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Article on The Language of Flavor
submitted almost 9 years ago by diyvapingMixologist

I've commented a few times that I have a website where I post articles, recipes, and flavor notes. http://diyeliquidmixology.com/tips-language-flavor-part-1/ I wanted to share my latest article (the first of a series of at least 3 articles) concerning the language of flavor. There is a lot to explore about this subject especially as it pertains to e-liquid since vaping is almost a combination of eating and smelling (both flavor and aroma qualities.) We are a new field that hasn't yet to really be explored by the flavor industry since we are kind of a black sheep with our tobacco connections -- something it seems that FEMA wants to distance itself from. But I think we can find a lot of helpful ways to communicate with each other and to create recipes using the language that is used in the perfumers industry, wine, whiskey,coffee, chocolate, honey, and maple syrup industries (all places where specific flavoring industry language is used.) For most mixers (especially new mixers) the language of aroma molecules is a whole new lexicon to learn.

I do see several of the contributors here using more of the language in their flavor notes -- which I think is extremely helpful to the community as a whole, but it is something we have to start teaching the new mixers, and even some of the older mixers who may not be up to speed with the language of the flavor industry. My goal is to share this information with the mixing community and the vaping community as a whole -- because even vapers who are still vaping commercial juice that someday may want to mix their own can benefit from being able to accurately describe the flavoring that they loved in their favorite commercial juices (all the clone requests are an example of this.)

Funny thing is I didn't write this article just for the benefit of the community, but for my own benefit as well, because sometimes I forget how complex the language is and fall into the descriptions that are less informative. It's for my own reference as well. I've still got a fair bit of research and writing to do on the topic, and I'm working on Part 2 now - should have it up next week.

Any feedback is always welcome. :)

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7 points
 
by T_Macealmost 9 years agoresident tobacco specialist

>delicate sensory tickling

Sounds kinky 6mg please.

I joke. This article is great tho. Dare I say.. Sidebar worthy? I really see the value of establishing a more universal language for vape tasting. Certainly, we see it in many of the reviews but the materials you offer at the end of the article can definitely help to broaden our lexicon.

Hope to see your follow up articles soon.

4 points
 
by ID10-Talmost 9 years ago

Excellent article! Thank you for sharing it. I just bookmarked all of your links for further study.

3 points
 
by ConcreteRiveralmost 9 years ago

Great article.

That's the challenge, right? Describing something well enough to give people an actual guide on not only how a concentrate tastes, but how it works as well.

I do slightly have to differ on the examination of the objective/subjective thing. I think mechanically, the mouthfeel should be universal, but there are some flavors that just don't work for some people. There are food-based examples like cilantro where people just have different sensitivities. I'm not sure why that wouldn't continue when people are blasting hot aroma molecules into their face-holes.

But yeah, thank you for that sharing that. Really good read and I look forward to seeing where you go with that.

2 points
 
by diyvapingalmost 9 years agoMixologist

I am going to cover a bit more about objective vs subjective in the next article along with the physical and psychological aspects of taste and smell and memory. It's a very fascinating subject. :)

2 points
 
by wh1skeyk1ngalmost 9 years agoThanks for reading this flair

Nice read, however, my only complaint is that the wheels/lists are pretty hard to read even when zoomed in 200-300%. Is there something you don't like about our flavor reviews? Do we need to incorporate new rules for the verbiage?

1 points
 
by diyvapingalmost 9 years agoMixologist

No, nothing wrong with how people write their flavor reviews as it is how they want to write them. The "delicate sensory tickling" was actually on a forum not reddit. :) I spend a lot more time on FB, and that is where a lot of the clone requests and people not able to describe what they are looking for is. I see a lot of people on here using the flavoring language and it is quite nice to see.

I put the wheels up there for folks to print out if they wanted to. When you click on them it will open full page picture, they are larger sized pictures when you're on a computer. I printed them out and have them in clear binder page holders so I won't spill on them -- cause I spill everything. lol Printed on full page paper they are readable.

1 points
 
by wh1skeyk1ngalmost 9 years agoThanks for reading this flair

Oh nice. I tried clicking them before and it didn't do anything. I can kind of read them now. Thanks!

1 points
 
by leapinglabratsalmost 9 years ago

Cheers, this is a topic I definitely need help with! Using a foreign language to describe something as abstract as taste, using terms I barely understand, is a pretty hopeless endeavor. I'm still not clear on the difference between sour and tart, as one of many examples. Looking forward to the rest of the articles!

3 points
 
by Sgmetalalmost 9 years ago

Your English and grammar is good enough that I wouldn't be able to tell you weren't a native speaker. So definitions for the words are:

  • tart:

      1. agreeably sharp or acid to the taste 
      2. marked by a biting, acrimonious, or cutting quality 
      3. sharp, sharp-tasting that is, bitter, acid or acidic, harsh, sour taste, just like a lemon.
    
  • sour:

      1. causing or characterized by the one of the four basic taste sensations that is produced chiefly by acids
      2. having the acid taste or smell of or as if of fermentation :  turned <sour milk> :  of or relating to fermentation
      3. Sour is one of the basic tastes. It is acid, lemon-like or vinegary, tart, bitter, acerbic. Sour food has a sharp
    

biting taste and, certainly, is not sweet.

The four basic flavors the definition mentions are Sweet, Salty, Sour, and Bitter.

I would say straight sour is more of a vinegar or milk that is going bad. Sweet and sour sauce in Asian food is a mixture of sweet syrup and a sour acid (vinegar). For the dairy category I'd use sour cream as an example for sour. In flavoring TFA Greek Yogurt as an example has a sour note to it similar to a dairy sour.

Tart is a subset of sour and I would mostly use it to describe more of a fruity sourness. Lemons and limes are tart. Citric Acid is very tart and sour. A green apple has a tart sourness to it. In food I think of tart as a mouthfeel along with the flavor of sour. But that's how I would personally describe it. I'm curious if others would agree.

Damn thinking about that and typing it out made me realize how correct OP is that I lack the right words to describe flavors. Very interested to read more of these articles.

2 points
 
by leapinglabratsalmost 9 years ago

Oh wow, thanks for that in-depth explanation! I think I have a pretty good grasp of the difference after this, I've never thought about sourness as having different characteristics depending on application.

Hehe thanks, I try, but ask me to do a flavor review and you'll see my limited vocabulary when it comes to describing impressions. It would benefit everyone to have a decent understanding of this topic and the terminology involved, great initiative OP!

2 points
 
by diyvapingalmost 9 years agoMixologist

I agree. That is pretty spot on to how I would classify it as well. Tart can also fall into the category of the bitter grouping too, as grape skins due to the tannins in them can give you a tart, bitter, and dry mouthfeel/taste. You'll find tart under the wine language and it is often something that is desirable when it is coupled with crisp, sharp notes and lighter floral fruity notes. Tart is kind of a subset of sour and bitter, crossing over into both areas. Often the sour candies are more tart than they are straight sour -- like lemon warheads. I'm always on the look out for some of the most sour types of candies and every now and then I come across some. There was a sour candy powder that I found in a candy shop, I literally had tears and could barely swallow it, it was way worse than sucking on a lemon. Highly acidic, biting, sharp, sour, and tart with strong apple, grape, and raspberry fruit flavors mixed in. To this day that is the most sour candy I've ever had. My glands in my neck were tingling for a good 10 minutes after one small mouthful, and I was drooling. Ahh..good times. lol I couldn't vape something like that though. I can eat it, but vaping something like that might be akin to vaping fruit flavored vinegar.

2 points
 
by Sgmetalalmost 9 years ago

That candy powder sounds wonderful. I'm a fan of sour and spicy. Of course I don't care for it in vape like I do food. Something that sour in a vape probably wouldn't be good for the lungs. I'd also say Tang or Tangy-ness is a good word to describe tart and sour. I came across this list while I was searching to put my post together. Not as detailed as some of the word list your article has, but it was helpful. Excellent post and I'm looking forward to the other 2 articles on it.

http://www.kyrene.org/cms/lib2/AZ01001083/Centricity/Domain/1671/Food%20words.pdf

1 points
 
by Wayne0almost 9 years ago

Great new article. I've been following you from your old site, and came across this new one a couple weeks ago. Slick, like your fancy scale and pipettes, but I digress. Great theme, I went and checked out pricing.

I'm glad you've found us, or us you. This will take reading a few times for it to fully sink in. I'll try and determine if those flavor wheels use the same 'color' wheel concepts.

1 points
 
by Paleone123almost 9 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I really like this article. It got me looking around on your site a bit. I know it's off topic, but I'd like to ask about your steeping article. You mention a number of times that "chemical reactions" occur (beyond homogenization). I've never been able to find any evidence to support this, beyond the apparent loss of light volatiles to head space. Do you have any information about what type of reactions occur and between what molecules? I'm genuinely interested because this is an assumption nearly everyone makes, but seems derive purely from "common sense". For example, are you aware of anyone doing a GC/MS analysis before and after a steep to see what changed?

1 points
 
by diyvapingalmost 9 years agoMixologist

I was able to find one article that discussed chemical reactions between flavorings-- I actually answered this exact question on fb as well:

"One example of a somewhat tricky flavor is cherry, mainly composed of benzaldehyde. It can react with alcohol or organic compounds within other flavors, to form acetals. Cherry is a popular flavor blended into juices and fruit punch, and Grover indicates some end-users prefer to mix their own flavors from different sources to maintain a proprietary position on their formula. However, if one company uses propylene glycol as a flavor carrier for strawberry and mixes this with a cherry flavor, this can spur a reaction over time."

Quote from this article : http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/Articles/2003/04/New-Frontiers-in-Flavor------Interactions.aspx

Not all flavors interact to create new components, but the flavors do interact with the base that they are in as higher entropy is achieved and the equilibrium of the mixture becomes balanced.

Another aspect is most likely decomposition. The flavoring molecules do decompose and break down over time as well.

I wish I had a GC/MS machine...I'd be all over that thing if I had the money for it. I'm totally a data junkie nerd. lol If I find any more information, which is not easy to source as a lot of this stuff is closely guarded by the flavor/aroma industry. But sometimes I can get google to cooperate and I find some little gems of info. I find all of it totally fascinating and want to learn more. I've read all the flavorist textbooks that were linked to from the other subreddit, but it's still not enough -- and I can't justifiably spend $500 on a textbook at this point. It's too bad there aren't any retired flavorists who could impart their knowledge on us self taught flavor addicts. :)

1 points
 
by Tiptup300almost 9 years ago

I love the abstraction & comparison of different sensories, Audio Soundwaves <> Notes <> Mids/Lows/Highs<> Dark Tones/Mid Tones/Highlights <> Colors <> Bass/Mid/Treble <> Infrared/Green/Blue <> Bottom/Middle/Top

Definitly have to read this. Thank you!

1 points
 
by diyvapingalmost 9 years agoMixologist

Part 2 is now up http://diyeliquidmixology.com/tips-the-language-of-flavor-part-2/

0 points
 
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3 points
 
by Parliamentttalmost 9 years ago

Yes bot, this post is asking where to get supplies.

2 points
 
by wh1skeyk1ngalmost 9 years agoThanks for reading this flair

I love it when people tell the automoderator off. Thanks for your input!

3 points
 
by Parliamentttalmost 9 years ago

On a more serious note, happy to see this article, been looking for something like this for a friend that just got into rebuildables and diy.

1 points
 
by Wayne0almost 9 years ago

I've seen full on apologies and arguments with the 'should of' bot. I love it

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