Preface: Today I'm going to tear apart my first order and maybe we can learn something from it.
Here's some jams you filthy savages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3xEO69D4gc&index=1&list=PL-t_kPpD5FXma6yMusl1EMVH7sWc73xLW
I do not enjoy spreadsheets or telling people what to do. However I do enjoy helping people save money, and quitting smoking. So if you see me telling people what to buy: I don't mean it in a condescending way. I want you to be able to make banging recipes and I want ppl to be able to help you make recipes as well in the weekly suggest a recipe for my flavors thread
Furthermore if my response time isn't immediate: consider that a compliment that you are a proficient mixer. I try to prioritize the new ppl that need help first, then comes jokes n stuffs laters. I still love y'all though
Critique
Here's the first order I ever placed..
http://imgur.com/a/XgMEZ it was not good.
Shortly after I had to make a 2nd and 3rd order, and those were also not good.
The flavors themselves were not bad I just did no research and bought random flavors that sounded good. Trial n Error = Time n Money.
Here are some mistakes I made and things I learned:
- Picked out no recipes/didnt have specific ideas for my own recipes other than a boba's bounty/jango clone
- I literally went through the vendor's entire TFA catalogue saying, "hmmm that looks good."
- Don't do that
- I had read no flavor reviews
- Just bc you like strawberries does not mean you will like every brands artificial strawberry flavor
- Find some reviews from ppl who know what they are talking about.
- Do not order while intoxicated or tired.
- make a cart, take/save a screenshot, wait 12-24hours, and evaluate your options/cart before committing to a large flavor order.
- Not enough variety of flavors/too much of one flavor. I could have got way more 10ml sample size than 30ml bottles of flavor.
- The flavors I got were not very versatile.
- I had a difficult time creating recipes without buying more flavors. More orders = more money
- Bought useless gear
- Bought shitty 3ml ldpe bottles (three ml not a typo)
- Bought syringes when I already had a suitable scale.. wtf bro?
- Why would I need a stir rod for 3ml bottles? Just shake it
- Not enough glass 30ml bottles.
- I could have always mixed 1-30ml in a 30ml bottle but you aint mixin 30ml into a 3ml bottle. Buy glass and reuse them
- VG nicotine was pointless (for me @ 50/50). PG Nicotine is much easier to work with.
- I also could have got a higher concentration of nicotine if I wanted more than 60-70% VG, and a better nicotine vendor.
- Not enough VG
- seriously you will be throwing this stuff away and going through the rest like candy. It also drives the shipping costs up so buy a decent amount (1L or gallon), and spend that money you are saving on shipping for: more VG, bottles, flavors, PG, or better nicotine.
- Too much PG. I planned on making 50/50 so I bought an equal amount of PG to VG I think. A better strategy would be to buy ~25-30% the amount of VG you are buying (if wanted)
I could have spent ~45$ way better than I did.
Items I purchased effectively:
- Bought sample sizes of some flavors
- Bought a higher nicotine concentration than I intended to use
- because it will be diluted.
- Purchased VG and PG separately
- Thick needles for VG
- 20ml syringe for VG (if going by volume it's easy)
I spent ~25$ "better". Not great though
After that my orders consisted of me trying to buy more flavors, more bottles, and small amounts of VG/PG. That really drives the cost up for shipping if you aren't hitting that free point.
Short term/Financially my initial reward did not outweigh the potential risks I took (financially). It was still worth it in the long run because I stuck with it and now have delicious all day vapes. My price per bottle slowly dropped as my orders/recipes got better (direct correlation). So it's not too late to still save some money.
Recap:
Do:
- buy sample sizes of flavors
- buy vg in bulk [1liter or gallon]
- buy nicotine in PG (if yo dont mind 50/50-80/20 VG/PG) at a higher strength than you intend to use (for dilution)
- buy plenty of 30ml glass bottles for your recipes (10-20+)
- buy versatile flavors
- research flavors and preferably recipes before buying
- have an idea of how you want to use said flavors
Do not:
- buy unnnecessary gear (syringes if you have a scale, stir rods, small bottles, etc)
- buy too much flavor if you are not sure you enjoy it
- come to my parties if you didn't like selections from my mixtape.
- I don't just give that stuff to ppl (joke)
Conclusion: Lets pretend you did make a shitty 1st order or bad joke. I'd recommend just ignoring it (the joke and the order) then checking the sidebar for the great guides and info we have in there. More of my advice is in the first one
- https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/5fu9ji/logical_increments_of_diy_gear_alpha/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/wiki/first_order_flavors
- https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/wiki/diy_beginners_guide
Bonus: Here are all my recipes, the mega tobacco tasting note thread, and sauce.
- https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/5am6a3/november_2016_recipe_thread/d9rs5uu/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/CloudCollective/comments/3pqhc5/workgroup_tobacco_reviews/
- sauce https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/wiki/index/flavor_reviews
Should have read the sidebar my man.
Awesome tips! Luckily I avoided nearly all the negatives thanks to lurking and searching here. Even as a novice mixer I can't help but stress how much easier mixing by weight is compared to mixing by volume! I thought by volume would be easier to start with, but after receiving a scale in a secret Santa trade I've found it ridiculously easier by weight.
i think so far the i've only made two small mistakes. the first was ordering 70/30 6mg pre-mixed. the second was buying a 30ml of tfa Belgian waffle. i've used it once. once.
>make a cart, take/save a screenshot, wait 12-24hours, and evaluate your options/cart before committing to a large flavor order.
i do this for each and every order. i consider it a battle royale to see who makes it into this order. i scroll through my recipe database to see what flavors i want to play around with, look through the monthly recipe thread for new stuff, and check out atf for recipes i've seen in-between orders.
i look at what sounds like i'll enjoy it first, then check for recipes that people whose taste i trust have reviewed it favorably then i go by which ones have the highest ratio of flavors i already own vs ones i'd need to buy. THEN i head to the flavor wiki and from there i'll start winnowing flavors down to what makes the most sense vs what can wait. the stuff that i don't get this order goes into a wishlist to fight it out with the other flavors next order.
with this method i haven't wasted too much money although i did spend ~$20 discovering i don't really like the bakery profile so far, which is fucking ridiculous because i love to bake IRL.
> 30ml of tfa Belgian waffle
Haha! me too and it is one of the worst flavors I've ever tasted. Somehow I ended up with two 60ml bottles of FA Cookie
If you don't mind me asking, what didn't you like about TFA Belgian Waffle? I've tried it as a standalone, and it definitely had a strong maple taste, but when I've mixed it with Strawberry Ripe I actually found it pretty tasty!
I know this comment is a month old, but I bought 80/20 3mg premixed nicotine. I figured it could just add flavoring to that in whatever ml bottle I wanted and be golden. Am I wrong?
you're not wrong. you're going to end up with slightly less than 3mg/ml nic and a higher pg ratio but other than that there's no problem doing that.
I actually found syringes to be waaaay more work the reward. I use a 120ml wide-opening squeezy bottle (I think it was for salt solution to begin with) to fill my 50ml bottles.
Yes, I use 72mg PG, Vg nic is pointless, I also vape 50/50.
I've seen the last line said before, why is VG NIC pointless? I always prefer max VG juice, so why wouldn't eliminating all the PG I can be bad? I know flavors are in PG. I also know PG is a better flavor carrier and doesn't require as long a steep.
I used to do some basic flavor mixing in around 2010-2011, it was mostly stuff like, cherry limeade, strawberry cream, nothing terribly complex, but we didn't do super high VG so much back then.
OK, I'm rambling, LOL.
You are 100% correct with the max Vg, BUT, for the majority of 70/30 people 72mg PG base is more than enough, even with the pg flavors.
BUT if you really want as high a Vg ratio as you possibly can, Vg nic base is the only way to go :)
Go on ramble, I like rambles!
Can't be bothered to look through here to see if anyone has said it already, but one of my biggest mistakes on my first order was ordering from TFA/TPA directly. Unsure if they're still doing it, but all of their flavours came to me in these like, 7ml glass vials that were a fucking nightmare to work with, even before I was mixing by weight.
Don't order from TFA/TPA directly.
How exactly is pg nic easier to work with? I find VG is easier because I don't have to transfer it into a dropper bottle. It pours slower than pg so I can just pour it in out of the big bottle, and no need for syringes.
The viscosity is a major turn off for many, especially those that freeze their nicotine solution.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/599akx/nicotine_questions/d96o98f/
Also 1ml roughly equals a gram so for 30ml of 10mg/ml thats 300mg or ~3ml or g's of 100mg nicotine. I can do the math in my head, and all my calculations are base 10 if I make 2.5-5-10-15mg/ml
It's all preference though :D
I've used 3 combos of nicotine. 100VG 50/50 and 100PG and I don't know if it's a mental thing but I feel like 100VG has a smoother taste in the final mix. 100PG seems like it retains a rougher taste more of the peppery taste I got from it. I really don't want to claim this as any kind of fact because I don't have enough samples under my belt to be sure. But it seemed that way that 100VG is smoother so I stuck with that for my larger purchase more recent.
I made one mistake. Buying nicotine from vapewild because it was the cheapest I found at the time. That shit has a purple tint.
I think I did everything else right tho. I was tight on cash at the time so I methodically and cautiously planned all my purchases.
1-5 is absolute gospel. In that particular order.
With respect to 3, I'd also add hunger -- shopping for flavors works the same way as shopping for food -- Flavor shopping while hungry will only add to your frustration later (unless you're OCD and buy everything for one or more specific recipes -- very few flavors (especially if you haven't read any reviews) are great standalone).
In addition to leaving my cart open for, literally, days, I maintain a duplicate of my cart list in Google sheets for redundancy, in the event of browser/computer/power failure.
edit: Also, if you buy bulk VG/PG, buy some 8-16 oz HDPE or LDPE squeeze bottles -- this will make your life easier later, mixing by weight or volume.
Great post! I did pretty pretty bad on my first order, it was from wizard labs.
I somehow managed to order two different dulce de leche flavors and not a single flavor that wasn't tfa . I thought I was being very smart because I could just read the constantly updated what can I make with exclusively tfa flavors thread on the sidebar I'd be coming out way ahead of you idiots.
Sweet post homie! You ever seen Yheti live? He throws the hell down. Cool to see such a low key artist get some love here
Thank you and haha noI havent.
I have seen tincup bleep bloop run dmt salva and uz though haaha we into all that space jesus type shit :D
yheti live sounds pretty dope. EDIT o shit hes live in FEB.
http://www.dayfornight.io/ thats the last party i went to since like hurricane patricia where the festival got fukt. We got to see aphex twin and all this crazy shit.
I dont mean that in a rude or bragging way. Those events are like really fun for me, it's like a highschool reunion but with ppl I actually want to see.
Im tryna go see sts9 cut chemist opiuo father and wax taylor next month
hbu any plans for 2017?
Already have my tickets for Okeechobee and Electric Forest so far. Probably gonna look into something for the end of the summer as well. Other than that, just local shows. Boston's been getting some sweet bass mucus recently. That's dope you gotta see aphex twin, that must've been nuts
>Boston's been getting some sweet bass mucus recently.
hahaha sounds sick af
dat lineup doe:
- Pretty lights: tryna ssee that dude at euphoria
- bassnectar: ive seen him 2 or 3 times
- saw lettuce and nightmares on wax: that shit was legit
- haven't seen ac slater but got to see jack beats .
damn so many parties i can and cant remember
Just a clarifying question: If I plan on mixing mostly 60/40 vg/pg mixes should I buy PG based nicotine and then about 4 times as much vg as pg? like, 2 liters of VG and then 500ml of PG?
Thank you so much for this post! I'm getting ready to place my first order and this is very helpful. As have your other getting started posts. :)
I'd say go for 1L of PG if you are getting 2L VG.
To make 30ml of 10mg/ml from 100ml/mg nicotine solution i use:
- 3ml of 100mg/ml Nicotine (PG) + ~1-2ml of flavor (PG) = ~4-5ml of PG
- Then add roughly 10ml or g of PG to a 30ml bottle.
- So that's roughly a 1/3 the amount of extra PG I add.
It depends what nicotine lvl you buy and your desired strength.
Maybe this post can give you an idea of how much pg from nicotine you will be adding to your mix
https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/599akx/nicotine_questions/d96o98f/
So if you need clarification i'll need what nicotine lvl you intend to buy and your desired strength
thanks and youre welcome btw (
You ever thought of writing up "A new mixers first order for" thread? Do one for each type. So do a Fruits and cream/yogurt, then bakery and so on? The main reason I haven't jumped into DIY yet is because every time I find a few recipes I like and go to make an order, I can never get everything from one place! Everyone is always sold out of something!
Edit: I did win the VapeWild DIY thing so I did sorta get into it now. Seems really easy but that is with mixing by volume since I didn't wanna drop 35 on a scale.
>You ever thought of writing up "A new mixers first order for" thread?
I have put a lot of thought into that and........ it's not something I really want to do.
I kind of waffled over here https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/5fu9ji/logical_increments_of_diy_gear_alpha/ and just listed good mixer's and recipes.
Also the flavor list I created has little bit of everything except tobacco but that 1st order thread also already exists by /u/t_mace as well as the megatobbacco tasting note thread that links to here and another sub I moderate (not lately). those links are at the bottom of the OP
Furthermore everytime I post a thread that talks about flavors without failure either:
- people nitpick eachother
- confirmation bias and brand loyalty cloud judgement
- someone gets hurt right in the feelz
- i get cursed at/insulted/called a shill
- or some one tries to tell me why they enjoy they taste of XYZ flavor i've never used also why it should be on my list.
- I get it y'all shit tastes good. Im not recommending it to ppl without it at least in my hands and tasting it. If you have suggestions thats fine make me a list of bakery flavors and I will use it w/ shout out if you have recipes and reviews to back it up otherwise no.
- or the biggest kicker: people tell me the way I am percieving taste is incorrect. then offer no insight or defend their fucking statement when I ask them. fucking keyboard warriors
Im not bitching about anyone in particular Im saying it though! ha
I always appreciate suggestions on how to make better content and the flavor discussions, not all are bad, this is a fine one. Its the trolls though I only have so much time and have to cut the cord at some point.
also I suck at bakery sorry for the rant
> cloud judgement
I see what you did there :)
I understand completely. Thanks for being overly thorough though! Makes sense considering it is a subjective subject.
Youre welcome and thanks for being understanding good question btw ha sorry i went off on a tangent.
All the comments here and on my other posts recently have been really civil. I've enjoyed all the comments but havent had time to get back to em all yet.
I've also noticed people acting way more politely on this sub lately.
I made most of those mistakes too. You know why? I only read through the sidebar once. It was like a walk of shame to be sitting there with a bunch of flavors and no recipes that could be made with them, reading the sidebar going, "ohhhh, right. I should be less stupid."
So far, the only things I bought that I regret are the 10, 50 and 100ml graduated cylinders. After my first mix, as I was cleaning them, I pulled my phone from my pocket and ordered a scale. Haven't had to clean them since.
haha we've all been there. I still buy random flavors but, I do research on most of them first to find out what I am getting into.
Occasionally I'll still buy random or less reviewed flavors but still try to minimize that per order so it all isn't bad.
I've never had a problem with the Nic in VG but I'm actually starting to think I might be one of the very few people allergic to VG, so I'm thinking about ordering a small bottle of PG and seeing if I handle it better (I've always vaped max VG so)
VG seems to exacerbate my allergies.
Ive vaped 100% PG for a few days and noticed my sinuses slightly clearing up. However I still had the same problems from TX allergies that ive had since I was like 10