From the email I just got:
IMPORTANT UPDATES
Here are some quick updates and explanations to current and future changes at Nicotine River. Our goal is to stay as complaint as possible while doing the best we can to serve our loyal clients. We have been notified by the DOT (Department of Transportation) and the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) of the following changes.
- Liquid nicotine with strengths of 60mg - 250mg are considered a Class 6.1 Toxic - Packing Group lll and have to be shipped exclusively as Hazmat by the DOT (Department of Transportation). These items CANNOT be shipped through USPS or Fedex under any circumstances and with no exceptions. These strengths are not allowed to be shipped express or overnight and UPS GROUND is the only option. What does this mean for you as a customer? You will need to plan your orders ahead as we are unable to expedite services any longer. Also, be aware that by adding one “Hazmat” tagged item to your cart means the only offered shipping method will be UPS Ground. If there are no Hazmat tagged items in your cart then it is business as usual.
To summarize this paragraph,
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60mg - 250mg liquid nicotine can only be shipped UPS GROUND with no exceptions
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Example: You can add 50 items in your cart but if 60mg 100mg or 250mg is apart of it the only shipping option that will show is UPS GROUND
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48mg liquid nicotine and below is business as usual and can be shipped any way you choose
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There are no additional Hazmat Fees in addition to UPS Ground Charge
- It has been brought to our attention that a tremendous amount of the flavors by the Flavor Apprentice and Capella that we resell are considered flammable in the eyes of the DOT and the FAA. Similar to the higher strengths of liquid nicotine, these flammable flavors are not allowed to be shipped express or overnight and UPS GROUND is the only option. Adding any “Hazmat” tagged flavor to your cart will show “UPS Ground” as the only shipping option. Please see the list of Hazmat Flavors HERE
*We are considering eliminating these flavors all together to save us from these troubles - please kindly respond with your thoughts!
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Flammable flavors can only be shipped UPS GROUND with no exceptions
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If there are no Hazmat tagged flavors in your cart that all normal shipping rates will show
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Example: You can add 50 flavors in your cart but if one flavor is marked as Flammable the only shipping option that will show is UPS GROUND
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There are no additional Hazmat Fees in addition to UPS Ground charge
THESE CHANGES ARE NOT OUR CHOICE. THESE ARE THE LAWS AND THE PENALTIES AND FINES ARE SEVERE FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE ABOVE SHIPPING GUIDELINES
IF THERE ARE OTHER VENDORS THAT RESELL THESE FLAVORS OR CARRYING THESE NICOTINE STRENGTHS AND HAVE NOT MADE THESE CHANGES YET - THEY WILL SOON OR GET HEAVILY FINED - TRUST US
FREE SHIPPING - We have discontinued the Free Shipping option for now on all levels until we can figure out what makes the most sense. These shipping changes have really thrown a wrench in alot of our plans.
WHOLESALE - All wholesale orders that are 500lbs and above will now successfully show negotiated freight rates with the option for a liftgate to streamline the ordering process.
PURILUM FLAVORS - Our River Flavors were initially something we slowly wanted to start offering. The first few flavors we created were not built from scratch, in other words from a "molecular level." To be honest, this bothered us. We realized that what we were doing wasn't that impressive. Going through this process made us realize that a majority of the businesses in this industry, claiming to manufacture their own flavors, couldn't possibly be doing what they were saying. Now, where does Purilum fit into all of this? Purilum is a company we have been working very closely with for a long time. They have an extremely large and sophisticated flavor house in North Carolina. You can check out a video of there business HERE
We believe there is still a lot of gaps left in this industry when it comes to flavors and we want to help bridge them to the best of our abilities. So, long story short, our website now reads "Purilum" instead of "River Flavors" because this is the company who manufacturing our flavors from scratch. We have no desire to lie and say we do them in house because we no longer do and we want everyone to know the level professionalism that is going into constructing these flavors. Every single flavor is free from all of the bad chemicals. They are EXCLUSIVELY sold at Nicotine River and are game changers!
FREE
NICOTINE SALTS - We are set to launching this new product mid to late January. Everyone has been asking us to carry these products and we are in the final stages of our formulation. Also, this product will not be as expensive as other similar products on the market. They will be relative to our current nicotine prices!
NICSHIELD - This is very similar to another product on the market that you may or may not have heard of. This product will also be released in the middle of January.
PG & VG – There will be price reductions in both categories. We have signed distribution deals with large manufacturers and because of this we want to pass the savings along to you.
As this industry matures more and more restrictions are coming down the pipeline. I think you all know that it has been my personal goal to serve all of you to the best of my ability. These changes are not what we want and Nicotine River will not be the only reseller feeling these effects if they are reselling or manufacturing the same items. Every reseller will soon know what we just went through.
Thank you everyone and Happy Holidays!
Grant Boatman
Owner
www.nicotineriver.com
805-791-3304
Only thing I could find on Nicotine in regards to DOT regulations is here: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title49-vol2/xml/CFR-2012-title49-vol2-subtitleB-chapI-subchapC.xml - I honestly can't make sense of it.
As a side, I happen to be a truck driver. I'm sorry, but this sounds to me like someone's blowing smoke up someone's (likely NicRiver's) ass. Small quantities of a "hazmat" item do not make a hazmat load, and as paints and other flammables/explosives (i.e. batteries [edit for clarity]) and aerosols amongst other "consumer grade" products can be shipped USPS no issue, so-called "flammable" flavoring agents should have no issue being shipped via USPS. Nicotine in strengths of 60+mg/mL, unless some lawmaker is being a dick (nothing new there) should also be fine.
Tell me JUUL isn't feeling like geniuses, 59mg/ml finished liquid and all. Seems like someone had some inside info!
More likely JUUL and other gas station brands either owned by or spun off from big tobacco are behind lobbying for this type of crackdown. They know it won't affect businesses, just the little guys.
Juul is not owned by big tobacco, nor spun off from it.
This "crackdown" is nothing more than the way hazardous materials have been shipped around the world for pretty much ever.
JUUL is a product of Pax Labs which is involved with Japan Tobacco International but is a private company. It has recently raised almost 50 million in additional funding from a number of both public and private investors. It is very far from a gas station brand and is expanding rapidly internationally.
List of flammable flavors:
https://www.nicotineriver.com/pages/flammable-flavors?utm_campaign=Flammable%2BFlavors_585adb64597ed778966cab91
TFA FLAMMABLE FLAVORS
- TFA Absinthe
- TFA Apple Candy
- TFA Black Tea
- TFA Blue Raspberry
- TFA Boysenberry
- TFA Brandy
- TFA Bubblegum Fruity
- TFA Chai Tea
- TFA Cherry
- TFA Cinnamon Red Hots
- TFA Cinnamon
- TFA Citrus Punch
- TFA Cola
- TFA Cola Syrup
- TFA Cranberry
- TFA Creme De Menthe
- TFA Cucumber
- TFA DK Tobacco
- TFA Dulce De Leche
- TFA Earl Grey Tea
- TFA Ginger Ale
- TFA Gingerbread
- TFA Granny Smith Apple
- TFA Grape Juice
- TFA Hawaiian Drink
- TFA Honeydew
- TFA Horchata
- TFA Horehound
- TFA Huckleberry
- TFA Hypno
- TFA Irish Cream
- TFA Jamaican Rum
- TFA Kentucky Bourbon
- TFA Key Lime
- TFA Lemon Flavor
- TFA Lime Essential Oil
- TFA Maple
- TFA Mojito
- TFA Orange Cream
- TFA Organic Strawberry
- TFA Peppermint
- TFA Pineapple
- TFA Pumpkin Spice
- TFA Quince
- TFA Rainbow Drops
- TFA Raspberry
- TFA Ripe Banana
- TFA Root Beer PG
- TFA Ry4 Type
- TFA Tutti - Frutti
- TFA Vanilla Bourbon
- TFA Violet Candy
- TFA Waffle
CAPELLA FLAMMABLE FLAVORS
- CAP Cherry Cola
- CAP Chocolate Raspberry
- CAP Cinnamon Coffee Cake
- CAP Cola
- CAP Concord Grape
- CAP Cranberry
- CAP Egg Nog
- CAP Espresso
- CAP Grape
- CAP Green Apple
- CAP Juicy Lemon
- CAP Lemon Lime
- CAP Orange Cream
- CAP Orange Mango
- CAP Root Beer
- CAP Strawberry Cream
- CAP Sweet Strawberry
- CAP Sweet Tangerine
- CAP White Coconut
At this point I might as well order from Carolina Extracts. Might as well put the money towards the top dollar.
That's been the general consensus here for quite a while.
True, but since I started DIY I ordered from Vapertek and love the nicotine so far (ordered two 120mls from them) so I never felt the need for the upgrade...Until after reading this today.
$27 for a 10ml to Massachusetts. God I hate the government..
Except that high concentration nicotine really is a hazardous substance.
Ecche, maybe to toddlers, I've dropped a dropper of 100 mg/ml on my tongue, no painful burning, no nicotine rush.
I feel like the fear is overblown.
hmm... so just a quick check
ECX still ships 100mg via USPS
Vaporstek still ships 100mg via USPS
MyFreedomSmokes still ships 100mg via USPS
CXT doesn't use USPS at all. (although they say they will ship to any US location winkwinknudgenudge
that's just what i could check quickly without having to register accounts. i'm not sure why nicotine river is the only one getting hit by this.
From the Email: > IF THERE ARE OTHER VENDORS THAT RESELL THESE FLAVORS OR CARRYING THESE NICOTINE STRENGTHS AND HAVE NOT MADE THESE CHANGES YET - THEY WILL SOON OR GET HEAVILY FINED - TRUST US
not saying i doubt them, just that there hasn't been any other reaction in the industry. this seems like something that would be more talked about. if it turns out to be the case i might finally get around to ordering from CXT eventually after all.
Most of the industry ignores postal regulations. They're required to disclose on the outside of the package that it contains liquid. In the 3 years I've been vaping, Ive seen that exactly 0 times. 3.4
Is this a restriction in only California for now? Paying $17 for shipping is crazy.
everywhere, it's a USPS thing not a state thing
That's what I find odd about this - it's not a USPS thing.
I've been asked whenever I've shipped anything boxed if there's any liquid inside or anything flammable. If there is (like perfume), then they tag it as such and ship it ground. The only "restriction" they have is it can't go via air. You can still use their priority boxes and pack everything up like normal, but then they ship it via ground transport.
I'm not seeing the big problem - as long as you tell the post office what you're shipping, they'll handle it appropriately.
It was $27.00 for UPS in my cart just now....
Which was more than the actual product.
/edit Went back today and the shipping was reasonable again down to $9.00.
Yeah, wtf?
I worked in a shipping dept for a short while and never saw standard ground shipping prices on such little weight so high. Average was 7 dollars.
Damn, I literally have a tab open with my card in hand, and only chose to use them because of the free shipping relative to what I'm buying. I'm assuming once I go to the checkout page, that won't be an option? Well, only one way to find out!
I just got done arguing with a well known online store for purchasing gear. (Mods, tanks, coils, batteries, etc) They wanted my driver's license and I basically told them I'd gladly order from somewhere else. I ordered a Sigelei 213, a silicone sleeve for it, and 2 batteries. My order somehow got held up despite the fact I had just ordered 3 RDAs and 2 batteries from them earlier the same day with no problem.
If what their customer support is telling me is correct, I'd say we should all stock up on gear while we still can. Christmas sales are just around the corner, and soon ignorant legislature will make it nearly impossible to attain anything vape related. In the meantime, I'll be stocking up on other sites while I still can.
Did I miss a memo? None of us without actual labs and ochem degrees should handle any >100mg nic preparations! Wtf?
How come? With proper precautions, it's better to use stronger concentrations as you can use less and save money.
At least a few months ago the mods here were very zealous in discouraging the use of anything over 100. The difference in danger goes up exponentially, open 250 is not the same danger as even 3x open 100s in an area. The nicotine is less and less happy to "stay put" in the solution as you go up. It's not unlike radioactive hazards, we do not want anyone even remotely new using anything like that. Pure nic needs a fume hood, scrubbers and a degree, many would argue that the same should be said even of 500mg/ml, realistically, even 200 is more than most home-gamers are equipped to handle. We don't need the press coverage because we're trying to save a little money, and higher levels oxidize faster anyway. If you're going that route, have a lab get pure nic and dilute it for you, still probably more cost-effective (maybe a grad student at a local uni needs some pizza money?).
Just an update from my own experience, Nicriver seems to have lowered the $27 standard ship fee to $9. Much more doable. I've been wanting to switch my Nic source from WL to Nicriver and this put a wrench in my plans with the $27 shipping. I can deal with $9. Ill just order all the crap I need that doesnt qualify for USPS shipping in one go.
I got another email from nic river today. They seem to have things figured out and business will go on as usual.
They still got rid of free shipping. :( Which sucks.
Yeah I noticed that. Just a case of figuring if it's still cheaper overall or more expensive than other vendors