on it right now, but just say I think a lot of the criticism has some justification, but has been poorly conveyed. I'm exhausted and tired as all hell, so apologies if none of that is even coherent.

Don't know what happened. Don't really care.

The fuck cares?

I'll break my (relative) silence for just a moment to say thanks to all those contributors new and old that push this craft forward. It seems to be the case with many communities that start small and begin to grow that there are temporary moments of personal conflict along the way. I appreciate the knowledge I've been given free of charge from the members of this group. I think it's a stretch to say that the entire community is in danger in light of a few disparaging remarks made between colleagues :)

Keep doing what you love, people.

Used to get really annoyed that noone read the rules and sidebar. These days I just read threads and comment when I have something useful/funny to add. Simple as that.

Drawing attention to these things is worse than the "drama" itself as it draws everyone in.

Well said. To be honest; I don't understand why this crap is going on either, and as we're all adults, I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to push aside any pettiness and just get along. Or ignore anyone that tries to annoy you in any way.

🤷🏻‍♀️

This subs pretty good in terms of being drama free, the only time I see any on here it's involving DOD.

Some people don't like the way they conduct themselves and have expressed that in topics relating to DOD. Who cares, that's life.. people have different opinions. Take the drama queen posts back to DOD Facebook group and leave this sub for mixing.

I don't do drama, it's unproductive. That's why I rarely stick my nose in those posts. I'm here to learn and get inspiration. While I'm here I like to help out when I can.

The drama around DIYorDie is about hype and fear of missing out. When it comes to money, I get pissy when someone steals recipes and makes millions off them, but $3 a month for a few hundred subscribers at the most isn't going to make you a fortune after expenses. It might give you a small reward for all the effort you're putting in and a small reward for contributors. Getting upset about that is ridiculous.

I don't subscribe to any of it and I don't take sides, but I will recognize when someone is putting in a lot of effort and making large contributions to the community. A community that really needs to stick together against regulations and a misinformed public, not bicker amongst themselves. If you want to support DIYorDie or ATF or any other service, be my guest. Don't come here bitching and whining that some things cost money, we don't care. It's voluntary!

I wouldn't say it's hurting the sub. Everyone here that has been here is aware that every so often, someone tries to create a bit of drama through posting about something and whining about it. Stupid people might leave, the good ones will always stay. The Elders (yeah I'm dubbing us the Elders, regardless of how old we are IRL. I think it's a cool name) will be sticking around. You guys don't have anything to worry about that.

http://i.imgur.com/eP9GxxW.jpg

is it strange that I do not know any of the drama that peeps be speaking about?

What am I missing, did someone recently say they are leaving? I feel the same way, none of it bothers me. I love the community and everyone in it.

I'm brand new to DIY and this sub, but I couldn't agree more with you and many of the comments here. It all filters down (my adv is a variant of Rhondite, modified with other information I found here) and many of the fantastic articles on DIYORDIE are open or find there way out as many people copy/paste the information. In fact, I would argue it's a BENEFIT to wait for the information they write on to be tested by other, more experienced mixers, and the best results always percolate to the top. I feel as though the silent majority feel similar to me, we love the information the spread... however many "pro" mixers (at the forefront of mixing... those being paid to find the next best thing) don't need/desire positive posts/feedback about something they created 6 months to 2 years ago.

What's been happening?

I can't even tell what exactly it is you're talking about. U VAPIN METH MANNNNN

I don't give a fuck about all your high school bullshit, I'm just here to find good recipes man.

I care so little about the drama that I'm not even going to post in this thread. I'm headed for the mixing station.

Wait...

Damn

Less drama, more Kayfun talk.

I appreciate this sub and every one of its contributing members, lurkers, and otherwise. Fuck the haters and their theatrics. :)

I'm here to learn to mix. I'm here to get tips, save myself some ramp up time from stuff others have learned.

Mostly I'm here to save money but that's not happening based on the amounts I've spent on flavorings, glass dropper bottles, and horrid mixes I've done that proved unvapable.

As a result without even realizing what I was doing I gave DIYorDie $9 of my hard earned cash for a 3 month sub.

Result? Useless. You can't see what it looks like to be a member without being a member. It was touted as having a full flavor note database. It doesn't. It's not even faintly close to complete, nor is it searchable in the common sense of the word. It's a crappy Wordpress site that looks pretty but is not set up as a research tool as it's a wordpress site not a database with a web front end.

The info there from what I can tell is more or less a guy's opinions sporadically written over time. The magazine thing is more of the same and hardly searchable and you (unlike how it was advertised) can't see everything his ever written.

In my mind an utter waste of $9 but hey I learned something. Just cause a guy leaned some shit and came up with some mixes doesn't mean he has a clue about useful web design. Lesson learned? Stick with the masses out here who share what they've learned with each other.

I use ELR for my recipes. I looked at the for pay one, and its tools weren't nearly as well thought out or developed as ELR. Granted ELR has a few quirks as well, but it's a very good tool for research. Because of that I've donated to his site because I appreciate what he's doing and want to support that.

Outside of that? I'm mostly looking to get better flavors in my vape without paying the ripoff prices at the local B&Ms.

If I want drama all I gotta due for the next several years is turn on the news. It'll be chock full of that shit.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled white noise about all things flavory and mixxy.

I don't know about you guys, and I know it's a bit controversial round these parts but I personally believe #DoDLivesMatter